WY Taking a Look at Technlogy Concerning Hunting

[highplainsdrifter]

I'm still waiting to see one piece of Wyoming data that shows they should move them out of the archery season.

And you won't see the data because G&F doesn't have anything specific to crossbows. They are basing their proposal to ban crossbows entirely on a philosophical/ethical argument. As we have seen throughout this thread, that is very squishy ground to stand on.

On the other hand, data have been presented here showing that success rates for ALL archery have not increased much in the past couple of decades in Wyoming even though there have been great advances in technology. So it would seem that archery take (of all kinds) is not a big problem. If we reach a point where archery take does become a problem, seasons should be adjusted accordingly WITHOUT discriminating against anyone.

 

[johnsd16]

johnsd & other harvest skeptics,

If you seriously don?t think ultimately there will be no difference in harvest success, just do a quick Google search of Illinois bow harvest results for this season compared to in the past. Our first raping of a previously protected rut. Then you defend those stats! Good luck.

I?d look it up for you but I?m at work outside in Milwaukee.

I do think it improves likelihood of harvest, see my previous post regarding my experience shooting a crossbow.

 

[graybird]

johnsd & other harvest skeptics,

If you seriously don?t think ultimately there will be no difference in harvest success, just do a quick Google search of Illinois bow harvest results for this season compared to in the past. Our first raping of a previously protected rut. Then you defend those stats! Good luck.

I?d look it up for you but I?m at work outside in Milwaukee.

Here's where you're wrong with your comparison. You are comparing apples to bananas. Archery hunting in Illinois is likely 90% plus done out of a tree stand or blind of some sort. I'd bet that is just the opposite with the vast majority being spot and stalk in WY, or any other western state. So, it doesn't take much to lug a crossbow a couple hundred yards to the stand versus packing it up and down mountains all day long. They are very different scenarios.

The other key thing that you're missing is the legality of crossbow use in WY hasn't recently taken place, it has been legal for decades. The thought of the WY elk world is coming to a crashing end suddenly is ridiculous.

Another interesting piece of information I'm surprised hasn't come up is the current WY elk population. In most all limited draw locations, the elk population is at or above current WG&F population objectives. So, who cares if the archery success rate increased a couple of % points. The elk herds are doing good at the moment, and the WG&F might view those additional % points as an added bonus to managing the herd objectives.

 

[Hilltop]

Here's where you're wrong with your comparison. You are comparing apples to bananas. Archery hunting in Illinois is likely 90% plus done out of a tree stand or blind of some sort. I'd bet that is just the opposite with the vast majority being spot and stalk in WY, or any other western state. So, it doesn't take much to lug a crossbow a couple hundred yards to the stand versus packing it up and down mountains all day long. They are very different scenarios.

The other key thing that you're missing is the legality of crossbow use in WY hasn't recently taken place, it has been legal for decades. The thought of the WY elk world is coming to a crashing end suddenly is ridiculous.

Another interesting piece of information I'm surprised hasn't come up is the current WY elk population. In most all limited draw locations, the elk population is at or above current WG&F population objectives. So, who cares if the archery success rate increased a couple of % points. The elk herds are doing good at the moment, and the WG&F might view those additional % points as an added bonus to managing the herd objectives.

If success rates are lower, they can sell more licenses to achieve the same harvest objective. More permits = more money

 

[Zim]

Gray bird,
Never did I claim anything was crashing down. Please stop fabricating crap. I just posted that ultimately any crossgun inclusion in archery season will result in a harvest increase. That will come to pass eventually even in Wyoming. Due to advancing crossgun technology. BTW I harvested my bull elk last September out of a treestand. I saw a lot more this year than in my last tag in that AZ unit in 2004.

 

[graybird]

Gray bird,
Never did I claim anything was crashing down. Please stop fabricating crap. I just posted that ultimately any crossgun inclusion in archery season will result in a harvest increase. That will come to pass eventually even in Wyoming. Due to advancing crossgun technology. BTW I harvested my bull elk last September out of a treestand. I saw a lot more this year than in my last tag in that AZ unit in 2004.

You're trying to compare Illinois to Wyoming, with your crossbow legality issue, harvest, or whatever. It doesn't hold any weight at all. I'm pretty sure the folks in WY could care less about what folks are doing in Illinois with a crossbow. You've been preaching it this entire thread, and it has no merit. Therefore, your fabricated crap comparison is irrelevant in this case.

And, if you're talking about an increase in harvest rates because of crossbow use in WY, you'd need to go back to the 70's when they were first granted legal status for that comparison. Don't you think the technology with compound bows have progressed in that same amount of time. You're funny.

