Wyo Task Force - Nonres Comments!

jimss

Active Member
Jun 10, 2012
216
88
If you are a concerned nonres and have years of applications and $ invested into the Wyo pref pt system....especially for the Big 5 species you can submit comments directly to the Task Force for the July 8th meeting. You must do this by 5:00 pm on July 6th!

90:10 would cut nonres limited tags in 1/2 and require twice as long for ALL nonres to draw tags. For the Big 5 this would likely mean that those that don't have max pts or close to max pts may never draw tags. Nonres that have invested years and $ into a draw system will suddenly have the light switch flipped off with these changes!

The more nonres willing to comment, the more attention will be given to nonres at this and other meetings!. There are no nonres members on the Task Force even though nonres stand to loose so much with decisions made! Sending comments is the only voice you have unless you attend one of their meetings.

Here's a link to submit your comments: https://sites.google.com/wyo.gov/wyomingwildlifetaskforce/home/public-input
 

jimss

Active Member
Jun 10, 2012
216
88
JM, It's obvious the task force is aware that nonres are not in favor of 90/10. The scary part is that nonres have so much on the line but have 0 voice as members on the task force. The only thing nonres can do is voice their opinion in public comments sections via email.

Be sure to send in your comments before the July 6 deadline! Here's a link to submit your comments: https://sites.google.com/wyo.gov/wyomingwildlifetaskforce/home/public-input

If you live close to Cheyenne there also is a meeting there on July 6:
 
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BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
692
412
The reason behind the task force is to increase Resident opportunity.

Secondly, the task force is well aware of the allocations in surrounding states for sheep, moose, goat, bison. In EVERY state those allocations for those species are no higher than 10%. Some, like moose in ND, are 100% allocated to Residents, with no tags being offered to non residents.

The task force realizes that Residents of Wyoming want to be treated the same as Residents in CO, MT, UT, NM, AZ, ID when it comes to Resident allocations in those states. Lets get one thing straight, 90-10 for the big 5 is totally fair and reasonable.

The only discussion left is whether or not to make all of the big 5 once in a lifetime for both R and NR hunters (I think they should be). I'm sure that will be sorted out at the upcoming meeting that I'll be attending in Casper on the 8th.
 

dan maule

Very Active Member
Jan 3, 2015
781
839
Upper Michigan
Wait till they get to Elk, Deer and Antelope and then see what happens. I do agree with Buzz on the Big 5.
I agree that every state should take care of their residents first and the 90/10 to me actually seems reasonable. But, a lot of nonresidents invested a lot of years and money in a system that they were told would one day result in a hunting opportunity. (I know your comeback BUZZ let’s just agree to disagree). If the folks pushing this plan would spend a little of their time working out something equitable for the nonresidents with close to max points it would sit a lot better. I personally think that the real answer is to harvest more predators so that there would potentially be more opportunities for both residents and nonresidents. It would really be nice to see hunters coming together to pressure the department of wildlife to increase quotas for predators, instead of fighting over the animals the predators leave behind.
 
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BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
692
412
I agree that every state should take care of their residents first and the 90/10 to me actually seems reasonable. But, a lot of nonresidents invested a lot of years and money in a system that they were told would one day result in a hunting opportunity. (I know your comeback BUZZ let’s just agree to disagree). If the folks pushing this plan would spend a little of their time working out something equitable for the nonresidents with close to max points it would sit a lot better. I personally think that the real answer is to harvest more predators so that there would potentially be more opportunities for both residents and nonresidents. It would really be nice to see hunters coming together to pressure the department of wildlife to increase quotas for predators, instead of fighting over the animals the predators leave behind.
If you can provide a shred of proof that NR's were ever told, "a point system would result in a hunting opportunity"...I'll agree with you. That was never the case...ever. Just the same as all the States I have hundreds of points for, I was not promised a tag and there's many I have never, and probably never will receive a tag for. I went in eyes wide open, its a personal problem if WY NR's feel entitled to a tag, they arent. What I was provided was what I paid for, points...the same as NR's to Wyoming, that simple.

