Why the animosity?

BKC

Very Active Member
Feb 15, 2012
817
149
The high plains of Colorado
Farmers pay for crop insurance every year, and like most with insurance it isn't used very often. Also, if they are able to "double dip" as you say, they are withheld a certain amount but are paid the input costs of what they has incurred to that point prior to planting second crop, according to the article you presented.

Others are saying farmers get paid to plant nothing and then refer to crp.(speaking specifically about farmers that raise crops) CRP is a costly program to implement and upkeep. Those fields have to be kept up to a certain level and costs are no longer shared in the new program. Previously they were up to 50 percent. Certain weeds, and tree infestations controls have to be kept up. This is costly whether one does it during the program or they decide to do it when it comes out, which is against the contract. I have experience with both and by the time one has done all that needs to be done to keep the land in farmable condition when it comes out of program or to get it farmable when it comes out is very costly, speaking only in monetary terms. By the time one factors in time along with all the expenses one gets close to the 15 dollar an hour minimum wage the liberals want, as the take home on the property.
Not all farmers buy insurance on any of their crop or some of their crop. Some farmers farm their land, others farm the insurance company. I have witnessed what some farmers call farming and the games that are played with their crop loss.

I understand the crp program. I also see the work put into the ground to keep it in the program. What about the emergency use of the ground during droughts that let ranchers graze? If crp ground was not a money maker than why does it bring so much when it sells? I also know the games played to keep it in the program.

I am not bashing the farmer or rancher. They are last ones that need my animosity. I am just saying in all walks of life, there are people wanting something for nothing.
 

87TT

Active Member
Apr 23, 2013
412
465
Idaho
It is just special interest greed, period They can already charge to hunt there so why do they need more free s**t.
 

Shane13

Active Member
Aug 8, 2012
232
77
Abilene, Texas
The negative encounters hunters sometimes have with landowners who are jerks toward hunters are often the result of experiences that landowners have had with hunters trespassing on their private property. Which came first? The chicken or the egg? Vicious cycle.
 

MTHusker

Member
Apr 22, 2013
136
15
Exactly. So why the tag give away to ranchers?
My opinion, elk create many headaches on a farm or ranch, to allow a landowner to sponsor a handful of tags if they meet the criteria that is set forward in the bill, good for them. A person deserves to be compensated for the use of their land. Hunting is big business, even more so elk hunting, if you care to ignore that, so be it. We have NR paying the state $1000 + for the privilege to hunt them. Like I stated earlier, why the animosity to landowners? They provide habitat and feed thru out a lot of the year, even all year in some areas. I understand being envious and jealous, sadly it is a trait displayed more and more in this country. That still does not make it right.
 
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buckbull

Veteran member
Jun 20, 2011
1,700
733
My opinion, elk create many headaches on a farm or ranch, to allow a landowner to sponsor a handful of tags if they meet the criteria that is set forward in the bill, good for them. A person deserves to be compensated for the use of their land. Hunting is big business, even more so elk hunting, if you care to ignore that, so be it. We have NR paying the state $1000 + for the privilege to hunt them. Like I stated earlier, why the animosity to landowners? They provide habitat and feed thru out a lot of the year, even all year in some areas. I understand being envious and jealous, sadly it is a trait displayed more and more in this country. That still does not make it right.
The bill is nothing more than a way to hijack the current process so that more and more tags go to ranchers and outfitters who can then turn each tag into more and more money. It begins and ends with greed and screws the regular joe out of even more tags that should be available to the public at large and not some special interest group. People say "auction tags are great" because they provide a whole lot of money for wildlife. Sure, the provide money. They also provide a way for the megarich to bypass waiting their turn for tags. That's what its all about. Now the ranches/outfitters want a guaranteed way to profit from the wildlife at the expense of others.

I'm not sure why you think I have animosity towards landowners. I simply see this as a tag stealing ploy based in greed and don't agree with your opinion. You came on here asking for folks opinions, don't bitch because you don't like what folks have to say.
 

kidoggy

Veteran member
Apr 23, 2016
7,550
7,252
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idaho
I've have had ranchers threaten me and try to run me off public land on a few different occasions.

I've also had a ranchers vandalize my treestand because he didn't want me hunting close to his property.

I've seen multiple different ranchers post public land.

Stuff like this is what turns the public against them.
there is one rancher here who does that and every one in the county knows who I am talking about.
 

DoubleDropMuley

Active Member
Apr 18, 2020
183
220
Farmers/Ranchers have there place for sure, but as mentioned I do not think they should be entitled to hunt tags, enter the drawing with the rest of us. And another thing that really chaps my cheeks is they can land lock public land but when I’m in country I have access to hunt public land and it’s full of cattle, nothing worse than hitting a trail before light and slipping on a fresh cow pie !! 🤣
 
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Winchester

Veteran member
Mar 27, 2014
2,112
1,426
Woodland Park, Colorado
I’ve been reading these posts.
It seems like ranchers dislike hunters for leaving gates open etc and hunters dislike ranchers for trying to run them off public land and such.
So that’s kind of a draw.
Now ranchers want free tags for their property. Seems like hunters should get something to balance things back out. How about any rancher that takes free tags must then permit any hunter with a tag for that unit to hunt his ranch.
Problem solved !!
 

