WY Taking a Look at Technlogy Concerning Hunting
- Thread starter Maxhunter
- Start date
I don't consider you the bad guy. just a dude passionate about a sport we all love.
seems everyone read right over this part of your post.
"Crossbow Policy Statement
The Pope and Young Club was founded to promote bowhunting and to record for posterity the outstanding examples of North American big game animals taken solely with the hunting bow.
For the purpose of the Pope and Young Club, a bow shall be defined as a longbow, recurve bow or compound bow that is hand-held and hand-drawn, and that has no mechanical device to enable the hunter to lock the bow at full or partial draw. Other than the energy stored by the drawn bow, no device to propel the arrow will be permitted.
Consequently, the Pope and Young Club does not consider the crossbow to be a hunting bow and will not accept any trophies collected by crossbow hunters. Further, the Pope and Young Club considers the use of crossbows during bowhunting seasons to be a serious threat to the future of bowhunting.
The Pope and Young Club therefore recommends the crossbow should not be considered for use in any bowhunting only season. Also, the Club strongly recommends that crossbow hunting be abolished from all existing bowhunting only seasons and the use of crossbows for hunting be restricted to firearms seasons. "
I don't consider you the bad guy. just a dude passionate about a sport we all love.
seems everyone read right over this part of your post, or maybe just couldn't get past your first line be fore their heads exploded.lol
"Crossbow Policy Statement
The Pope and Young Club was founded to promote bowhunting and to record for posterity the outstanding examples of North American big game animals taken solely with the hunting bow.
For the purpose of the Pope and Young Club, a bow shall be defined as a longbow, recurve bow or compound bow that is hand-held and hand-drawn, and that has no mechanical device to enable the hunter to lock the bow at full or partial draw. Other than the energy stored by the drawn bow, no device to propel the arrow will be permitted.
Consequently, the Pope and Young Club does not consider the crossbow to be a hunting bow and will not accept any trophies collected by crossbow hunters. Further, the Pope and Young Club considers the use of crossbows during bowhunting seasons to be a serious threat to the future of bowhunting.
The Pope and Young Club therefore recommends the crossbow should not be considered for use in any bowhunting only season. Also, the Club strongly recommends that crossbow hunting be abolished from all existing bowhunting only seasons and the use of crossbows for hunting be restricted to firearms seasons. "
highplainsdrifter
Very Active Member
Actually, I think they should consider banning longbows and recurves (not really but just playing the devil's advocate). They are notoriously inaccurate and inevitably someone is going to be tempted to shoot them beyond the 20 to 30 yards they are intended for. I bet they result in more wounding than any other archery equipment. I think we owe the wildlife resource more respect than that. In other words, why not use the technology that is available to enhance clean kills, hunting ethics and fair chase? If you can justify longbows, why not also allow spears?which is why compounds should also be banned.
that would be awesome! IF legal I would be a spear chucker. could you imagine killing a big bull elk with a spear. now that's a challenge.
highplainsdrifter
Very Active Member
Just for you, I'd recommend putting a rope on the end of the spear...so you could reel him in!
I'd like to see folks relax and just enjoy life.
I'm deaf - don't bow hunt anymore and but will hunt with a crossbow. Seems that moving causes noises I can't hear and the critters spook off. I hunted with a bow for about 25 years and shot 4 deer, 2 jumped string and took arrow in an area that didn't kill quickly - lost those 2. I did hunt with a crossbow for 2 days - had 2 does dodge the bolts and shot a spike. Didn't seem much difference as compared to bow performance.
If they are gonna ban X-bows, I'd like to see them ban mechanical releases.
I'm deaf - don't bow hunt anymore and but will hunt with a crossbow. Seems that moving causes noises I can't hear and the critters spook off. I hunted with a bow for about 25 years and shot 4 deer, 2 jumped string and took arrow in an area that didn't kill quickly - lost those 2. I did hunt with a crossbow for 2 days - had 2 does dodge the bolts and shot a spike. Didn't seem much difference as compared to bow performance.
If they are gonna ban X-bows, I'd like to see them ban mechanical releases.
So you wouldn't want a season where you would be out there hunting on equal footing with other crossbow hunters? You only want to use your crossbow during archery season where you have an advantage over other archers.
Thank you for being honest.
highplainsdrifter
Very Active Member
Advantage over other archers...what a laugh! I am approaching 70 years old. I can still get around pretty good, but packing an elk a lengthy distance is a challenge. So I need to get one reasonably close to the road (within a mile or less). The way I see it, compound/longbow/recurve archers have a great advantage over me. They diminish my chances because they are chasing elk and bugling like crazy making the elk very wary. As an older person, I need the crossbow just to be able to compete and I still feel I'm at a disadvantage.
As I have grown older, I have lost muscle mass (in spite of almost daily weight lifting). Several years ago, I noticed a tendency to shake more when at full draw especially if I had to remain at full draw for any length of time. For ethical reasons I decided to switch to a crossbow to reduce the possibility of wounding.
I am guessing that many youths, women and other seniors feel the same way. When you take a stand against crossbows, you are discriminating against these groups...make absolutely no mistake about that!!
I?m not attacking you personally, but unless they can show the statistical analysis to prove that they have....