As to your predator complaints, R and NR can both hunt bears OTC here. Wolves in all but a handful of areas don't even require a permit and the season is open 24-7-365. Lion tags are OTC for both R and NR's and some areas offer 2 tags per hunter.

Wyoming has some of, if not the most liberal predator hunting opportunities of any state I've ever hunted...what more do you suggest we do?

We cant force more people to hunt predators here and not sure how we offer more opportunity than OTC and open seasons with no license requirements or closed seasons for wolves in 75% of the state...

There are much bigger fish to fry than predators that are depleting deer, pronghorn, moose and sheep here (elk are doing better than they ever have).
 

dan maule

Very Active Member
Jan 3, 2015
781
839
Upper Michigan
If you can provide a shred of proof that NR's were ever told, "a point system would result in a hunting opportunity"...I'll agree with you. That was never the case...ever. Just the same as all the States I have hundreds of points for, I was not promised a tag and there's many I have never, and probably never will receive a tag for. I went in eyes wide open, its a personal problem if WY NR's feel entitled to a tag, they arent. What I was provided was what I paid for, points...the same as NR's to Wyoming, that simple.

As to your predator complaints, R and NR can both hunt bears OTC here. Wolves in all but a handful of areas don't even require a permit and the season is open 24-7-365. Lion tags are OTC for both R and NR's and some areas offer 2 tags per hunter.

Wyoming has some of, if not the most liberal predator hunting opportunities of any state I've ever hunted...what more do you suggest we do?

We cant force more people to hunt predators here and not sure how we offer more opportunity than OTC and open seasons with no license requirements or closed seasons for wolves in 75% of the state...

There are much bigger fish to fry than predators that are depleting deer, pronghorn, moose and sheep here (elk are doing better than they ever have).
So what else is depleting the sheep, deer, moose and the antelope populations?
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
692
412
So what else is depleting the sheep, deer, moose and the antelope populations?
Over hunting, disease, migration corridors being disrupted, energy development, habitat loss, habitat degradation, habitat fragmentation, conifer encroachment, climate change, late succession in plant communities, drought, highway mortality, poaching, weed infestations, easy access, ATV's, long range rifles, spotting scopes, better clothing, lighter back packing equipment, high numbers of outfitters, 400,000 more people on planet earth today than yesterday at this time, etc. etc. to name a few.

But lets play pretend that its all predator issues....

That said, I agree with your basic argument that we need to solve those issues and increase wildlife populations...which would mean more opportunity for both R and NR's.
 

jimss

Active Member
Jun 10, 2012
216
88
Wyo residents have never had a pref point system for deer, elk, and antelope and paid a penny to support the WG&F through pref pt fees that nonres have been paying for up to 25 years! Take a look at who's funding WG&F revenue. It definitely isn't the Wyoming residents! 77% of the total license and pref pt revenue paid by nonres vs only 17% by residents. I didn't notice it until now but the 17% Wyo resident revenue even includes fishing license sales! Doesn't it seem a little odd that Wyo res want to cut nonres limited licenses in 1/2?

Res_Vs_Non.jpg
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
692
412
Wyo residents have never had a pref point system for deer, elk, and antelope and paid a penny to support the WG&F through pref pt fees that nonres have been paying for up to 25 years! Take a look at who's funding WG&F revenue. It definitely isn't the Wyoming residents! 77% of the total license and pref pt revenue paid by nonres vs only 17% by residents. I didn't notice it until now but the 17% Wyo resident revenue even includes fishing license sales! Doesn't it seem a little odd that Wyo res want to cut nonres limited licenses in 1/2?

View attachment 35217
I smell rags burning...its your pants on fire Sebastian.

Residents have been buying points for moose and sheep for over 25 years....also wayyyy more Residents buy conservation stamps than NR's.

