Wyo Task Force - Nonres Comments!

Turbodude

Member
Oct 17, 2017
118
89
Red side of Ca
Why don't you just build a wall around your state & keep everyone out. I think thats what you really want. But guess what, I am going to move there just to piss you off-FO
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
690
406
Why don't you just build a wall around your state & keep everyone out. I think thats what you really want. But guess what, I am going to move there just to piss you off-FO
Pro tip...you're 20 years too late.

This is America...knock yourself out.

Don't forget your long underwear and snow shovel...and bring a wad of cash, housing is through the roof. House next door sold for $800K 2 years ago, one a street over just sold for over $900K. Never would have believed I'd be living in a near million dollar neighborhood when we built this place 6 years ago...in of all places, Laramie.
 
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RICMIC

Veteran member
Feb 21, 2012
1,638
1,135
Two Harbors, Minnesota
Pro tip...you're 20 years too late.

This is America...knock yourself out.

Don't forget your long underwear and snow shovel...and bring a wad of cash, housing is through the roof. House next door sold for $800K 2 years ago, one a street over just sold for over $900K. Never would have believed I'd be living in a near million dollar neighborhood when we built this place 6 years ago...in of all places, Laramie.
I don't get it either Buzz. I've been looking at real estate in WY for almost 20 years, and it appears to be going the way much of the west has.......what I would call Californicated. I was all set to move to northern Idaho after my truck broke down while on a family trip around 1985, and I fell in love with the countryside. I was a police officer, and my wife was a nurse, so I checked out the job situation. The jobs were there, the pay was crap, and the real estate market was completely unaffordable. It makes it very tough on the locals who have roots in the state and don't come from somewhere else with wads of cash in their pocket.
 

go_deep

Veteran member
Nov 30, 2014
2,515
1,627
Wyoming
Kind of a different conversation than the OP, but I can't help but post this. Just to the east of me a little ways a small 900 square foot 3 bed, 1 bath, no basement, no garage, and it literally needs to be gutted inside and out house came up for sale a few weeks ago. I thought maybe I could get a reasonably priced home for a rental being that I can remodel it myself, nope $250k for a place that needs to be gutted inside and out. I truly have no clue how a young couple earning normalish wages could afford a house right now, I don't know if I could afford my house right now if I moved here today.
 
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BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
690
406
Kind of a different conversation than the OP, but I can't help but post this. Just to the east of me a little ways a small 900 square foot 3 bed, 1 bath, no basement, no garage, and it literally needs to be gutted inside and out house came up for sale a few weeks ago. I thought maybe I could get a reasonably priced home for a rental being that I can remodel it myself, nope $250k for a place that needs to be gutted inside and out. I truly have no clue how a young couple earning normalish wages could afford a house right now, I don't know if I could afford my house right now if I moved here today.
I get it...it's the same way here...I know I couldn't afford my house in today's market. I could afford to live in my rental...maybe.
 
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RICMIC

Veteran member
Feb 21, 2012
1,638
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Two Harbors, Minnesota
Home mortgage rates were 8 1/2 to 9 1/2 percent for many years, and my first mortgages were in that area for my first 3 homes. I had a 10% fixed mortgage for the first new house that I built, and was considering lowering the rate with a variable rate. That was in 1979, and it was a good thing that I didn't. I have a relative who lost his business when that rate went up to over 18%. On a 250K loan that is 45K a year just in interest. My grandson is pre-approved by the bank at just over 3%, and I warned him to not even consider getting a variable loan. Inflation is already hitting us hard, and those of you under 50 have not raised families while enduring its effect.
 

go_deep

Veteran member
Nov 30, 2014
2,515
1,627
Wyoming
Home mortgage rates were 8 1/2 to 9 1/2 percent for many years, and my first mortgages were in that area for my first 3 homes. I had a 10% fixed mortgage for the first new house that I built, and was considering lowering the rate with a variable rate. That was in 1979, and it was a good thing that I didn't. I have a relative who lost his business when that rate went up to over 18%. On a 250K loan that is 45K a year just in interest. My grandson is pre-approved by the bank at just over 3%, and I warned him to not even consider getting a variable loan. Inflation is already hitting us hard, and those of you under 50 have not raised families while enduring its effect.
Watched a lot of land and houses get foreclosed on after 9/11 because of the 5 year ARM. It can be a very dangerous thing, banks general don't offer a product they're not going to win on a high amount of the time.
 

