Wyo Task Force - Nonres Comments!

wy-tex

Very Active Member
May 2, 2016
983
190
SE Wyoming
So how about we just shut down all access to Federal owned lands. Maybe the State will allow resident hunting maybe not. That is where this type of thinking leads. Just be careful what you wish for. I hope you guys own thousands of acres so you will have a place to hunt.
Works for me, no NR on federal lands too if you go that route. Hope you have access lined up.
 

mallardsx2

Veteran member
Jul 8, 2015
2,936
1,763
^^ What a ridiculous statement.

Just like democrats, you residents will turn on each like wild dogs before its all said and done. lol I'll get the 5 year bowl of popcorn ready.

Truth be told I am actually surprised that we are even talking about this ridiculousness. I am surprised that it isn't all being done behind closed doors and then delivered on a platter for us to stew over. I know, I know, they "need public opinion" before they make a decision....lol
 
Last edited:

Hilltop

Veteran member
Feb 25, 2014
3,469
1,433
Eastern Nebraska
Define deception...if you're implying your preference points, you got exactly what you paid for.
Do you happen to remember how WG&F marketed the preference point program? Plenty is still out there to be found.

Here is a quote directly from the WG&F analysis report in 1996- ""A preference point system will ultimately guarantee an applicant a license." Upon reviewing the commission felt this statement was accurate in most instances. This was the general message communicated to the public encouraging them to purchase points.

Here is a quote from Brian Nesvik, WGFD Chief Game Warden several years back- “Preference points were originally intended to provide hunters with predictability and reasonable assurance that over time, their chances of drawing high demand areas would increase. Specifically for non-residents, they were intended to help hunters predict how often they would draw a tag for their favorite areas." The reasonable assurance that my odds will increase is being taken away. Under 90/10, my odds of drawing a moose tag are actually being reduced significantly, even if they go to a 50/50 split.

The business model may not have been originally built on deception but the current proposed changes would retroactively make it so. It was marketed as a way to guarantee you eventually draw a license.
 

Rich M

Active Member
Oct 16, 2012
425
190
So how about we just shut down all access to Federal owned lands. Maybe the State will allow resident hunting maybe not. That is where this type of thinking leads. Just be careful what you wish for. I hope you guys own thousands of acres so you will have a place to hunt.
Problem will be that when the govt closes federal land, it will be all federal land. Everywhere and I suspect it will come in our lifetimes.
 

Colorado Cowboy

Veteran member
Jun 8, 2011
7,258
2,515
79
Dolores, Colorado
What bothers me is that if this passes and then WG&F decides to expand it to elk, deer & antelope. I don't currently have any NR points for any of the big 5 and don't ever expect I'll hunt them in Wyoming. That being said, if they try to expand it to elk, deer & antelope, NR's with points will get a royal screwing for sure. I waited 15 years to draw a deer tag in a blue chip unit that I had max points for every year. Because of my age (79), I will never be able to draw it again. This will only get worse with fewer tags available for the NR draws.
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
690
406
^^ Thanks Hilltop. Great info!!
Most of us inherently know what Wyoming is proposing is wrong, but those quotes make it very clear.
Unfortunately, they'll probably do it anyway. Selfishness and greed are powerful emotions and tough to overcome.
No probably about it...its going to the legislature in February, and its going to pass.

Talk is to phase points out completely and back to random draw.
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
690
406
Do you happen to remember how WG&F marketed the preference point program? Plenty is still out there to be found.

Here is a quote directly from the WG&F analysis report in 1996- ""A preference point system will ultimately guarantee an applicant a license." Upon reviewing the commission felt this statement was accurate in most instances. This was the general message communicated to the public encouraging them to purchase points.

Here is a quote from Brian Nesvik, WGFD Chief Game Warden several years back- “Preference points were originally intended to provide hunters with predictability and reasonable assurance that over time, their chances of drawing high demand areas would increase. Specifically for non-residents, they were intended to help hunters predict how often they would draw a tag for their favorite areas." The reasonable assurance that my odds will increase is being taken away. Under 90/10, my odds of drawing a moose tag are actually being reduced significantly, even if they go to a 50/50 split.

The business model may not have been originally built on deception but the current proposed changes would retroactively make it so. It was marketed as a way to guarantee you eventually draw a license.
Sounds like you got exactly what Nesvik said...an increased chance of drawing a tag.

You'll still have a chance under 90-10 and a better chance the more points you have, that is if they aren't phased out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: shootbrownelk

ScottR

Eastmans' Staff / Moderator
Staff member
Feb 3, 2014
6,763
1,612
www.eastmans.com
Sounds like you got exactly what Nesvik said...an increased chance of drawing a tag.

You'll still have a chance under 90-10 and a better chance the more points you have, that is if they aren't phased out.
What would a phase out look like? I haven't watched the video from yesterday at this point.
 

Rich M

Active Member
Oct 16, 2012
425
190
I'm willing to give folks the benefit of the doubt.

We all got influenced somehow. We never thought there'd be more hunters than permits. We need to deal with it - maybe accept it is the best wording.

The preference point system is only good up until so many people apply. After that there are more applicants than available permits cause a backup.

Many NR folks apply to 10 different states every year and then make a fuss over which permits to hunt and which ones to return. If you can't hunt WY, you can hunt CO, NV, ID, wherever. So, it's not like the overall opportunity isn't there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: shootbrownelk

JimP

Veteran member
Mar 28, 2016
5,963
5,816
68
Gypsum, Co
Many NR folks apply to 10 different states every year and then make a fuss over which permits to hunt and which ones to return. If you can't hunt WY, you can hunt CO, NV, ID, wherever. So, it's not like the overall opportunity isn't there.
This all depends on what permits and tags we are talking about.

