Wyo Task Force - Nonres Comments!

Steve O

Member
Apr 26, 2012
79
15
Michigan
Being a NR with more than 20 points sheep points, I’m going to go with false on that. IF you want to hunt in a unit with mostly wilderness or all the sheep country as wilderness so you are FORCED to hire a guide, there is a grain of truth to it but mostly it is 99.9% untruth. Not many of us NR have resident buddies that will take a couple weeks off to be a “resident guide” either.
 
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BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
690
406
Being a NR with more than 20 points sheep points, I’m going to go with false on that. IF you want to hunt in a unit with mostly wilderness or all the sheep country as wilderness so you are FORCED to hire a guide, there is a grain of truth to it but mostly it is 99.9% untruth. Not many of us NR have resident buddies that will take a couple weeks off to be a “resident guide” either.
You aren't forced to hire a guide, like you said, you just have to know the right residents.

Some of the units that can be drawn with less than max have sheep outside the wilderness as well.

Realistically, even most residents hire a guide for sheep, so not sure why you're all worked up over hiring one?
 
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Hilltop

Veteran member
Feb 25, 2014
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Eastern Nebraska
You make a good point - I'm not in the game. Saw my first bighorn rams in 2019 CO and they are something.

So, a NR with 20 points is holding out for the best areas only and not just 1 of say 12-15-20 permits they give NR annually? Guess just showing my ignorance about the subject.

If that's true, we turn and ask the guys who are "close" and gonna get screwed by this, if they would have hunted a lesser area if they had known the system was gonna implode. Or if they could get the lesser tag now, would they?
A lot of people are lowering area expectations now that they know the system will likely change. The point creep over the last few years in the non resident draw is obvious. People are trying to bail but there is nowhere near enough tags. My strategy has been to build points for a less desirable area. I was getting close to drawing before guys started burning higher points on the same tag I was chasing.
 
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JM77

Member
Apr 25, 2016
99
25
Casper, Wyoming
What it comes down to is if you are a Wyo resident do you want SIGNIFICANTLY better draw odds with a waiting period or are you happy with a 0 to 5% better chance of drawing a high demand limited tag with 90/10. You will likely continue to sit and wait for these tags with 90/10.

I certainly wish the Task Force could show Wyo res these spread sheets so they could visually see the differences....believe me, it's dramatic. If it were me and I was a Wyo res I would either figure out how to get these or possibly make a chart similar to mine that shows the draw odds comparing 90/10 vs waiting periods in my favorite units.

So if you are a Wyo res and a neighbor continues to draw limited tags while you sit at home you may want to consider a change. I can guarantee 90/10 won't improve your opportunity to draw high demand tags. You may get lucky but the odds are against you!
I really wonder if you believe what you are telling everyone about waiting periods? I have looked into waiting periods in the past and found little change to drawing odds in premium areas. Let me show you what I mean:
In a popular Wyoming elk area the resident draw odds this year were 4.9%. With a 5 year waiting period imposed(assuming the waiting period takes you completely out of the system for any LQ area) next year's odds would be 5.2%, followed by 5.5%, 5.8%, and finally 6% where the odds become stagnant because those that drew in 2021 are back in.

In other words jimss, this cure all method would change the odds in this elk area from 4.9% to 6% even. WOW! A whopping 1.1% increase in odds assuming no new hunters apply. This is the idea that is turning heads at the task force? Yeah right, dramatic!
 
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Steve O

Member
Apr 26, 2012
79
15
Michigan
You aren't forced to hire a guide, like you said, you just have to know the right residents.

Some of the units that can be drawn with less than max have sheep outside the wilderness as well.

Realistically, even most residents hire a guide for sheep, so not sure why you're all worked up over hiring one?
I’m not against hiring a guide as much as I used to be…

When I looked into guides for areas that were not 1-5, I did not have much luck and the ones that would return my calls/email were pushing me to Areas 1-5.

If anyone has any ideas there is nothing I want more than to use my 20+ WY sheep points.
 

gonhunting247

Veteran member
Jan 21, 2014
1,009
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I’m not against hiring a guide as much as I used to be…

When I looked into guides for areas that were not 1-5, I did not have much luck and the ones that would return my calls/email were pushing me to Areas 1-5.

