WY Taking a Look at Technlogy Concerning Hunting

[Hilltop]

Buzz, any idea why Wyoming doesn't have mandatory reporting? To me the survey system seems like a very inaccurate way of gauging success. Why not a mandatory call in or internet system?

 

[Hilltop]

Totally disagree, they get a very high level of participation in harvest surveys...if you want to see a total chit show for harvest reporting, see Montana, that's a joke.

But they don't send out surveys to all tag holders... they are averaging numbers. That is not an accurate way of doing it imo.

Edit- Another thing to consider- Nothing happens to them if they lie on a survey but if they lie on mandatory reporting and are caught, they are in trouble.

 

[tdub24]

I would love to see all states go to a mandatory harvest reporting system. With today's technology, there isn't many legit excuses for not having them.

 

[BuzzH]

But they don't send out surveys to all tag holders... they are averaging numbers. That is not an accurate way of doing it imo.

Edit- Another thing to consider- Nothing happens to them if they lie on a survey but if they lie on mandatory reporting and are caught, they are in trouble.

As to your first question, I've lived here 17 years and I have had a harvest survey for every single big-game tag I've had here...and also turkey tags as well. So, I don't know if I'm an outlier, but it would seem that harvest surveys are sent out to everybody?

I can ask the Department for clarification on that.

As to the second, mandatory harvest reporting is brought up all the time. In fact the last commission meeting it was brought up and Nesvik made some comments that there could be problems associated with going that route. I'm a fan of mandatory reporting, just for the record.

Regarding the issue of lying on a mandatory harvest report...without proof it didn't happen. I think finding that proof will be, problematic, best case. Usually such items like this are limited, "to the best of your knowledge"...that leaves a lot of wiggle room.

 

[JM77]

Since no one here, including the Wyo G&F Dept wants to back up their claims with simple research, I decided I would do the work for everyone. Here goes:
Since type 9 elk tags were surveyed, success rates for all type 9 areas combined started at 31.8% in 2009 to 25% in 2016, the eight year average of 25.8%

Success for all archery elk is 8.2% in 2007 to 9.6% in 2016, with a ten year average of 8.4%

For mule deer archery hunting in 2007, success was 3.8% to 5% in 2016 with the ten year average of 4.9%

Now what does this tell us about archery hunting in Wyoming? First, with all the advancements in both compound bows and crossbows, the hard numbers are barely changing at all. Apparently, you still have to hunt, still have to get close and still have to make a lethal shot. Also, we all know archery has become much more popular in the last ten years with no appreciable increase in harvest.

Based on these numbers above, banning crossbows in archery season will do one thing and one thing only; it will remove hunter opportunity from archery season.

 

[Hilltop]

I had 3 tags this past fall and haven't seen a survey yet. 3 years ago my wife and I both had elk tags. I received one and she didn't. Maybe they don't send as many to non-residents? In any event, I think we can all agree it would be a tool that would benefit the management of game in Wyoming- including providing data on issues such as this if they included weapon options on the reporting.

 

[Hilltop]

Since no one here, including the Wyo G&F Dept wants to back up their claims with simple research, I decided I would do the work for everyone. Here goes:
Since type 9 elk tags were surveyed, success rates for all type 9 areas combined started at 31.8% in 2009 to 25% in 2016, the eight year average of 25.8%

Success for all archery elk is 8.2% in 2007 to 9.6% in 2016, with a ten year average of 8.4%

For mule deer archery hunting in 2007, success was 3.8% to 5% in 2016 with the ten year average of 4.9%

Now what does this tell us about archery hunting in Wyoming? First, with all the advancements in both compound bows and crossbows, the hard numbers are barely changing at all. Apparently, you still have to hunt, still have to get close and still have to make a lethal shot. Based on these numbers above, banning crossbows in archery season will do one thing and one thing only; it will remove hunter opportunity from archery season.

To play devils advocate...
1-Crossbows were allowed during all of those years.
2-It is very debatable how accurate the surveys are.
3-I personally believe they could be off by 20% on any given season. I may be wrong but under the current system nobody can prove that one way or the other.

I would truly be interested in real data that would help everyone make a good decision. The problem is we don't have it.

 

[JM77]

To play devils advocate...
1-Crossbows were allowed during all of those years.
2-It is very debatable how accurate the surveys are.
3-I personally believe they could be off by 20% on any given season. I may be wrong but under the current system nobody can prove that one way or the other.