 

[graybird]

If success rates are lower, they can sell more licenses to achieve the same harvest objective. More permits = more money

Theoretically yes, but I'd hedge a bet that the majority of the population objectives across the state are met via the rifle seasons. Archery success rate, with crossbows included, is minor compared to rifle success rate.

 

[Winchester]

It is not discriminating, unfortunately that is life. Just because you can't do something doesn't mean you should be given an advantage over others to do it. Anything with a mechanical means of holding the string, with bipods and optics is not archery to me. I have shot both and do believe that there is an advantage to a crossbow. I don't care one way or another what Wyoming decides to do, if it is legal than have fun and be safe. As I have stated before, there may be a lot not right in Colorado but I believe this is one they have correct. Just my opinion.

The youth and women argument just doesn't add up for me. I have three boys who have been shooting archery since they were old enough to hold a bow and slowly worked up until they were proficient. My wife just started shooting in the last two years and has gotten better and stronger as she shoots more.

I agree completely. It's not discriminating at all. If you can't pull a bow back then you just can't use one ... that's the way it goes.
What if I like to rifle hunt but I get to old to carry my rifle all day and I can't take the cold anymore? Does that mean I should be allowed to sit with my rifle and call something in during the rut and the nice September weather? No it doesn't. Am I being discriminated against? No, I just have to follow the regulations for each season like everyone else. Everyone has to follow the regulations, so it's not discrimination.

Also, archery season is longer than most rifles seasons and often during the rut because it's just plain hard to take big game with a bow. Rifles (and crossbows) make it much easier to take game so they do not fit the intent of archery season and don't belong there.
Rifles have their own season. Until there's a separate season for crossbows, if someone wants to use one during rifle season that's great, but they don't fit the intent of archery season. Rifle's don't belong in Archery season and neither do crossbows.

 

[Zim]

Graybird, You?re making yourself look really ignorant by claiming crossguns will always have zero impact on Wyoming archery season harvest rates. Are you a crossgun manufacturer rep or lobbyist by chance?

 

[graybird]

Graybird, You?re making yourself look really ignorant by claiming crossguns will always have zero impact on Wyoming archery season harvest rates. Are you a crossgun manufacturer rep or lobbyist by chance?

Bwhahahaha, you're funny. Where did I ever state crossbows will have zero impact? You're the one spouting doom and gloom, just look at Illinois harvest rates. Please.

And, to answer you're question, I'm not a crossbow rep or a lobbyist. Matter of fact, I don't even own a crossbow, I hunt with a compound bow. Bet you weren't expecting that.

 

[Zim]

Bwhahahaha, you're funny. Where did I ever state crossbows will have zero impact? You're the one spouting doom and gloom, just look at Illinois harvest rates. Please.

And, to answer you're question, I'm not a crossbow rep or a lobbyist. Matter of fact, I don't even own a crossbow, I hunt with a compound bow. Bet you weren't expecting that.

Read my posts and read yours. This is precisely what you are implying.

 

[graybird]

Read my posts and read yours. This is precisely what you are implying.

Trust me, I read your posts to which you are trying to imply that WY is headed for disaster much like Illinois. "Just Google what has happened to Illinois."

My simple rebuttal to you is what is, or isn't, currently taking place in Illinois has no merit with the current WY discussion topic.

Nice chatting with you!

 

[highplainsdrifter]

Since some people on this thread seem to have trouble recognizing crossbow discrimination when they see it, let me come at this from a different angle.

If the Wyoming Office of State Lands and Investments suddenly proposed to eliminate sheep grazing on state lands in preference to cattle grazing, there would be an uproar. If the Wyoming Department of Education suddenly decided to prohibit the longstanding practice of home schooling, you would have a minor civil war. In each case, these agencies would be accused of discrimination/bias if they didn?t have clear and concise information that cattle grazing is somehow better than sheep grazing and that public schools are better than home schooling. Rightfully, they would be accused of bias and severely chastised by the constituents benefiting from current policy.

The situation with G&F is very similar. They appear to be basing their recommendation to ban crossbows on the opinion of employees and have no hard data to back up their position. As with the examples above, they should expect to be accused of bias and can rightfully be accused of poor decision making on this issue.

 

[kidoggy]

Since some people on this thread seem to have trouble recognizing crossbow discrimination when they see it, let me come at this from a different angle.

If the Wyoming Office of State Lands and Investments suddenly proposed to eliminate sheep grazing on state lands in preference to cattle grazing, there would be an uproar. If the Wyoming Department of Education suddenly decided to prohibit the longstanding practice of home schooling, you would have a minor civil war. In each case, these agencies would be accused of discrimination/bias if they didn?t have clear and concise information that cattle grazing is somehow better than sheep grazing and that public schools are better than home schooling. Rightfully, they would be accused of bias and severely chastised by the constituents benefiting from current policy.

