Hilltop
Veteran member
Buzz, any idea why Wyoming doesn't have mandatory reporting? To me the survey system seems like a very inaccurate way of gauging success. Why not a mandatory call in or internet system?
But they don't send out surveys to all tag holders... they are averaging numbers. That is not an accurate way of doing it imo.Totally disagree, they get a very high level of participation in harvest surveys...if you want to see a total chit show for harvest reporting, see Montana, that's a joke.
As to your first question, I've lived here 17 years and I have had a harvest survey for every single big-game tag I've had here...and also turkey tags as well. So, I don't know if I'm an outlier, but it would seem that harvest surveys are sent out to everybody?But they don't send out surveys to all tag holders... they are averaging numbers. That is not an accurate way of doing it imo.
Edit- Another thing to consider- Nothing happens to them if they lie on a survey but if they lie on mandatory reporting and are caught, they are in trouble.
To play devils advocate...Since no one here, including the Wyo G&F Dept wants to back up their claims with simple research, I decided I would do the work for everyone. Here goes:
Since type 9 elk tags were surveyed, success rates for all type 9 areas combined started at 31.8% in 2009 to 25% in 2016, the eight year average of 25.8%
Success for all archery elk is 8.2% in 2007 to 9.6% in 2016, with a ten year average of 8.4%
For mule deer archery hunting in 2007, success was 3.8% to 5% in 2016 with the ten year average of 4.9%
Now what does this tell us about archery hunting in Wyoming? First, with all the advancements in both compound bows and crossbows, the hard numbers are barely changing at all. Apparently, you still have to hunt, still have to get close and still have to make a lethal shot. Based on these numbers above, banning crossbows in archery season will do one thing and one thing only; it will remove hunter opportunity from archery season.
I fully expect to see at least two more inaccurate posts very similar to this about the survey results. Nothing personal of course...To play devils advocate...
1-Crossbows were allowed during all of those years.
2-It is very debatable how accurate the surveys are.
3-I personally believe they could be off by 20% on any given season. I may be wrong but under the current system nobody can prove that one way or the other.
I would truly be interested in real data that would help everyone make a good decision. The problem is we don't have it.
Thanks for providing these numbers! Although your data on overall success rates clearly show that archery in general is not a huge percentage of the take (and have not increased much over time), there still is no information available specifically for crossbows. And that is a problem.Since no one here, including the Wyo G&F Dept wants to back up their claims with simple research, I decided I would do the work for everyone. Here goes:
Since type 9 elk tags were surveyed, success rates for all type 9 areas combined started at 31.8% in 2009 to 25% in 2016, the eight year average of 25.8%
Success for all archery elk is 8.2% in 2007 to 9.6% in 2016, with a ten year average of 8.4%
For mule deer archery hunting in 2007, success was 3.8% to 5% in 2016 with the ten year average of 4.9%
Now what does this tell us about archery hunting in Wyoming? First, with all the advancements in both compound bows and crossbows, the hard numbers are barely changing at all. Apparently, you still have to hunt, still have to get close and still have to make a lethal shot. Also, we all know archery has become much more popular in the last ten years with no appreciable increase in harvest.
Based on these numbers above, banning crossbows in archery season will do one thing and one thing only; it will remove hunter opportunity from archery season.
JM77, calling someones response numb minded is taken personally. Please keep these discussions civil. I believe all of us would benefit from more and better information. The majority of the responses on here are emotion based but really don't have proof behind them other than personal experiences. I am in no way in favor of banning crossbows and have stated such previously. I do feel that if the WG&F is going to seriously look into the issue and ask for the public's opinion, then the public should have actual information instead of just going off of emotion.I fully expect to see at least two more numb-minded posts very similar to this about the survey results. Nothing personal of course...
It shouldn't be though. These numbers make the point that archery with any legal weapon is still a difficult sport. We are led to believe that technological advancements will change hunting and clearly in Wyoming, during archery season, that has not happened.Thanks for providing these numbers! Although your data on overall success rates clearly show that archery in general is not a huge percentage of the take (and have not increased much over time), there still is no information available specifically for crossbows. And that is a problem.