I would truly be interested in real data that would help everyone make a good decision. The problem is we don't have it.

I fully expect to see at least two more inaccurate posts very similar to this about the survey results. Nothing personal of course...

 

[highplainsdrifter]

Since no one here, including the Wyo G&F Dept wants to back up their claims with simple research, I decided I would do the work for everyone. Here goes:
Since type 9 elk tags were surveyed, success rates for all type 9 areas combined started at 31.8% in 2009 to 25% in 2016, the eight year average of 25.8%

Success for all archery elk is 8.2% in 2007 to 9.6% in 2016, with a ten year average of 8.4%

For mule deer archery hunting in 2007, success was 3.8% to 5% in 2016 with the ten year average of 4.9%

Now what does this tell us about archery hunting in Wyoming? First, with all the advancements in both compound bows and crossbows, the hard numbers are barely changing at all. Apparently, you still have to hunt, still have to get close and still have to make a lethal shot. Also, we all know archery has become much more popular in the last ten years with no appreciable increase in harvest.

Based on these numbers above, banning crossbows in archery season will do one thing and one thing only; it will remove hunter opportunity from archery season.

Thanks for providing these numbers! Although your data on overall success rates clearly show that archery in general is not a huge percentage of the take (and have not increased much over time), there still is no information available specifically for crossbows. And that is a problem.

I have been a strong supporter of Game and Fish for decades. I have participated in events to raise money for Access Yes. I have spent thousands of dollars on hunting licenses. Sometimes I even buy tags that I know I'm not going to use so I can contribute financially because I know they need the money.

But now the professionals within the Department have come out with this off the wall proposal to ban crossbows without having the background information to justify it. I am very disappointed in their level of professionalism. I expected more.

 

[BuzzH]

Hilltop,

Crossbows have been allowed since 1974, finding harvest data prior to then will be problematic, if not downright impossible. Going out on the ragged, hairy edge, I'd have to say that prior to 1974 archery success was probably much lower than what JM77 posted.

As to the accuracy of the data that JM77 provided, its solid data, perfect no. As you've pointed out, even with mandatory reporting its not going to be perfect. But, for the purposes of the discussion on this issue, I have very high confidence in the data provided.

The only data provided, and only available data the commission and public will have to work with, is what JM77 posted. Good enough that I don't see a problem with crossbows driving success rates through the roof, one of the major claims being used to oppose them. The data flat shows that just isn't the case.

This issue was prematurely brought to the commission by the Department, and its my hope it dies on the vine...

We have so many more important and pressing issues to deal with, I hate seeing time wasted on this crap.

 

[Hilltop]

I fully expect to see at least two more numb-minded posts very similar to this about the survey results. Nothing personal of course...

JM77, calling someones response numb minded is taken personally. Please keep these discussions civil. I believe all of us would benefit from more and better information. The majority of the responses on here are emotion based but really don't have proof behind them other than personal experiences. I am in no way in favor of banning crossbows and have stated such previously. I do feel that if the WG&F is going to seriously look into the issue and ask for the public's opinion, then the public should have actual information instead of just going off of emotion.

 

[JM77]

Thanks for providing these numbers! Although your data on overall success rates clearly show that archery in general is not a huge percentage of the take (and have not increased much over time), there still is no information available specifically for crossbows. And that is a problem.

It shouldn't be though. These numbers make the point that archery with any legal weapon is still a difficult sport. We are led to believe that technological advancements will change hunting and clearly in Wyoming, during archery season, that has not happened.

 

[Hilltop]

Surveys have proven to be very unreliable to me;
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwir-ZuIxOzYAhVJ-qwKHdF1Ac4QFggmMAA&url=https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKBN12F0PC&usg=AOvVaw31LmFGRRypG2WKjktHNPKM

I'll bow out of the discussion as I really don't believe anyone is going to provide anything to change anyone's mind on the issue. I do agree with Buzz- WG&F does have much bigger issues to tackle but getting the lid back on this can of worms may prove challenging.

 

[JM77]

JM77, calling someones response numb minded is taken personally. Please keep these discussions civil. I believe all of us would benefit from more and better information. The majority of the responses on here are emotion based but really don't have proof behind them other than personal experiences. I am in no way in favor of banning crossbows and have stated such previously. I do feel that if the WG&F is going to seriously look into the issue and ask for the public's opinion, then the public should have actual information instead of just going off of emotion.

