Wyo Task Force - Nonres Comments!

JM77

Member
Apr 25, 2016
99
25
Casper, Wyoming
Just to clarify...I'm not necessarily against the 90/10 split as long as changes are made to the preference point system FIRST. If there are no changes to the system, I am against changing to the 90/10 allocation.
There are changes already discussed for the big five that will surely be talked about on Thursday. OIL status, change to bonus points and change in allocation between random and PP to name a few. Also, how the G&F can use total tag numbers to make the random/PP split to ensure every applicant has a chance to draw.
 

dan maule

Very Active Member
Jan 3, 2015
799
886
Upper Michigan
There are changes already discussed for the big five that will surely be talked about on Thursday. OIL status, change to bonus points and change in allocation between random and PP to name a few. Also, how the G&F can use total tag numbers to make the random/PP split to ensure every applicant has a chance to draw.
Is there anything on the table for non resident landowner tags? Just curious, not suggesting anything should be!
 

jimss

Active Member
Jun 10, 2012
220
89
The task force meeting is about resident opportunity. I’m pretty sure Buzz has around 6 or 7 …possibly more big game tags this year. That’s an incredible amount of opportunity!
 

Hilltop

Veteran member
Feb 25, 2014
3,514
1,582
Eastern Nebraska
The task force meeting is about resident opportunity. I’m pretty sure Buzz has around 6 or 7 …possibly more big game tags this year. That’s an incredible amount of opportunity!
I am a non resident. I oppose a blanket 90/10 but... I have several resident friends who would gladly trade their 3-6 tags for one they have been trying to draw for 10+ years. I get the principal behind it. Stinks to apply for a tag that you can't draw but me as a non resident have drawn it a couple times. I just really hope they can come up with some kind of compromise that doesn't eliminate opportunity completely for some who have invested for a long time.
 

mosquito

Active Member
Nov 1, 2012
290
412
NE ohio
I am a non resident. I oppose a blanket 90/10 but... I have several resident friends who would gladly trade their 3-6 tags for one they have been trying to draw for 10+ years. I get the principal behind it. Stinks to apply for a tag that you can't draw but me as a non resident have drawn it a couple times. I just really hope they can come up with some kind of compromise that doesn't eliminate opportunity completely for some who have invested for a long time.
Ive been watching and reading this debate for sometime now and i as a nonresident agree with you . I think this is very well said.
 
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jimss

Active Member
Jun 10, 2012
220
89
Here's a great scenerio for Wyo res. This illustrates that Wyo res draw odds will dramatically increase for drawing limited tags with a waiting period vs 90/10. Hopefully a Wyo res will pass this along to the task force.

IMG_5193.jpg


IMG_5194.jpg

The first table is number of Wyo res tags issued and applicants followed by the number of applicants after 1, 2, 3, and up to 5 years of waiting (after an applicant draws a tag). This would reflect 1 to 5 year waiting periods after drawing tags.

The 2nd table shows draw % in each category. The 2 shaded columns on the right side of the 2nd table are 2021 Wyo res draw odds and Wyo draw odds taken from 2021 stats with 90/10 additional nonres tags are added to res tags.

Obviously the toughest draw units will be difficult to draw with any system. However, with waiting periods there is a guarantee of drawing some very good elk tags with a waiting period. With 90/10 these same unit draw odds will barely increase draw odds and are way worse than what would be available with a waiting period!

If Wyo res want to draw limited tags on a more regular basis a waiting period would be a lot better option than 90/10! Take a look at how quickly draw odds improve compared to only a few nonres tags being handed over to residents with 90/10!

If Wyo res want to draw limited tags on a more regular basis here you go! Those that draw tags obviously have to wait a few years before they can apply again but those that don't draw will have MUCH better draw odds without impacting so many nonres with 90/10!
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
696
463
Wyoming residents want MORE opportunity and more tags available to them across the board, in all units... not being forced to be put in the penalty box for drawing a tag.

No way are waiting periods going to happen...dumbest...idea....ever.

Oh, and Sebastian...your tables are simply not true...people hop around applying in different areas, new hunters apply in areas, youth hunters.

You make the assumption the applicant numbers in every unit stay static...they dont. Watch what happens to applicant numbers when someone pounds on a 380 bull in unit X...
 
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ore hunter

Very Active Member
Jul 25, 2014
714
112
buzz and his task force are pulling for the residents and pulling the rug out from under the non-residents,,ive already voiced plenty of opposition from this non resident already in the other thread,,,i hope wyoming game and fish value the non-resident money rolling in and keep the same current game plans as they already have put in place,,if big 5 go 90-10,there will be alot of pissed off non-residents that feel like they got it in the shorts...then deer,elk and antelope will be next.i oppose the taskforces push for 90-10 as a non-resident with no pull.
 

ore hunter

Very Active Member
Jul 25, 2014
714
112
why dont wyoming residents start a preference point set up then after many years flush your points down the toilet,,that is what buzz and the task force are pushing for non-residents,,and thats not right!!the advantage of being a resident is you dont have the point building game to start with..
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
696
463
why dont wyoming residents start a preference point set up then after many years flush your points down the toilet,,that is what buzz and the task force are pushing for non-residents,,and thats not right!!the advantage of being a resident is you dont have the point building game to start with..
There's 49 other States (one of which you're a resident of) to hunt...and several other countries in NA that you could hunt as well.