You are certainly correct and I fixed it. What you are saying about the data is "inaccurate".JM77, calling someones response numb minded is taken personally. Please keep these discussions civil. I believe all of us would benefit from more and better information. The majority of the responses on here are emotion based but really don't have proof behind them other than personal experiences. I am in no way in favor of banning crossbows and have stated such previously. I do feel that if the WG&F is going to seriously look into the issue and ask for the public's opinion, then the public should have actual information instead of just going off of emotion.
which is why ,the more that are knowledgable about it the better.and why this thread intrests me.Surveys have proven to be very unreliable to me;
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwir-ZuIxOzYAhVJ-qwKHdF1Ac4QFggmMAA&url=https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKBN12F0PC&usg=AOvVaw31LmFGRRypG2WKjktHNPKM
I'll bow out of the discussion as I really don't believe anyone is going to provide anything to change anyone's mind on the issue. I do agree with Buzz- WG&F does have much bigger issues to tackle but getting the lid back on this can of worms may prove challenging.
in your opinion.You are certainly correct and I fixed it. What you are saying about the data is "inaccurate".
You are correct about archery overall: Apparently the advancements in compound bows and crossbows have not had a big impact on success rates. Thanks again for tabulating the numbers!It shouldn't be though. These numbers make the point that archery with any legal weapon is still a difficult sport. We are led to believe that technological advancements will change hunting and clearly in Wyoming, during archery season, that has not happened.
That would be sweet but last fall I did not see a compact scope with a CDS on their sight, would have to go with a full size rifle scope and that is why I put 99% in my post. I'm not sure on WY but most states that allow limited crossbow hunting have a limit to the power the scope can be.So why not buy an MOA scope and dial?
ETA: A 6X Leupold CDS would be sweet.
In a perfect world full of accurate statistics, it would be interesting to overlay this data with deer population or deer densities. A couple percentage point increase in success doesn't seem like much, but when you figure in significantly lower deer populations, it becomes more obvious that archery hunters are getting better at killing.Since no one here, including the Wyo G&F Dept wants to back up their claims with simple research, I decided I would do the work for everyone. Here goes:
Since type 9 elk tags were surveyed, success rates for all type 9 areas combined started at 31.8% in 2009 to 25% in 2016, the eight year average of 25.8%
Success for all archery elk is 8.2% in 2007 to 9.6% in 2016, with a ten year average of 8.4%
For mule deer archery hunting in 2007, success was 3.8% to 5% in 2016 with the ten year average of 4.9%
Now what does this tell us about archery hunting in Wyoming? First, with all the advancements in both compound bows and crossbows, the hard numbers are barely changing at all. Apparently, you still have to hunt, still have to get close and still have to make a lethal shot. Also, we all know archery has become much more popular in the last ten years with no appreciable increase in harvest.
Based on these numbers above, banning crossbows in archery season will do one thing and one thing only; it will remove hunter opportunity from archery season.
You should do a comparison to see how other western states that limit crossbow use and what their success rates are to Wyoming's.Since no one here, including the Wyo G&F Dept wants to back up their claims with simple research, I decided I would do the work for everyone. Here goes:
Since type 9 elk tags were surveyed, success rates for all type 9 areas combined started at 31.8% in 2009 to 25% in 2016, the eight year average of 25.8%
Success for all archery elk is 8.2% in 2007 to 9.6% in 2016, with a ten year average of 8.4%
For mule deer archery hunting in 2007, success was 3.8% to 5% in 2016 with the ten year average of 4.9%
Now what does this tell us about archery hunting in Wyoming? First, with all the advancements in both compound bows and crossbows, the hard numbers are barely changing at all. Apparently, you still have to hunt, still have to get close and still have to make a lethal shot. Also, we all know archery has become much more popular in the last ten years with no appreciable increase in harvest.
Based on these numbers above, banning crossbows in archery season will do one thing and one thing only; it will remove hunter opportunity from archery season.