Wyo Task Force - Nonres Comments!

[BuzzH]

To your first point-
You honestly dont think that "more people" would draw tags if there was a waiting period? This would provide more opportunity for a wider range of residents. Which in theory should make more people happy. But, if that isn't what the "task force" is after then this is nothing more than a tag grab of greed. Is the task force even trying to make the majority of residents happy? Or are they just after the NR tags?
Even if they went to 90/10 the same people could potentially be randomly drawing that tag several times in a row while others will STILL sit on the sidelines..crying that they still haven't drawn a tag...so whats the point? Its really the simple case of "it is never enough" going on here.
It is of my opinion that residents need to fix their side of the draw and not mess with the minuscule amount of non-residents tags. Think about it, a waiting period would completely eliminate that person from being in the random draw for a period of 5 years (or whatever was chosen 3-5-7?).....seems pretty substantial to me. Of course it would severely affect guys your age so I understand why you are not for it, because it doesn't specifically benefit you. However, the people who have been "trying to draw a LQ unit for 30 years" would have a substantial increase in odds of drawing that tag under those waiting period terms. More so than adding a few more of the NR's tags to the pot or for that matter all of them. It seems like residents are just upset that other residents are drawing LQ tags more often than others and they feel that adding more tags to the pot is going to make up the difference. Well, I hate to break it to them but its still a lottery and they are likely to be disappointing still...unless they can limit the amount of people getting into that lottery.....thats the ONLY way they will significantly increase their draw odds.

To your second point- Everyone here understands this. We all get it, if residents want more tags they need to get more tags from somewhere else. BUT, if what the residents truly want better odds on high end LQ tags they need to be pushing waiting periods for DEA and lengthen the waiting periods for sheep and moose or turn them into OIL tags. I didnt crunch the numbers but this has to be able to help way more than a 90/10 split.

To your third point- With the way creep is going for NR's drawings , I would be 100% fine if there was a LQ waiting period for NR DEA individuals of 3-5 years. That would eliminate the guys who are point averaging to get into units year, after year, after year again. My only chance at the units I am looking at is the random draw at this point so I would gladly pursue a 5 year waiting period for DEA as a non-resident. That would in theory get 5 times X amount of people who have drawn the tags out of the draw by year 5....Basically, it would reduce the amount of people applying by X amount of tags per year and increase the random draw odds from 3% up to say 20% which would be fine by me.
Of course, this would benefit guys like me who are still young so I am sure that a lot of people would be against this idea. Would I like to hunt Wyoming yearly? Sure. Do I need to? No.

There's only one way to look at this...and that's more tags going to Residents.

I don't care about increasing draw odds, I care about MORE Residents getting more tags...that's it.

The people that live here, work here, pay taxes here, build lives here deserve a higher allocation, its not complicated.

Sebastian's "analysis" of 6 Wyoming elk areas is the perfect example...to 1,400 Residents over the next 10 years it will allow them to hunt better elk areas. That's significant, I don't care what the draw odds are, or even if it improves odds at all. Don't care.

Same with 90-10 for sheep over the next 10 years, 300 more Residents will hunt sheep in Wyoming...to those 300 people that's significant, hunts of a lifetime most likely.

THAT is the reason Residents are pushing 90-10.

Waiting periods don't increase odds or the number of tags, just shifts where we hunt and apply...no need for them.

Finally, to ease your mind that all I think about is my chances at more tags...feel free to listen to the testimony on the recording where I testified in favor of retroactively making sheep and moose once in a lifetime for those that are currently in the 5 year waiting period.

If that passes, which I'm sure it will...I just testified to take myself out of the sheep drawing for the rest of my life. And I assure you, I like to hunt sheep more than 99% of the people applying. I'll take that hit to myself personally to make sure others get the same chance I did.

 

[shootbrownelk]

buzz wyoming is 48 percent federal land,,that means its everybodys,,,not yours,,,why dont you push for your 90-10 on state land only.

Sure, c'mon out for a picnic or a hike, just don't hunt. The critters that live on that "Federal land" belong to the citizens of Wyoming. Just like they do in your state of Oregon. The birds in the trees understand it for chrissakes.

