Why the animosity?

RICMIC

Veteran member
Feb 21, 2012
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Two Harbors, Minnesota
The Conservation Reserve Program (CRP) has ebbed and flowed over the years and has a big impact on game habitat in farming areas. Politics and especially the economics of corn based ethanol influence the acres enrolled in the program. I'm not a farmer, and can't say that I even know any. As far as ranchers in the western states; I have good friends who own a ranch, and I don't know of anyone who works harder, 7 days a week than they do. They don't own much land, but their property has the only reasonable access to winter elk range, and they freely allow access without charging anyone. They do lease grazing land, and anyone who draws a tag is able to hunt there.
 

BKC

Very Active Member
Feb 15, 2012
827
157
The high plains of Colorado
Govt. subsidized farming and non farming , ranching and non ranching pales in comparison to social welfare system in this country. If you have animosity toward a farmer or rancher then you must really hate the rest of america!
 
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HuskyMusky

Veteran member
Nov 29, 2011
1,323
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IL
farmers around here cry poor and have more money than anyone! they pay cash at land auctions etc...

I had a local farmer complaining about the "death tax" he has 1400 acres around here, which easily would fetch 10k/acre.

and I'm nodding my head listening to him, then as I'm driving home I'm thinking, that death tax doesn't kick in until after you inherit 10million tax free! so he's complaining that his son is gonna inherit this successful family business and gonna have to pay tax on all that money he inherits after 10 million!? some people.
 

JimP

Administrator
Mar 28, 2016
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Gypsum, Co
The thing with the death tax is that there are ways around it to where the person who get the property can get it tax free.

Same with just about any other property where people are afraid that their kids are going to have to pay 3/4's of the estates value in taxes.

But on farmers pleading poverty, I have a good friend who is a rancher/farmer. He always has a new truck every couple of years along with anew car for his wife, a nice home that is paid for and all the toys that a person could want.
 

MTHusker

Member
Apr 22, 2013
136
15
Ranchers and farmers are already the biggest welfare recipients by a very large margin, why do they need more handouts in the way of game permits?

Ranchers and farmers are able to lease federal lands for pennies on the dollar, why do they need more handouts in the way of game permits?

Ranchers and farmers do not pay sales tax on farming related items in some states, why do they need more handouts in the way of game permits?

Ranchers and farmers received a $23 billion dollar handout last year from the Trump administration, why do they need more handouts in the way of game permits?

We have a small local restaurant in town where alot of the farmers meet for breakfast every morning. They are all driving brand new 3/4 ton diesel crew trucks and then bitch all morning about how broke they are. Its in the farmers blood to bitch about how broke they are.
Would you please provide data and source of data on your statement, thanks.
 

buckbull

Veteran member
Jun 20, 2011
2,130
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So just because someone is a rancher they should be entitled to elk permits which can then be sold to outfitters? What about giving a bunch of permits to some disabled veterans? How about we set aside a bunch more for first responders, lord knows they deserve them. How about we take a bunch more and give them to minorities? Maybe take a few more and give them to folks who are caring for their dependent adult children? I could give every permit available to folks that "deserve" them. The problem is that there are not enough permits for everyone that wants one. I just dont understand the I'm a rancher and deserve these permits over anyone else in the application pool.
 

kidoggy

Veteran member
Apr 23, 2016
9,646
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idaho
Govt. subsidized farming and non farming , ranching and non ranching pales in comparison to social welfare system in this country. If you have animosity toward a farmer or rancher then you must really hate the rest of america!
I don't hate most farmers but I will freely admit I have nothing but disgust for most americans and many in agriculture are included in that outlook.

I believe farm/ranchers should have the right to chose who / wether or not they will allow access.
IF I had a ranch ,I would be pretty particular about who I allowed on it so I can't blame them when they do it.
that said , when the farmer /rancher starts taking gov handouts I believe their rights to chose to keep folks out should end .

once they are dipping in the taxpayers wallet that ranch should be considered public domain.

don't like it ? live or die by your own means and stop taking the handouts!!!!!!
 
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D_Dubya

Active Member
Aug 8, 2012
455
972
South Texas
So just because someone is a rancher they should be entitled to elk permits which can then be sold to outfitters? What about giving a bunch of permits to some disabled veterans? How about we set aside a bunch more for first responders, lord knows they deserve them. How about we take a bunch more and give them to minorities? Maybe take a few more and give them to folks who are caring for their dependent adult children? I could give every permit available to folks that "deserve" them. The problem is that there are not enough permits for everyone that wants one. I just dont understand the I'm a rancher and deserve these permits over anyone else in the application pool.
I think you are confusing two different things - Ranchers and Landowners. Sometimes they are the same fella, sometimes not. I don’t see any issue with throwing landowners a bone based on what their property supports.
 