1. Adequate power
2. Acheieved statistical significance at 95% CI (or whatever CI they want to choose based on their power)
Anything less is just lip service, and they can provide as much reasssurance or whatever to say their data is good. I?m not saying they have to do this because it is impractical and not how they are probably set up to gather and analyze data. It?s probably just too rigorous to the payoff (because really who cares or why would that many resources be justified just to polish stats). However, we are probably all aware of some hame and fish department or even animal rights/conservation group that uses flawed statistical methods to promote an agenda. Like when mandatory harvest check stations are set up on highways leading back into big cities, and that data is used to estimate success rates. Maybe the citidiots only have a success rate of 15% but the rural guys who shoot their deer on the back 40 and cut it up in the barn are running a 30% success rate, but they don?t get surveyed, at least not at the same rate.
If your not familiar with the statistical concept of ?worst case scenario? situations like this are interesting to analyze with this method.
For example say the data shows that harvest success between crossbow and vertical bow hunters is not different. However, by this analysis if only 70% of crossbow hunters are responding to surveys and 73% of vertical bow hunters respond, you run the numbers with 100% response and mark every non-responding crossbow hunter as successful and every non-responding vertical bow hunter as unsuccessful (and vice versa). If a statistical significance that was there disappears, or one that wasn?t there appears, the data is highly questionable and you were probably underpowered to begin with for that high of a non-response rate.
These commissions have a tough job, and both high response rate surveys/mandatory reporting AND high quality statistical analysis take a lot of time, money/resources and expertise which likely isn?t justifiable. I just don?t like to see garbage data with no backup thrown around like it is gospel. It?s the best we have but most of the time it isn?t very good. It?s like looking in the B&C book for Iowa and making a heat map by county for B&C bucks. With who knows how many bucks scoring high enough but never entered in hanging in grandpa?s shed or in uncle Al?s bar, the county that?s has the most deer over 180? hit the ground might not even be in the top 5 according to the book. Garbage in garbage out.
As has already been said, nobody is against crossbow use during archery seasons by those with a medical need. Being old and not strong enough or being too young or small and not strong enough to draw a bow is not a medical condition.
My dad knew when it was time to stop hunting when he could no longer hold his rifle steady and his eyesight wasn't so good even wearing glasses.
I can't run a marathon anymore so maybe I should ask to be allowed to wear roller skates. My wife's grandmother in Virginia City couldn't keep her car in her own lane, maybe she should have asked them to make the streets wider.
Just because we can't do something we could do when we were younger doesn't mean we should be given or ask for special consideration.
highplainsdrifter
Very Active Member
So you are saying that someone who can't steadily draw a compound bow...including youth, women and seniors (who don't otherwise have a medical condition) should not be allowed to use a crossbow during archery season? That is blatant discrimination and highly offensive!!
Hilltop
Veteran member
Can't resist;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqmQsNffiro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP38tYhyhW0
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjPv_P5lvHYAhWP71MKHc4ZBAYQFggpMAA&url=https://bowhunting360.com/2017/04/17/bowhunting-lifetime-sport-just-ask-80-year-old-bowhunter-bob-delaney/&usg=AOvVaw1RlmwK4WFRJcYb7XuHnslZ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqmQsNffiro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP38tYhyhW0
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjPv_P5lvHYAhWP71MKHc4ZBAYQFggpMAA&url=https://bowhunting360.com/2017/04/17/bowhunting-lifetime-sport-just-ask-80-year-old-bowhunter-bob-delaney/&usg=AOvVaw1RlmwK4WFRJcYb7XuHnslZ
WapitiBob
Veteran member
I'm still waiting to see one piece of Wyoming data that shows they should move them out of the archery season.
Colorado T
Active Member
It is not discriminating, unfortunately that is life. Just because you can't do something doesn't mean you should be given an advantage over others to do it. Anything with a mechanical means of holding the string, with bipods and optics is not archery to me. I have shot both and do believe that there is an advantage to a crossbow. I don't care one way or another what Wyoming decides to do, if it is legal than have fun and be safe. As I have stated before, there may be a lot not right in Colorado but I believe this is one they have correct. Just my opinion.
The youth and women argument just doesn't add up for me. I have three boys who have been shooting archery since they were old enough to hold a bow and slowly worked up until they were proficient. My wife just started shooting in the last two years and has gotten better and stronger as she shoots more.
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CrimsonArrow
Very Active Member
I agree with Colorado T. The kids will grow bigger and stronger, and even the smallest women can build enough strength to draw the minimum legal poundage with enough practice. Using a crossbow is simply a shortcut. That being said, I also don't care what Wyoming decides to do about this matter, as long as we are able to discuss the pro's and con's in all honesty.
Horsenhike
Very Active Member
Your comment is incredibly offensive to women. Women are weak and need special accommodations is your point?
Zim
Very Active Member
johnsd & other harvest skeptics,
If you seriously don?t think ultimately there will be no difference in harvest success, just do a quick Google search of Illinois bow harvest results for this season compared to in the past. Our first raping of a previously protected rut. Then you defend those stats! Good luck.
I?d look it up for you but I?m at work outside in Milwaukee.
If you seriously don?t think ultimately there will be no difference in harvest success, just do a quick Google search of Illinois bow harvest results for this season compared to in the past. Our first raping of a previously protected rut. Then you defend those stats! Good luck.
I?d look it up for you but I?m at work outside in Milwaukee.
highplainsdrifter
Very Active Member
Archery hunting proliferated in the 1960s and 70s. At the time (and for a couple of decades after) it was predominately a man's sport. Some of the good ole boys on here are still resisting change. It's time to move on. The world is no longer flat!!