 

[mallardsx2]

Finally, to ease your mind that all I think about is my chances at more tags...feel free to listen to the testimony on the recording where I testified in favor of retroactively making sheep and moose once in a lifetime for those that are currently in the 5 year waiting period.

If that passes, which I'm sure it will...I just testified to take myself out of the sheep drawing for the rest of my life. And I assure you, I like to hunt sheep more than 99% of the people applying. I'll take that hit to myself personally to make sure others get the same chance I did.

Coming from a guy who already has drawn those tags and knows he has a slim to none chance of drawing one again in his remaining lifetime.

Oh do tell us how courageous, generous and brave you were to go out on a limb and testify to that.....LMFAO

 

[BuzzH]

Oh, I don't know...I draw a lot more than my fair share of tags. Already drawn 2 shiras moose, desert sheep, muskox, oryx, bighorn sheep ram, bighorn sheep ewe on a second choice, mountain goat, 4 rifle bull tags in AZ, 4 LQ bull tags in WY, can't know how many great pronghorn tags in NM, MT, and WY, 8-10 Javelina, 5 late coues deer tags (snagged a random one this year), drawn the breaks rifle bull tag twice in Montana, a whole boatload of cow tags, deer b tags, doe/fawn pronghorn, additional whitetail buck tags, yada yada...

Always been lucky that way...probably best I cant apply again.

I'll get a third shiras for sure, have a bunch of points in Montana and up to 2 already in Wyoming. Applying smartly in WY I'll likely draw another moose via the 50-50 random/preference.

About due another sheep tag...I always feel like AZ will come through with a Rocky tag (up to 11 points already) to go with the desert tag and I should hit Nevada soon for desert #2. Never have "felt" I'd draw sheep in CO...even though I have 3 and 15ish weighted points. Have max sheep in Montana and 22 in Utah...don't feel it there either, but you never know. I'd rather be at 22 in UT and max in Montana than having no points.

So many quality deer, elk, and pronghorn headed my way I can't list them all.

 

[Turbodude]

Game Hog

 

[ore hunter]

back in the day when this was started i wouldnt have a issue if it was 90-10 from the start,,i just dont think its right to change the rules mid stream on non residents that have been investing in many points for many years.whether im a resident or a non-resident,,that isnt fair to those folks,,as ive said,im not even in any of the "big 5" on points,,i just dont think changing is fair for them .

 

[BuzzH]

back in the day when this was started i wouldnt have a issue if it was 90-10 from the start,,i just dont think its right to change the rules mid stream on non residents that have been investing in many points for many years.whether im a resident or a non-resident,,that isnt fair to those folks,,as ive said,im not even in any of the "big 5" on points,,i just dont think changing is fair for them .

You're living in the past almost as much as you are on denial Island in fantasyland.

"back in the day"...my Dad and his friends could shoot 2 mule deer bucks each in Montana during the rut, and they did. Are you saying they should still be able to because you "don't think changing is fair for them?"

"Back in the day" I could buy 6 tags to shoot antlered whitetail bucks in Montana to hunt from Ovando to Darby in Montana on the river bottom, with a season stretching from September through January....should I still be able to do that because "I just don't think changing is fair to me?"

The answer to both is NO, things change and for good reasons. We don't have the mule deer we did in the 60's-70's in Montana. We also dont have the deer in the river bottoms like we had in the early 80's either.

Rules, laws, regulations HAVE to change, we don't live in a time warp where nothing around us changes.

Its the same exact thing with the change to 90-10, its a necessary tool to afford residents more opportunity at the big 5, and perhaps even DEA. When the system started 26 years ago, do you even have the slightest clue how many sheep and moose tags were issued or how many people applied "back in the day"?

JM77 that posts on here has every set of orders dating back to the mid 70's. In 1978 Wyoming was issuing over 400 sheep tags, and over 2000 moose permits. There were wayyyy fewer applicants then and the thinking was that there may not actually be enough resident applicants to cover those tags. Nobody is a fortune teller.