Not to mention, we fund all the GF budget that isn't covered by license sales (45% of 80+ million).
 

jimss

Active Member
Jun 10, 2012
216
88
Buzz, how much pref pt revenue have Wyo res contributed for deer elk and antelope to the WG&F the past 15 years?

Buzz, What is the pref pt fee for res sheep and moose? How about nonres? Wyo res pref pt fees are $7 each! Nonres pay $150 each!

Buzz, how many nonres vs res applied for sheep and moose last year?

Buzz how many nonres will quit applying for sheep and moose pref pts with 90/10?

Buzz, how much $ did nonres vs res contribute for these pref pt fees?

Res Conservation stamp revenue is chunk change compared to revenue losses due to 90/10!
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
692
412
Buzz, how much pref pt revenue have Wyo res contributed for deer elk and antelope to the WG&F the past 15 years?

Buzz, What is the pref pt fee for res sheep and moose? How about nonres? Wyo res pref pt fees are $7 each! Nonres pay $150 each!

Buzz, how many nonres vs res applied for sheep and moose last year?

Buzz how many nonres will quit applying for sheep and moose pref pts with 90/10?

Buzz, how much $ did nonres vs res contribute for these pref pt fees?

Res Conservation stamp revenue is chunk change compared to revenue losses due to 90/10!
Sebastian...who cares?
 

D_Dubya

Active Member
Aug 8, 2012
359
674
South Texas
Buzz, how much pref pt revenue have Wyo res contributed for deer elk and antelope to the WG&F the past 15 years?

Buzz, What is the pref pt fee for res sheep and moose? How about nonres? Wyo res pref pt fees are $7 each! Nonres pay $150 each!

Buzz, how many nonres vs res applied for sheep and moose last year?

Buzz how many nonres will quit applying for sheep and moose pref pts with 90/10?

Buzz, how much $ did nonres vs res contribute for these pref pt fees?

Res Conservation stamp revenue is chunk change compared to revenue losses due to 90/10!
I don’t think the revenue argument really has much merit for any state - they could double or triple the NR price and still sell every single NR Moose, Sheep, and Goat tag every year and a pile of preference points to boot. I wouldn’t say I’m in favor of 90-10 since I’m a non-resident, but I couldn’t fathom how a Wyoming resident wouldn’t be in favor of it - and ultimately they elect the representatives who make the laws and appoint the people who make the rest of the decisions. It’s their game, we play by their rules or stay home.
This all boils down to the complex factors that Buzz listed earlier - all of which mean fewer animals, more hunters. Nothing to take personally, just the facts and it’s up to each individual to figure out if they want to stay in the point chase or not.
Talk about first world problems…”I can’t get the Wyoming vacation/adventure hunt I want”…God bless the USA.
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
692
412
I don’t think the revenue argument really has much merit for any state - they could double or triple the NR price and still sell every single NR Moose, Sheep, and Goat tag every year and a pile of preference points to boot. I wouldn’t say I’m in favor of 90-10 since I’m a non-resident, but I couldn’t fathom how a Wyoming resident wouldn’t be in favor of it - and ultimately they elect the representatives who make the laws and appoint the people who make the rest of the decisions. It’s their game, we play by their rules or stay home.
This all boils down to the complex factors that Buzz listed earlier - all of which mean fewer animals, more hunters. Nothing to take personally, just the facts and it’s up to each individual to figure out if they want to stay in the point chase or not.
Talk about first world problems…”I can’t get the Wyoming vacation/adventure hunt I want”…God bless the USA.
Worth reading at least twice...well said.
 

Hilltop

Veteran member
Feb 25, 2014
3,478
1,466
Eastern Nebraska
As a non resident I have come to terms with 90/10 and the big 5. It's inevitable... I do think we see a change in the draw process as well though. To keep PP revenue up, a bonus system will be about the only way to maintain interest.