Fink

Veteran member
Apr 7, 2011
1,959
190
West Side, MoMo
Quite a few valid points in here. I think often times, farmers/ranchers are their own worst enemies. As a public land hunter/agricultural farm owner, I'd like to think I can see things from both points of views.
As a land owner, it's exasperating to deal with people that think they have the right to trespass, the right to steal from you, the right to take advantage of your owned land.
As a public land owner, it's disgusting to see landowners cry about crop damage, but not allow people to hunt their ground. It's unreal that states allow unit wide tags for people that own miniscule acreage within a unit. It's obscene at the amount of federal monies many of these welfare queens rake in.. Whats worse, a single mom collecting $10-15 grand of 'welfare' money a year, or a guy thats got a net worth of $15m, collecting $100k in crop subsidies annually?

Here's one of my favorites.. This idiot south of me paints on a semi trailer "Are you a producer or a parasite? Democrats: party of the parasites"
Someone got a little offended, did some digging, and found out the dude has collected over $1m in crop subsidies over the years. I'd say he's one hell of a parasite.

From a strict hunting/land usage perspective, I think it's pretty easy to clean up: Landowners deserve free tags for the wildlife that live off their land, but those tags should be valid on the property only. Landowners can potentially deserve compensation for crop damage, especially if the state is negligent in herd management - but, you better be allowing law abiding hunters the opportunity to hunt game on your land before you're entitled to compensation.
Hunters have to understand that private ground is private ground - just cause you have animosity towards those that own it, doesnt give you the right to access it without permission - everyone needs to respect boundaries, whether those boundaries are for public or private land
 

CrimsonArrow

Very Active Member
Feb 21, 2011
771
206
Minnesota
I think you are confusing two different things - Ranchers and Landowners. Sometimes they are the same fella, sometimes not. I don’t see any issue with throwing landowners a bone based on what their property supports.
I don’t like when they’re transferable though. Landowner tags should be limited to immediate family members. Too easy to monetize hunting as it is
 

kidoggy

Veteran member
Apr 23, 2016
7,550
7,252
54
idaho
Not all farmers buy insurance on any of their crop or some of their crop. Some farmers farm their land, others farm the insurance company. I have witnessed what some farmers call farming and the games that are played with their crop loss.

I understand the crp program. I also see the work put into the ground to keep it in the program. What about the emergency use of the ground during droughts that let ranchers graze? If crp ground was not a money maker than why does it bring so much when it sells? I also know the games played to keep it in the program.

I am not bashing the farmer or rancher. They are last ones that need my animosity. I am just saying in all walks of life, there are people wanting something for nothing.
one thing I have never seen people think about is it is in the interest of the farmer to let the land set idle every seven years or so. it is even in the bible for them to do so.

wouldn't mind seeing someone more knowledgible on this subject then I , explain this or correct me if I am wrong???
 

kidoggy

Veteran member
Apr 23, 2016
7,550
7,252
54
idaho
Quite a few valid points in here. I think often times, farmers/ranchers are their own worst enemies. As a public land hunter/agricultural farm owner, I'd like to think I can see things from both points of views.
As a land owner, it's exasperating to deal with people that think they have the right to trespass, the right to steal from you, the right to take advantage of your owned land.
As a public land owner, it's disgusting to see landowners cry about crop damage, but not allow people to hunt their ground. It's unreal that states allow unit wide tags for people that own miniscule acreage within a unit. It's obscene at the amount of federal monies many of these welfare queens rake in.. Whats worse, a single mom collecting $10-15 grand of 'welfare' money a year, or a guy thats got a net worth of $15m, collecting $100k in crop subsidies annually?

Here's one of my favorites.. This idiot south of me paints on a semi trailer "Are you a producer or a parasite? Democrats: party of the parasites"
Someone got a little offended, did some digging, and found out the dude has collected over $1m in crop subsidies over the years. I'd say he's one hell of a parasite.

From a strict hunting/land usage perspective, I think it's pretty easy to clean up: Landowners deserve free tags for the wildlife that live off their land, but those tags should be valid on the property only. Landowners can potentially deserve compensation for crop damage, especially if the state is negligent in herd management - but, you better be allowing law abiding hunters the opportunity to hunt game on your land before you're entitled to compensation.
Hunters have to understand that private ground is private ground - just cause you have animosity towards those that own it, doesnt give you the right to access it without permission - everyone needs to respect boundaries, whether those boundaries are for public or private land
you are right landowners can be their own worst enemy . same as we hunters are often our own worst enemy. to get friendship and respect one must first also give the same.

I know A woman here in idaho who owns just a small acerage maybe 50 or so and the stories she has told me of hunter disrespect is appalling. she was hanging laundry , heard a thunk and turned to see an arrow stuck in the wall of her house.
she came home and there was a hunter in her corral trying to catch her horse .

she asked what in the hell he was doing. he answered , I killed a deer and was trying to catch the horse to pack it out.
in disgust , she told him , if you can catch him you can use him.

she the went inside and 15 or so minutes later this dumbass knocks on her door and says he can't catch it and can she help.

she just shut the door in his face .