If anyone has any ideas there is nothing I want more than to use my 20+ WY sheep points.
Good luck when you go. I dropped my points at about 10 because I had to choose moose or sheep due to too much cash for both points. I always wondered if I'd regret it, but it may have actually been a good choice looking back now. Still a little bummed to take away the potential opportunity :). Maybe someday I'll draw UT, NV or get lucky in my home state of OR. I'll have 19 for moose this year, but it doesn't look too promising with the current activity.
It will definitely be a dream hunt when you go. I look forward to pics and stories someday soon.
Maybe one of the WY guys would go with you to let you meet the guide requirements, but still let you have the opportunity to experience a more diy style hunt. Good luck
 
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JimP

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Mar 28, 2016
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Some of you that really want to hunt moose and don't want to wait a lot of years for a stateside hunt should check out BC and Alberta. Their hunts really arn't that expensive when you compare them to a guided hunt in in the lower 48. I've been on 2 and both were great. It's been a long time ago, but I'd go again.
I've been saying this for years.

By the time you invest 20 or so years into the point game and as you get older your health may start to decline so if you want to hunt them head north.

The real expensive moose hunts are going to be up in the Yukon or some of the areas in Alaska where they have huge moose. But for a good old shiras moose British Colombia holds some fine animals, and you can go hunt them after deciding the previous year to go.

And that is why I am headed back to Africa in 2022
 
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gonhunting247

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Jan 21, 2014
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Some of you that really want to hunt moose and don't want to wait a lot of years for a stateside hunt should check out BC and Alberta. Their hunts really arn't that expensive when you compare them to a guided hunt in in the lower 48. I've been on 2 and both were great. It's been a long time ago, but I'd go again.
Thanks CC,
I figured if possible I'd hang in and use my investment in WY points. I can always go to AK and I do, but kind of hate to give up on Shiras in WY. I'm kind of stubborn that way :). I've never went guided and probably won't if it is an option. Time may change my mind though, who knows :).
 
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Hilltop

Veteran member
Feb 25, 2014
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Eastern Nebraska
Some of you that really want to hunt moose and don't want to wait a lot of years for a stateside hunt should check out BC and Alberta. Their hunts really arn't that expensive when you compare them to a guided hunt in in the lower 48. I've been on 2 and both were great. It's been a long time ago, but I'd go again.
I would agree- that's the best options for the guys who have moose on their bucket list.

I have looked at those options extensively. I almost booked a hunt but in the end I really didn't like the style of hunts I was finding. Some in the Peace River were in my budget but success rates varied quite a bit, even with the best outfitters I researched. Further south I found what appeared to be slam dunk hunts in the farm country. Those looked great until my research found that they are pretty much a road hunt- drive around, get out of the truck and shoot your moose. Just didn't feel right spending 6-8k for that.

In the end I may book a hunt up there but I'll try in Wyoming for a few more years. I did shoot a moose in my teens so, if it never happens, I'm ok with that.
 

Bonecollector

Veteran member
Mar 9, 2014
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I would agree- that's the best options for the guys who have moose on their bucket list.

I have looked at those options extensively. I almost booked a hunt but in the end I really didn't like the style of hunts I was finding. Some in the Peace River were in my budget but success rates varied quite a bit, even with the best outfitters I researched. Further south I found what appeared to be slam dunk hunts in the farm country. Those looked great until my research found that they are pretty much a road hunt- drive around, get out of the truck and shoot your moose. Just didn't feel right spending 6-8k for that.

In the end I may book a hunt up there but I'll try in Wyoming for a few more years. I did shoot a moose in my teens so, if it never happens, I'm ok with that.
I did exactly this. Moose in 2 yrs. I can’t wait!
First, my AK caribou this fall.
 

jimss

Active Member
Jun 10, 2012
213
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IMG_5683.jpg

JM, I agree with you that the toughest elk units in Wyo to draw may not improve draw odds considerably with any system but waiting periods still have slightly better odds than 90/10. Take a look at how draw odds improve with a waiting period for unit 7 and 58. I think A lot of Wyo res would be tickled to death having the opportunity to draw very good limited tags every few years with waiting periods vs poor odds drawing with 90/10. The same thing is true for deer and antIMG_5369.jpg