States have rights...and I support state rights.

S. 339

To reaffirm the authority of States to regulate certain hunting and
fishing activities.



_______________________________________________________________________


IN THE SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES

February 9, 2005

Mr. Reid (for himself, Mr. Baucus, Mr. Stevens, Mr. Nelson of Nebraska,
Mr. Ensign, Mr. Enzi, Mr. Crapo, Mr. Hatch, Mr. Conrad, Mr. Salazar,
Mr. Craig, Mr. Bingaman, Mr. Thomas, and Mr. Kyl) introduced the
following bill; which was read twice and referred to the Committee on
the Judiciary

April 21, 2005

Reported by Mr. Specter, without amendment

_______________________________________________________________________

A BILL



To reaffirm the authority of States to regulate certain hunting and
fishing activities.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the
United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the ``Reaffirmation of State Regulation of
Resident and Nonresident Hunting and Fishing Act of 2005''.

SEC. 2. DECLARATION OF POLICY AND CONSTRUCTION OF CONGRESSIONAL
SILENCE.

(a) In General.--It is the policy of Congress that it is in the
public interest for each State to continue to regulate the taking for
any purpose of fish and wildlife within its boundaries, including by
means of laws or regulations that differentiate between residents and
nonresidents of such State with respect to the availability of licenses
or permits for taking of particular species of fish or wildlife, the
kind and numbers of fish and wildlife that may be taken, or the fees
charged in connection with issuance of licenses or permits for hunting
or fishing.

(b) Construction of Congressional Silence.--Silence on the part of
Congress shall not be construed to impose any barrier under clause 3 of
Section 8 of Article I of the Constitution (commonly referred to as the
``commerce clause'') to the regulation of hunting or fishing by a State
or Indian tribe.

SEC. 3. LIMITATIONS.

Nothing in this Act shall be construed--
(1) to limit the applicability or effect of any Federal law
related to the protection or management of fish or wildlife or
to the regulation of commerce;
(2) to limit the authority of the United States to prohibit
hunting or fishing on any portion of the lands owned by the
United States; or
(3) to abrogate, abridge, affect, modify, supersede or
alter any treaty-reserved right or other right of any Indian
tribe as recognized by any other means, including, but not
limited to, agreements with the United States, Executive
Orders, statutes, and judicial decrees, and by Federal law.

SEC. 4. STATE DEFINED.

For purposes of this Act, the term ``State'' includes the several
States, the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico,
Guam, the Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and the Commonwealth of the
Northern Mariana Islands.




Calendar No. 85

109th CONGRESS
 
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jimss

Active Member
Jun 10, 2012
220
89
I know several Wyo res that complain that their neighbors have drawn several limited deer and elk tags while they have drawn 0! Well here you go! It's a no=brainer that if hunters draw limited tags and have to wait 3 to 5 years to apply again that draw odds will improve! No if, and, or buts about that!

Buzz, Buzz, always such an optimist! If draw odds rise in 1 unit they drop in another. Also, the draw odds for high demand units stay almost identical from 1 year to the next! There are always wildcard units that with work produce great bucks and bulls. Those units could potentially have incredible draw odds if a waiting period was imposed! I can pretty much guarantee you won't be waiting as long for sought after limited tags with a waiting period!

If you want to draw tags support a waiting period. If you want similar draw odds than current numbers support 90/10! It's totally false that Wyo res will have better odds of drawing high demand unit tags with 90/10 because there are so many Wyo res applying for only 1 or 2 additional tags that would be offered to them. Take a look at my charts and decide for yourself!

Oh yah Buzz, how many big game tags did you say you have this year? Do you need more opportunity? I believe if you are lucky in the draws a Wyo res can draw something like 12 big game tags in any given year. Holy smokes how many tags do you need?
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
696
463
buzz wyoming is 48 percent federal land,,that means its everybodys,,,not yours,,,why dont you push for your 90-10 on state land only.
Read S. 339...

Land ownership and wildlife ownership are mutually exclusive...

You're free to use federal land the same as everyone else.

A State's wildlife...you're not. States reserve the right to manage wildlife as they see fit for the benefit of that State's residents. That includes being able to not allow ANY NR's access to that game. Yes, it happens, ND moose is a great example...no NR tags issued.