The situation with G&F is very similar. They appear to be basing their recommendation to ban crossbows on the opinion of employees and have no hard data to back up their position. As with the examples above, they should expect to be accused of bias and can rightfully be accused of poor decision making on this issue.

to expand that argument,.. is not having an archery only season discriminating against rifle hunters????

I'm not against archery, nor crossbows , but archery hunters wanted a seperate season from rifle because they thought the riflers had an advantage . why not do the same for crossbows ? if it reduces the opportunity, so be it.

 

[JM77]

Here's where you're wrong with your comparison. You are comparing apples to bananas. Archery hunting in Illinois is likely 90% plus done out of a tree stand or blind of some sort. I'd bet that is just the opposite with the vast majority being spot and stalk in WY, or any other western state. So, it doesn't take much to lug a crossbow a couple hundred yards to the stand versus packing it up and down mountains all day long. They are very different scenarios.

The other key thing that you're missing is the legality of crossbow use in WY hasn't recently taken place, it has been legal for decades. The thought of the WY elk world is coming to a crashing end suddenly is ridiculous.

Another interesting piece of information I'm surprised hasn't come up is the current WY elk population. In most all limited draw locations, the elk population is at or above current WG&F population objectives. So, who cares if the archery success rate increased a couple of % points. The elk herds are doing good at the moment, and the WG&F might view those additional % points as an added bonus to managing the herd objectives.

^^^This. Very well put!

 

[Zim]

^^^This. Very well put!

But wrong.

 

[Gr8bawana]

So you are saying that someone who can't steadily draw a compound bow...including youth, women and seniors (who don't otherwise have a medical condition) should not be allowed to use a crossbow during archery season? That is blatant discrimination and highly offensive!!

Yes that is what I am saying. If you are unable to use the equipment needed for archery, choose another weapon. If you think that is discrimination and are offended, so be it. I can't get a senior discount because I am not quite old enough. Why am I being discriminated against? I have to pay full price for my hunting licence and a senior can get one for only $13. That is discrimination.

 

[Zim]

Graybird,



In not one of my posts did I claim WY was headed for disaster. Please stop lying. My opinion is that allowing crossguns in bow season in any state will eventually result in some harvest increase eventually, if not immediately. I don?t care what state it is. Multiple reasons. Technology advances, pub spreads & more shortcutters appear every day. Wyoming is far from immune to this.

Do you really need examples of these??? I can provide many.

 

[highplainsdrifter]

Yes that is what I am saying. If you are unable to use the equipment needed for archery, choose another weapon. If you think that is discrimination and are offended, too bad. I can't get a senior discount because I am not quite old enough. Why am I being discriminated against? I have to pay full price for my hunting licence and a senior can get one for only $13. That is discrimination.

Read this...it goes to the heart of the issue:

Since some people (you for example) on this thread seem to have trouble recognizing crossbow discrimination when they see it, let me come at this from a different angle.

If the Wyoming Office of State Lands and Investments suddenly proposed to eliminate sheep grazing on state lands in preference to cattle grazing, there would be an uproar. If the Wyoming Department of Education suddenly decided to prohibit the longstanding practice of home schooling, you would have a minor civil war. In each case, these agencies would be accused of discrimination/bias if they didn?t have clear and concise information that cattle grazing is somehow better than sheep grazing and that public schools are better than home schooling. Rightfully, they would be accused of bias and severely chastised by the constituents benefiting from current policy.

The situation with G&F is very similar. They appear to be basing their recommendation to ban crossbows on the opinion of employees and have no hard data to back up their position. As with the examples above, they should expect to be accused of bias and can rightfully be accused of poor decision making on this issue.

 

[graybird]

Graybird,



In not one of my posts did I claim WY was headed for disaster. Please stop lying. My opinion is that allowing crossguns in bow season in any state will eventually result in some harvest increase eventually, if not immediately. I don?t care what state it is. Multiple reasons. Technology advances, pub spreads & more shortcutters appear every day.

Do you really need examples of these??? I can provide many.

You're killing me, lol, and funny! So, if crossbows have been legal for the past 4 decades, or so, I can't believe the elk herds have survived, especially since your opinion is that the harvest increase will somehow cause a decline in elk population due to that small increase in archery harvest. Eventually, you'll understand that the elk herds across the state are generally at or above herd objectives. And, this is even with crossbows being legal for the last few decades. Man, I can't believe they have survived this atrocity! And, to think they have done this for a couple decades now, while crossbows have been legal. The bottom line is the small potential % increase due to crossbows that may, or may not, be there; is still pennies on the dollar when it comes to elk herd management.