Rich M

Active Member
Oct 16, 2012
425
190
Home mortgage rates were 8 1/2 to 9 1/2 percent for many years, and my first mortgages were in that area for my first 3 homes. I had a 10% fixed mortgage for the first new house that I built, and was considering lowering the rate with a variable rate. That was in 1979, and it was a good thing that I didn't. I have a relative who lost his business when that rate went up to over 18%. On a 250K loan that is 45K a year just in interest. My grandson is pre-approved by the bank at just over 3%, and I warned him to not even consider getting a variable loan. Inflation is already hitting us hard, and those of you under 50 have not raised families while enduring its effect.
Think we paid 8% on our home, then refinanced twice - 5-6% and 3.5%. That's why the values are so high - they don't value the property but how much you can afford to pay.

Imagine if the 3% interest rates we now have went up to 6%... Those pricey homes would have to be adjusted downward so that folks would buy them. A mortgage allowance is pretty much fixed based on your job and living expenses.
 

Yell Co AR Hunter

Very Active Member
Dec 10, 2015
690
402
Yell County Arkansas
Small town economies in WY and CO will continue to survive and prosper no matter what allocation of R and NR tags there are...just a fact. Fishing, hiking, bird watching, wildlife watching, camping, skiing, snowmobiling, atv riding...all are much bigger economic drivers than hunting...check the numbers you like to throw around.

You're over-playing your hand Sebastian...you aren't bluffing anyone with the rags your holding.
I know that I for one have spent several thousand dollars in Wyoming. Truth is with out the draw of the hunt. Wyoming would have got none of my money from two family vacations. I feel most of these people either have or plan to hunt at some point. Take away the chance to hunt and many small towns will feel the loss. Wyoming is a great state, but take away the chance to hunt it and the money will decrease more than you give credit for. Who the heck you think all these people got the idea to visit from? Well I think non-resident hunters. I could be wrong though. Anyone else vacation and spend money In Wyoming because of hunting?
 

wy-tex

Very Active Member
May 2, 2016
983
190
SE Wyoming
We get tons of tourists that don't or never have hunted. My decision to move here was based on vacations long before I started hunting.
Yes, having folks come up to hunt does encourage visits by their non hunting family but we'll have plenty of non hunters up here all summer to take up the slack.
We get billions($) from tourists each year. Hunters are a valuable economic factor but not near what tourism brings in. Their numbers are limited every year, tourism does not have that limitation.
 
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Granby guy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2012
305
119
Grand Lake, Colorado
One thing about Colorado is that you can still show up and purchase a OTC elk tag while you are building points for a quality unit.

All DWR's are having growing pains trying to figure out how to get the most money out of non residents and residents alike.
And that is the problem. Colorado needs to stop selling the OTC elk tags. NR should not be allowed to build points while hunting OTC licenses. This would reduce point creep because they won’t be able to have their cake and eat it too.The crowding is outrageous and is dominated by NR. So something has to give if hunting is ever going to improve here.
 
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Granby guy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2012
305
119
Grand Lake, Colorado
Conrad,
You might have some valid points, but you’ll have a better chance of convincing others if you use facts to back up your statements.
You just said, “ This is not fact but in my opinion …” and then you wrote “FACT” at the end. I’m sorry but that’s still just your opinion.
So you must thoroughly enjoy joining the orange army. Why would you not support taking care of the residents first and improve the hunting in our home state first? The only way that can be accomplished is by making CO LQ for all species with favor given to residents just like the task force is doing for the residents of Wyoming. I don’t see a problem with what Wyoming residents are requesting.
 

Granby guy

Active Member
Nov 5, 2012
305
119
Grand Lake, Colorado
Buzz, your comments carry 0 weight about Colo. How many RFW tags were issued to nonres....about 2 or 3! Both res and nonres have worse draw odds due to upfronting license fees being removed.

Buzz how many nonres tags are issued in Colo to nonres for limited elk, antelope, and deer? Last time I checked it was 20 to 35%. How about OTC for elk? Pretty good deal for nonres in Colo if you ask me.