Take a look at draw odds for 57, 58, and 61 antelope. Holy smokes those are impressive odds for some of the best antelope units in Wyo
 

Hilltop

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Feb 25, 2014
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That's assuming no new applicants move into the draw after the change. That wouldn't be reality and the wait for areas like 61 would be much longer. Wyoming residents won't go for the waiting period. If I lived there, neither would I honestly. Wyo residents want to apply for whatever area they want and if they don't draw they get their 2nd choice in a decent area. They get to hunt every year and get to apply for their desired areas every year. Guessing you might be the same if you lived there.

90/10 is extremely likely. I think we would be best served spending our time lobbying for fairness with purchased preference points. I know one group has a lawyer looking into how the points were marketed and sold to see if a class action lawsuit would be in order. I think Wyoming knows this and is figuring out the best way to get it done while protecting against legal action. Level headed suggestions on how to treat non residents who have invested is our only hope imo. 50/50 as Buzz has discussed isn't terrible but I would much rather see an option to roll points to other species. I think a lot of guys with big 5 would take the deal.
 
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dan maule

Very Active Member
Jan 3, 2015
778
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That's assuming no new applicants move into the draw after the change. That wouldn't be reality and the wait for areas like 61 would be much longer. Wyoming residents won't go for the waiting period. If I lived there, neither would I honestly. Wyo residents want to apply for whatever area they want and if they don't draw they get their 2nd choice in a decent area. They get to hunt every year and get to apply for their desired areas every year. Guessing you might be the same if you lived there.

90/10 is extremely likely. I think we would be best served spending our time lobbying for fairness with purchased preference points. I know one group has a lawyer looking into how the points were marketed and sold to see if a class action lawsuit would be in order. I think Wyoming knows this and is figuring out the best way to get it done while protecting against legal action. Level headed suggestions on how to treat non residents who have invested is our only hope imo. 50/50 as Buzz has discussed isn't terrible but I would much rather see an option to roll points to other species. I think a lot of guys with big 5 would take the deal.
I agree with what you are saying, I totally understand the Wyoming residents wanting their peace of the pie. Especially since the number of tags available have been declining in virtually every species except elk. I just think it’s pretty crappy not to at least make an attempt to come up with something for the long time NR preference point holders. It sounds like that is being discussed which is a positive development. It’s a sucky situation for NR but if I were a Wyoming resident I would be pushing for the same thing. I would also acknowledge that something should be done to ease the pain for NR pp holders.
 

Kodiak32

Active Member
Dec 10, 2013
248
19
Evergreen, Colorado
As a NR, I have a lot of money invested in WY but I hope the 90-10 passes. Then, I hope CO has the balls to follow suit, but they won’t. CO is all about the money. At the end of the day, no matter how you slice it, in each state residents deserve the best opportunity and NR should be thankful for any opportunities they get. In some cases it sucks but if you don’t like it, move!
 
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wy-tex

Very Active Member
May 2, 2016
983
190
SE Wyoming
Yeah, well jimss we do not want waiting periods for our LQ licenses. I'm betting the Task Force will listen to residents on that while pondering how to treat the NR with PP.
I want leftover opportunities and am pushing for that. No rollover of resident tags into the NR draw, put them in a leftover draw for all.

I find it really hard to believe that the WG&F will shaft NR hunters with PP. Perhaps bonus PP will come into play , but they will figure out something without just saying thanks for your money now no tags for you.
 
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RICMIC

Veteran member
Feb 21, 2012
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I've stayed out of this discussion since I have nothing invested in WY other than antelope/deer/elk. I do buy the Super Tags, but that is a straight up raffle. Hilltops musing on rolling NR points into other species would completely change the odds that are already becoming out of reach for us older hunters. I started hunting in WY in 2009 when a GEN H deer tag took 0-1 pts., and a GEN elk tag was the same. I have been able to hunt for something every year by hunting one or the other (plus some CO hunts). It now takes 4+ for those tags, meaning at least a 5 year wait. Non-residents don't get a vote, and that is what it should be. That doesn't mean that I have to like it. Carry on.