Who would have guessed, in 1978 that in 2021 we would only be issuing 180 sheep permits, less than 400 moose permits? I would argue the assumption THEN would have been, well, with the way we're managing, doing all these great things for wildlife, we'll have even more sheep, more moose in Wyoming.

Who have guessed the amount of hunter interest in sheep and moose would sky-rocket like it has? When I started hunting in 1979 in Montana, I knew just a very few hardcore guys that even applied for moose, sheep, and goat. The first year I applied for a sheep tag in Lower Rock Creek, the draw odds were 1:18...now, why bother to check once it gets to 1: several hundred. When I drew a goat tag in Montana in 1998, they issued 2 tags and 38 people applied. Same area this year...over 1300 applied.

Things have changed and if you don't think that's "fair" well, then you're living in denial of facts, reality, and common sense...

The world changes and we have no choice to but to make adjustments, including putting more tags in the hands of our Residents as demand increases and tag numbers decrease...simple as that.

 

[AKaviator]

back in the day when this was started i wouldnt have a issue if it was 90-10 from the start,,i just dont think its right to change the rules mid stream on non residents that have been investing in many points for many years.whether im a resident or a non-resident,,that isnt fair to those folks,,as ive said,im not even in any of the "big 5" on points,,i just dont think changing is fair for them .

I agree with you. But "back in the day" seems to be a distant memory. These days a lot of folks really don't care about screwing others over, as long as it's serves their selfish agenda. It's all about character and doing what's right. The heck with many of the hunting guides in Wyoming or the non-residents who are financially committed in the preference point system. As long as a few residents get extra tags, it's good. smh.

 

[BuzzH]

I agree with you. But "back in the day" seems to be a distant memory. These days a lot of folks really don't care about screwing others over, as long as it's serves their selfish agenda. It's all about character and doing what's right. The heck with many of the hunting guides in Wyoming or the non-residents who are financially committed in the preference point system. As long as a few residents get extra tags, it's good. smh.

Right, it sounds a whole lot like how AK favors their residents and craps on NR's.

"Back in the day" I didn't need a guide to hunt brown bears, grizzlies, goats and sheep. Back in 1994 I could buy my NR sheep tag at walmart and kill a B&C ram in the Chugach.

I also got to hunt caribou on the AK Peninsula...not now.

My first trip fishing up there was 2 halibut any size, unlimited rockfish, and I could keep fish for the deck hand and captain.

Now, depending on area, either 3 or 5 rock fish, 1 halibut, or maybe 2 but one has to be under 32"...

The heck with the AK NR's hunters and anglers that have been financially supporting AK for the last 25 years, as long as a few residents get extra fish and tags, its good. SMH.

 

[Winchester]

I agree with you. But "back in the day" seems to be a distant memory. These days a lot of folks really don't care about screwing others over, as long as it's serves their selfish agenda. It's all about character and doing what's right. The heck with many of the hunting guides in Wyoming or the non-residents who are financially committed in the preference point system. As long as a few residents get extra tags, it's good. smh.

Great points AK.
I’ve had Buzz on ignore for months now but I got curious about this thread because so many members were calling him on his BS so I looked at what he’s been saying … wow!!
As usual he’s arrogant, self righteous, argumentative and basically just selfish (as he’s been called by another member on this thread and many others previously). His whole message is selfish; “I’ve already pulled dozens of great tags but I want more, more, more and screw whoever else has to suffer to support me.” I’m not surprised … that’s who he is. Good for you for calling him on it.
I’m putting him back on ignore now because the Forum is a lot more enjoyable without seeing his crap.

 

[BuzzH]

Great points AK.
I’ve had Buzz on ignore for months now but I got curious about this thread because so many members were calling him on his BS so I looked at what he’s been saying … wow!!
As usual he’s arrogant, self righteous, argumentative and basically just selfish (as he’s been called by another member on this thread and many others previously). His whole message is selfish; “I’ve already pulled dozens of great tags but I want more, more, more and screw whoever else has to suffer to support me.” I’m not surprised … that’s who he is. Good for you for calling him on it.
I’m putting him back on ignore now because the Forum is a lot more enjoyable without seeing his crap.