You will have slim pickings on deer tags in Colorado and Nevada, and Idaho is getting that way. Forget about pronghorn tags in any of the states. You can get a OTC elk tag, but forget about moose, sheep, and goats. Now Utah has a OTC bison hunt but you better be ready for some tough hunting.

As for drawing tags in multiple states in the same year where you have to decide which one to turn back in, yes that happens but not really that often
 
  • Wow
Reactions: shootbrownelk

Hilltop

Veteran member
Feb 25, 2014
3,469
1,433
Eastern Nebraska
I'm willing to give folks the benefit of the doubt.

We all got influenced somehow. We never thought there'd be more hunters than permits. We need to deal with it - maybe accept it is the best wording.

The preference point system is only good up until so many people apply. After that there are more applicants than available permits cause a backup.

Many NR folks apply to 10 different states every year and then make a fuss over which permits to hunt and which ones to return. If you can't hunt WY, you can hunt CO, NV, ID, wherever. So, it's not like the overall opportunity isn't there.
Rich, I understand where you are coming from. Some guys do that. However, it's not like I or anyone one else who has invested in Wyoming big 5 can just pick up and move those points to another state. Wyoming changing the game after buying over a decades worth of points is deception, misleading, whatever you want to call it. It isn't "fair" but I have come to accept it because frankly I don't have a choice. It doesn't make it right though. You statement of we all got influenced somehow paints a pretty broad stroke. The Wyoming Game and Fish are the ones who influenced me and many others. I'll quote again - WGFD Chief Game Warden several years back- “Preference points were originally intended to provide hunters with predictability and reasonable assurance that over time, their chances of drawing high demand areas would increase." Predictability... reasonable assurance... chance of drawing will increase. All being yanked out from under everyone who invested. Under the current system, I am within a few years of drawing. After the change, mathematically, I likely won't ever draw unless I win the random 1% or so chance.
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
690
406
What would a phase out look like? I haven't watched the video from yesterday at this point.
It's all over the map...they were talking the most about taking the top 4-5 preference point pools (those with 20+ poingt), keeping them in the preference side of the draw until they all drew sheep and moose.

Those in the remaining 21-22 pools below that would all be in a "bonus" point pool for the remainder of the tags.

Once all the top point pools clear...all bonus points.
 

Rich M

Active Member
Oct 16, 2012
425
190
This all depends on what permits and tags we are talking about.

You will have slim pickings on deer tags in Colorado and Nevada, and Idaho is getting that way. Forget about pronghorn tags in any of the states. You can get a OTC elk tag, but forget about moose, sheep, and goats. Now Utah has a OTC bison hunt but you better be ready for some tough hunting.

As for drawing tags in multiple states in the same year where you have to decide which one to turn back in, yes that happens but not really that often
Jim I do understand.

It all depends on what we each are looking for and the potential to obtain our heart's desires.

I'm a bad one to use as a comparison - hunted New England growing up and could expect to see a buck every 4 or 5 years if lucky. Haven't hung my hat on hunting our west more than a few times. Most folks would have quit long time ago if my hunting record was theirs. It is just what we do.
 

Rich M

Active Member
Oct 16, 2012
425
190
Rich, I understand where you are coming from. Some guys do that. However, it's not like I or anyone one else who has invested in Wyoming big 5 can just pick up and move those points to another state. Wyoming changing the game after buying over a decades worth of points is deception, misleading, whatever you want to call it. It isn't "fair" but I have come to accept it because frankly I don't have a choice. It doesn't make it right though. You statement of we all got influenced somehow paints a pretty broad stroke. The Wyoming Game and Fish are the ones who influenced me and many others. I'll quote again - WGFD Chief Game Warden several years back- “Preference points were originally intended to provide hunters with predictability and reasonable assurance that over time, their chances of drawing high demand areas would increase." Predictability... reasonable assurance... chance of drawing will increase. All being yanked out from under everyone who invested. Under the current system, I am within a few years of drawing. After the change, mathematically, I likely won't ever draw unless I win the random 1% or so chance.
Those long term points - many years of waiting and hoping...

Maybe they would allow folks to transfer (add) the points to another species? - maybe a migration elk or deer hunt to soften the blow of no moose/sheep/goat?

It isn't fair or right to change the rules and expect the folks who played by the rules to just suck it up. I totally agree.

My thoughts with the influenced thing is that we all had some point where we said - I want to do this. Mine was a book in 1978 about hunting diff species of critters in US. Mule deer and antelope caught my eye. Took 39 years for one and 41 years for the other. If I never go again, my goals have been accomplished. Still want to hunt antelope with a buck tag tho.
 

JimP

Veteran member
Mar 28, 2016
5,963
5,816
68
Gypsum, Co
Jim I do understand.

It all depends on what we each are looking for and the potential to obtain our heart's desires.

I'm a bad one to use as a comparison - hunted New England growing up and could expect to see a buck every 4 or 5 years if lucky. Haven't hung my hat on hunting our west more than a few times. Most folks would have quit long time ago if my hunting record was theirs. It is just what we do.
For non residents the odds of drawing a couple of good tags in one year are even slimmer.

I have however just put in for a point when my odds were close enough to draw a out of state tag that I really wanted over another tag that I could wait on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ore hunter