You are certainly correct and I fixed it. What you are saying about the data is "inaccurate".

 

[kidoggy]

Surveys have proven to be very unreliable to me;
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwir-ZuIxOzYAhVJ-qwKHdF1Ac4QFggmMAA&url=https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKBN12F0PC&usg=AOvVaw31LmFGRRypG2WKjktHNPKM

I'll bow out of the discussion as I really don't believe anyone is going to provide anything to change anyone's mind on the issue. I do agree with Buzz- WG&F does have much bigger issues to tackle but getting the lid back on this can of worms may prove challenging.

which is why ,the more that are knowledgable about it the better.and why this thread intrests me.

 

[kidoggy]

You are certainly correct and I fixed it. What you are saying about the data is "inaccurate".

in your opinion.
what I get from this thread is no one really knows.

 

[highplainsdrifter]

It shouldn't be though. These numbers make the point that archery with any legal weapon is still a difficult sport. We are led to believe that technological advancements will change hunting and clearly in Wyoming, during archery season, that has not happened.

You are correct about archery overall: Apparently the advancements in compound bows and crossbows have not had a big impact on success rates. Thanks again for tabulating the numbers!

But since they are singling out crossbows, I'd like to see them provide some data specific to crossbows and apparently they can't do it. It annoys me that they would recommend banning crossbows without specific data.

It seems clear they are making their recommendations based on what they think is fair chase rather than looking at the hard numbers about the impacts of crossbows on population numbers, wounding loss, etc. I think they should make their decisions based primarily on hard numbers, and they don't have them.

 

[Dakota Drifter]

So why not buy an MOA scope and dial?

ETA: A 6X Leupold CDS would be sweet.

That would be sweet but last fall I did not see a compact scope with a CDS on their sight, would have to go with a full size rifle scope and that is why I put 99% in my post. I'm not sure on WY but most states that allow limited crossbow hunting have a limit to the power the scope can be.
I would have no problem with having to have an open sight system similar to a compound, the advantages and disadvantages between compound and crossbow would be pretty much a wash and the advantages would be dwarfed in comparison to the advantages compounds have over stick bows.

 

[CrimsonArrow]

Since no one here, including the Wyo G&F Dept wants to back up their claims with simple research, I decided I would do the work for everyone. Here goes:
Since type 9 elk tags were surveyed, success rates for all type 9 areas combined started at 31.8% in 2009 to 25% in 2016, the eight year average of 25.8%

Success for all archery elk is 8.2% in 2007 to 9.6% in 2016, with a ten year average of 8.4%

For mule deer archery hunting in 2007, success was 3.8% to 5% in 2016 with the ten year average of 4.9%

Now what does this tell us about archery hunting in Wyoming? First, with all the advancements in both compound bows and crossbows, the hard numbers are barely changing at all. Apparently, you still have to hunt, still have to get close and still have to make a lethal shot. Also, we all know archery has become much more popular in the last ten years with no appreciable increase in harvest.

Based on these numbers above, banning crossbows in archery season will do one thing and one thing only; it will remove hunter opportunity from archery season.

In a perfect world full of accurate statistics, it would be interesting to overlay this data with deer population or deer densities. A couple percentage point increase in success doesn't seem like much, but when you figure in significantly lower deer populations, it becomes more obvious that archery hunters are getting better at killing.

 

[Dakota Drifter]

Since no one here, including the Wyo G&F Dept wants to back up their claims with simple research, I decided I would do the work for everyone. Here goes:
Since type 9 elk tags were surveyed, success rates for all type 9 areas combined started at 31.8% in 2009 to 25% in 2016, the eight year average of 25.8%

Success for all archery elk is 8.2% in 2007 to 9.6% in 2016, with a ten year average of 8.4%

For mule deer archery hunting in 2007, success was 3.8% to 5% in 2016 with the ten year average of 4.9%

Now what does this tell us about archery hunting in Wyoming? First, with all the advancements in both compound bows and crossbows, the hard numbers are barely changing at all. Apparently, you still have to hunt, still have to get close and still have to make a lethal shot. Also, we all know archery has become much more popular in the last ten years with no appreciable increase in harvest.

Based on these numbers above, banning crossbows in archery season will do one thing and one thing only; it will remove hunter opportunity from archery season.

You should do a comparison to see how other western states that limit crossbow use and what their success rates are to Wyoming's.