Buzz, I'm sure if 90/10 passes for deer, elk, and antelope in Wyo it will give Colo momentum to do the same in Colo. Even though I'm a Colo res I believe that would be a big mistake. Going 90/10 in Colo won't increase my draw odds that much but will definitely screw nonres that have been applying for years for pref pts. It will also have significant revenue losses to both the CPW and small town communities. The small towns in Western Colo revolted against cutting nonres tags a few years ago because they understand the $ loss. It's funny that Wyo small town business owners haven't done the same!
You are correct, what Buzz says about CO tag allocation is irrelevant just like my opinions about how Wyoming manages their allocation are irrelevant as well.
I bought points just like many other NR did and I did so try and increase my CHANCE of eventually drawing a tag in Wyoming. I never looked at points as something that guaranteed me a tag in the future. If Wyoming establishes a 90/10 split then congratulations to the residents there for improving hunting opportunities for themselves and their families. I will continue my pursuit of a license with a 90/10 split because I enjoy having the opportunity to possibly draw one day. If the draw odds decrease someday then I will have to evaluate it and see if it is worth it to me to keep applying but I certainly wouldn’t expect compensation.
I don’t expect to win Powerball but I still buy a few tickets now and then for the hope of winning, not a future guarantee or a compensation package if I don’t win.
I hope that we could get something established in Colorado similar to what Wyoming is doing to improve the opportunities and quality in Colorado.
 
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Winchester

Veteran member
Mar 27, 2014
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Woodland Park, Colorado
So you must thoroughly enjoy joining the orange army. Why would you not support taking care of the residents first and improve the hunting in our home state first? The only way that can be accomplished is by making CO LQ for all species with favor given to residents just like the task force is doing for the residents of Wyoming. I don’t see a problem with what Wyoming residents are requesting.
Wow ... you really read into what I wrote.
In that quote I was telling Conrad that he'd be better off presenting facts rather than his opinion.
I even said, "You might have some valid points, ..."
I didn't say anything at all about not supporting residents.
Before you criticize, please read what was actually written.
 

JimP

Veteran member
Mar 28, 2016
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Gypsum, Co
After 7 pages there isn't much more that can be said on this subject . Residents like the idea and non residents hate it.

The big problem that I see is that unless the non residents live close enough or have a bunch of time to dedicate to go to the meetings their voices are pretty much mute.

Also it doesn't matter what is going on in Utah, Colorado, Arizona , Alaska , or anywhere else the decision will be made in Wyoming and not anywhere else. But it will affect local businesses and hunters for a long time. And if you don't believe that it will affect the small town businesses you need to go talk to the business owners .
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
690
406
After 7 pages there isn't much more that can be said on this subject . Residents like the idea and non residents hate it.

The big problem that I see is that unless the non residents live close enough or have a bunch of time to dedicate to go to the meetings their voices are pretty much mute.

Also it doesn't matter what is going on in Utah, Colorado, Arizona , Alaska , or anywhere else the decision will be made in Wyoming and not anywhere else. But it will affect local businesses and hunters for a long time. And if you don't believe that it will affect the small town businesses you need to go talk to the business owners .
Well....I might care more about business owners, what they think about wildlife/hunting decisions if they paid a single red cent to help manage any of it. I'm tired of decisions and recommendations coming from people who are on the take...they contribute nothing...zip. If they want a seat at the table and a voice they need to pay for it. I am wayyyy past tired of paying all the freight and having to listen to the belly aching of those that don't. Basing a business model off a publicly held asset and expecting management to reflect your bottom line, while you pay nothing...that's not going to fly. Too bad if decisions are made that cost them money...change your business model or fold the tent...don't care.
 

Hilltop

Veteran member
Feb 25, 2014
3,469
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Eastern Nebraska
Well....I might care more about business owners, what they think about wildlife/hunting decisions if they paid a single red cent to help manage any of it. I'm tired of decisions and recommendations coming from people who are on the take...they contribute nothing...zip. If they want a seat at the table and a voice they need to pay for it. I am wayyyy past tired of paying all the freight and having to listen to the belly aching of those that don't. Basing a business model off a publicly held asset and expecting management to reflect your bottom line, while you pay nothing...that's not going to fly. Too bad if decisions are made that cost them money...change your business model or fold the tent...don't care.
You ok with a business model built on deception?