So, basically...fake, pretend ignore.

 

[JM77]

So often a regulation ends up having the exact opposite effect than it was intended to have. I get the bait of having the potential of 1400 more tags for the residents. The principle of wildlife management is almost totally based on numbers. Population estimates, bull cow ratio, and most important harvest statistics. Simply put, G&F will offer more tags for a target "take" because the success ratio tells them that all tags will not be filled. If the success ratio moves up then G&F will reduce the amount of tags appropriately to have the same harvest number. The question gets to be, if resident or nonresident have the same success ratios. Don't have a clue on this one. Common sense would put the residents at a much higher success ratio but that is just a guess. In the end the bait of 1400 more tags could be in reality 1400 less tags.

Generally, NR have a higher success ratio. Check out the harvest reports. So much for common sense.

 

[nylogger]

Generally, NR have a higher success ratio. Check out the harvest reports. So much for common sense.

Confirmed ,thanks,

 

[ScottR]

Confirmed ,thanks,

NR have a higher success ratio due to IMO two things. Focused intensity, two full weeks to hunt because of x amount of time in system etc. Second is the “significant other factor.” Most who spend years applying have understanding spouses, very few of them can understand coming home empty handed. Read the threads here, NR standards tend to be about 20% lower due to scarcity, especially if they don’t live in the west.

 

[AKaviator]

Great points AK.
I’ve had Buzz on ignore for months now but I got curious about this thread because so many members were calling him on his BS so I looked at what he’s been saying … wow!!
As usual he’s arrogant, self righteous, argumentative and basically just selfish (as he’s been called by another member on this thread and many others previously). His whole message is selfish; “I’ve already pulled dozens of great tags but I want more, more, more and screw whoever else has to suffer to support me.” I’m not surprised … that’s who he is. Good for you for calling him on it.
I’m putting him back on ignore now because the Forum is a lot more enjoyable without seeing his crap.

He’s on my ignore list also. No need to see his caustic b.s

NR have a higher success ratio due to IMO two things. Focused intensity, two full weeks to hunt because of x amount of time in system etc. Second is the “significant other factor.” Most who spend years applying have understanding spouses, very few of them can understand coming home empty handed. Read the threads here, NR standards tend to be about 20% lower due to scarcity, especially if they don’t live in the west.

Non-residents more often hire guides or pay for private land access. Non-residents are more successful on Dall sheep in Alaska due to guided hunting.

 

[wy-tex]

Wow, so we're game hogs if we take or even just draw the licenses we want ?
Now we're game hogs because we want to fill our freezers to feed our families.
News flash, most Wyoming residents have multitudes of tags every year. We have the game to hunt so we hunt it.

Plenty of caustic comments about residents of Wyoming on here as well.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

News Flash.......! Stop issuing NR tags and issue them all to Wyoming residents. Watch WG&F Department go broke! Watch how many small businesses depending on NR $$$ shut their doors also. Watch how many outfitters shut their doors too.

I don't apply for any of the Big 5 and after using all my points for deer and elk the last couple of years, I will only be hunting antelope in Wyoming in the future. So basically I don't have a dog in this fight, but Wyoming resident hunters need to understand the financial realities of what NR's contribute to residents hunting opportunities.

 

[Conrad8899]

I guess what bogles my mind is how a NR of any state can complain how another states Game & Fish does its business and how it manages its big game... I had 10+ points for deer in Colorado how many times has Colorado changed there draw in those 10+ years. How about Mt, NM,ID and any other western state I do not see pages and pages on forums complaining about how they do there business and conduct there draw.... The state U reside in should be taken care of its residents first NR should get what is left plain and simple weather its 90/10 or 95/5... Before this is said and done maybe NR will only get %5 of the tags in Wy the outfitters might want the other %5 just be happy that U get what U get One more thing no more point sharing jimms

 

[wy-tex]

News flash, we're not asking for all the licenses, just our fair share.
What's fair, that is debatable .

 

[Winchester]

Agreed, What’s fair is debatable.
Do you consider it fair that some NR have been spending hundreds of dollars on points for 20+ years and now they will be basically told “tough luck”?