I literally spent an entire afternoon with her ,telling me such stories..

so yes , I can also see both sides , which is why I feel no animosity but great respect towards the majority of landowners.

sure their are some landowners who are total jackwads but same can be said of hunters also.
 

DoubleDropMuley

Active Member
Apr 18, 2020
183
220
you are right landowners can be their own worst enemy . same as we hunters are often our own worst enemy. to get friendship and respect one must first also give the same.

I know A woman here in idaho who owns just a small acerage maybe 50 or so and the stories she has told me of hunter disrespect is appalling. she was hanging laundry , heard a thunk and turned to see an arrow stuck in the wall of her house.
she came home and there was a hunter in her corral trying to catch her horse .

she asked what in the hell he was doing. he answered , I killed a deer and was trying to catch the horse to pack it out.
in disgust , she told him , if you can catch him you can use him.

she the went inside and 15 or so minutes later this dumbass knocks on her door and says he can't catch it and can she help.

she just shut the door in his face .


I literally spent an entire afternoon with her ,telling me such stories..

so yes , I can also see both sides , which is why I feel no animosity but great respect towards the majority of landowners.

sure their are some landowners who are total jackwads but same can be said of hunters also.
Haha I would have helped him, I would have saddled him up throw him a set of panniers and say there ya go!! Then fed the horse ! Some people 🤦‍♂️
 
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Rich M

Active Member
Oct 16, 2012
451
236
It's called greed and envy. Bunch of folks with no real self identity or purpose in life beyond wanting what others have and thinking they should get it too.

Farming and ranching is tough.
 

DoubleDropMuley

Active Member
Apr 18, 2020
183
220
It's called greed and envy. Bunch of folks with no real self identity or purpose in life beyond wanting what others have and thinking they should get it too.

Farming and ranching is tough.
Don’t call it greed or envy, life is tough, can’t cut it you switch directions, hand outs of any kind such as tags that should be in reach everyone In the draws not just handed to farmers/ranchers or just landowners to make money off of , makes no sense!!
 
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Rich M

Active Member
Oct 16, 2012
451
236
Don’t call it greed or envy, life is tough, can’t cut it you switch directions, hand outs of any kind such as tags that should be in reach everyone In the draws not just handed to farmers/ranchers or just landowners to make money off of , makes no sense!!
To say they should give everyone access is the same as you telling everyone - come and play in my backyard, pool, 40 acres or whatever. You likely claim homestead or whatever is locally available to reduce your taxes (I know I do) - so the land should have public use. Right?

Lotsa folks speak out one way or another and do nothing else. They demand stuff cause it "feels right" that they should get what they think they should get.

To change the current laws takes time, effort, and focus. You need to get out there and earn the respect and then offer creative solutions that don't offend folks or burn bridges. If not willing to dedicate yourself to the purpose of changing stuff (beyond just saying it aint right), then you/I/we have to play the game within the rules provided.

I'm okay with ranchers doing their thing. Just let me get the 2 or 3 more DIY public land hunts I want in my lifetime is all I ask.
 

DoubleDropMuley

Active Member
Apr 18, 2020
183
220
To say they should give everyone access is the same as you telling everyone - come and play in my backyard, pool, 40 acres or whatever. You likely claim homestead or whatever is locally available to reduce your taxes (I know I do) - so the land should have public use. Right?

Lotsa folks speak out one way or another and do nothing else. They demand stuff cause it "feels right" that they should get what they think they should get.

To change the current laws takes time, effort, and focus. You need to get out there and earn the respect and then offer creative solutions that don't offend folks or burn bridges. If not willing to dedicate yourself to the purpose of changing stuff (beyond just saying it aint right), then you/I/we have to play the game within the rules provided.

I'm okay with ranchers doing their thing. Just let me get the 2 or 3 more DIY public land hunts I want in my lifetime is all I ask.
I play the game every year and I donate to the access program, and when I draw tags I use the walk-in and HMAs available, and I do enjoy our DIY public opportunities, my problem is these guys blocking off thousands of acres of public land and using it for there own finicial gain. Sell there landowner tags ect.. and those people that buy these can access those public lands and so can the landowners buy it’s still the public’s land that is non reachable to most, yet the get to run there cows and sheep all over the National Forest and public lands. You got the land so raise your animals there , manage it to support your animals ya need more buy more. Nothing sucks more than getting up to 10000 feet and seen they ran there sheep through there and got the game animals stirred up!! Ranchers have there place for sure but that place should be in there land IMO
 
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DoubleDropMuley

Active Member
Apr 18, 2020
183
220
And what gets me a lot of the walk-in areas that I’ve tried to use don’t have the species I’m pursuing, so I believe they give access from our money to the most unproductive parts of there land!! Hmmm, And if theses access areas we pay for do have the species which I’m sure they do at one point or another but they get ran out early or just not the populations to justify paying for access .