 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
696
463
I know several Wyo res that complain that their neighbors have drawn several limited deer and elk tags while they have drawn 0! Well here you go! It's a no=brainer that if hunters draw limited tags and have to wait 3 to 5 years to apply again that draw odds will improve! No if, and, or buts about that!

Buzz, Buzz, always such an optimist! If draw odds rise in 1 unit they drop in another. Also, the draw odds for high demand units stay almost identical from 1 year to the next! There are always wildcard units that with work produce great bucks and bulls. Those units could potentially have incredible draw odds if a waiting period was imposed! I can pretty much guarantee you won't be waiting as long for sought after limited tags with a waiting period!

If you want to draw tags support a waiting period. If you want similar draw odds than current numbers support 90/10! It's totally false that Wyo res will have better odds of drawing high demand unit tags with 90/10 because there are so many Wyo res applying for only 1 or 2 additional tags that would be offered to them. Take a look at my charts and decide for yourself!

Oh yah Buzz, how many big game tags did you say you have this year? Do you need more opportunity? I believe if you are lucky in the draws a Wyo res can draw something like 12 big game tags in any given year. Holy smokes how many tags do you need?
The ONLY way Residents draw more tags is to increase the number of tags they can draw...period.
 

ore hunter

Very Active Member
Jul 25, 2014
714
112
i hope that wyoming game and fish have there bean counters figuring this out,,,and realize what kind of non-resident money is supporting there game and fish department and where its coming from.were carrying the blunt of the load and the residents are not,,,look at the numbers.
 
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jimss

Active Member
Jun 10, 2012
220
89
Now lets look at bighorn sheep OPPORTUNITY for Wyo Residents.

Currently there is a 5 year wait for bighorn sheep and moose. There have been approximately 140 vs 50 bighorn tags issued to Wyo res vs nonres the past 5 years. That means there would be approximately 25 tags taken from nonres with 90/10 and issued to res.

Now lets say sheep becomes a once in a lifetime tag. That means there would be 140 fewer Wyo res applicants vying for tags each year vs 25 additional chances to draw with 90/10. 140 fewer applicants x 10 years is 1,400 more chances to draw tags vs 250 with 90/10. In 50 years that would be 7,000 additional chances vs only 1,250 with 90/10.

Simply switching over to once in a lifetime for sheep would roughly give Wyo res hunters a 5.6 x better chance of drawing a tag vs taking 1/2 of the available tags away from nonres hunters that have been applying for sheep tags for as many as 25 years!

How many Wyo res need more than 1 bighorn in their lifetimes? How about you Buzz? Wyo res chances for drawing a sheep tag will dramatically increase if it is simply switched over to OIL sheep! Draw odds will remain about the same with 90/10 for all big game species but if simply switched to OIL for sheep and moose or waiting periods for other species draw odds will improve considerably for Wyo res!
 
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jimss

Active Member
Jun 10, 2012
220
89
Going to OIL for sheep and moose and waiting periods for deer, elk, and antelope dramatically increases draw odds and OPPORTUNITY for Wyo residents that haven't drawn high demand tags. I'm certain that the majority of Wyo res would be excited having a better OPPORTUNITY to draw high demand tags! This can be done without totally switching over to a different bonus/pref pt system for sheep and moose or stripping 1/2 of the nonres limited tags that only slightly increase Wyo res draw odds.

It's also a very simple strategy to increase draw odds and the OPPORTUNITY for Wyo res to draw limited deer, elk, and antelope tags without having to convert over to a pref/bonus pt system.
 

mallardsx2

Veteran member
Jul 8, 2015
3,012
1,907
If a change is truly necessary, I feel that going to OIL for sheep and moose and waiting periods for LQ deer, elk, and antelope would dramatically increases draw odds and OPPORTUNITY for EVERYONE and that would be a huge step in the right direction.

I dont mind waiting 5 years to apply for LQ deer in Wyoming. Or any other species for that matter.
It would be a better alternative than going to a 90/10 IMO.

I dont apply for sheep moose points but I do feel sorry for the NR guys who have put in for a lifetime of points that will likely have the rug pulled out from under them.

If they decided to go the way of the waiting period it would likely help the random draw odds as well.

The realy problem behind this idea is that it isnt getting to what some residents want. Which is total control of all of the tags.
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
696
463
The task force discussed once in a lifetime for the big 5 AND 90-10 packaged together. That absolutely will maximize resident opportunity and bring wyoming in line with allocations in surrounding states. That's the direction the task force will take and I agree with once in a lifetime on the big 5 if 90-10 passes too.

Waiting periods won't fly on deer, elk, pronghorn for all kinds of reasons. Every pronghorn area in the state is lq...you expect residents to wait 5 years between pronghorn tags? Type 3 whitetail tags? Antlerless elk tags? Easy to draw bull permits? What would be the criteria for determining what qualifies as a hard to draw deer, elk, or pronghorn tag?

That idea is going nowhere and does not increase tag numbers for residents.
 
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