BKC

Very Active Member
Feb 15, 2012
827
157
The high plains of Colorado
So just because someone is a rancher they should be entitled to elk permits which can then be sold to outfitters? What about giving a bunch of permits to some disabled veterans? How about we set aside a bunch more for first responders, lord knows they deserve them. How about we take a bunch more and give them to minorities? Maybe take a few more and give them to folks who are caring for their dependent adult children? I could give every permit available to folks that "deserve" them. The problem is that there are not enough permits for everyone that wants one. I just dont understand the I'm a rancher and deserve these permits over anyone else in the application pool.
All those people you mention can hunt on public land like you and I. Who determines who is deserving. If you want what they have, go to bed earlier, get up earlier, work harder and put some money away and go get what they have.
 

kidoggy

Veteran member
Apr 23, 2016
9,646
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idaho
All those people you mention can hunt on public land like you and I. Who determines who is deserving. If you want what they have, go to bed earlier, get up earlier, work harder and put some money away and go get what they have.
there was a time when that WAS the american way! sadly it is no longer so.
 
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buckbull

Veteran member
Jun 20, 2011
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All those people you mention can hunt on public land like you and I. Who determines who is deserving. If you want what they have, go to bed earlier, get up earlier, work harder and put some money away and go get what they have.
Exactly. So why the tag give away to ranchers?
 

Micah S

Active Member
Jan 11, 2016
377
771
Sandy Oregon
I've have had ranchers threaten me and try to run me off public land on a few different occasions.

I've also had a ranchers vandalize my treestand because he didn't want me hunting close to his property.

I've seen multiple different ranchers post public land.

Stuff like this is what turns the public against them.
 
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buckbull

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Jun 20, 2011
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Here in Colorado they don't give the RFW tags away, the ranches have to buy them just like everyone else. They just don't have to draw for them.
Yeah. I get it. But the biggest cost for folks is not the price of the tag but the opportunity for the tag. I just dont think tags should be taken out of the pool of tags for special interest groups. Not a fan of auction tags either which allow the mega rich the opportunity to cut in line.
 
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Colorado Cowboy

Super Moderator
Jun 8, 2011
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Dolores, Colorado
Yeah. I get it. But the biggest cost for folks is not the price of the tag but the opportunity for the tag. I just dont think tags should be taken out of the pool of tags for special interest groups. Not a fan of auction tags either which allow the mega rich the opportunity to cut in line.
No disagreement with that here!
 
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Willy

New Member
Jan 25, 2021
3
8
Farmers take advantage of this and its bullshit.....they are double dipping....They claim that they cant get their corn in the ground, take a handout, then plant beans and take the profit from that when it is harvested.
Farmers pay for crop insurance every year, and like most with insurance it isn't used very often. Also, if they are able to "double dip" as you say, they are withheld a certain amount but are paid the input costs of what they has incurred to that point prior to planting second crop, according to the article you presented.

Others are saying farmers get paid to plant nothing and then refer to crp.(speaking specifically about farmers that raise crops) CRP is a costly program to implement and upkeep. Those fields have to be kept up to a certain level and costs are no longer shared in the new program. Previously they were up to 50 percent. Certain weeds, and tree infestations controls have to be kept up. This is costly whether one does it during the program or they decide to do it when it comes out, which is against the contract. I have experience with both and by the time one has done all that needs to be done to keep the land in farmable condition when it comes out of program or to get it farmable when it comes out is very costly, speaking only in monetary terms. By the time one factors in time along with all the expenses one gets close to the 15 dollar an hour minimum wage the liberals want, as the take home on the property.

Ranchers, whom I'll define as those that only raise animals for a living don't have much for subsidies to keep them floating. They live and die by the markets.

Cheap food is made possible by these farmers and ranchers that the government keeps in line with all their programs. These programs shouldn't be the reason to hate/dislike ag producers.

If you don't like as a whole, farmers/ranchers for not giving permission to hunt or fish, that is nuts. I get not liking ones that effed up your hunts on private land, hate them, not all. Also, hate the slob hunters whom are part of your/our group, hunters who have ruined the opportunities on thousands if not millions of acres because of actions described in previous posts.

Make friends with one farmer/rancher, work with them on their land, help each other get to know one another and perhaps you will have a place to hunt besides public.

No sugar coating here, It is getting tougher to find places to hunt. Leasing, habitat torn out for development or to farm, burned landowners from previous hunters, horrible publicized poaching stories, and over burdened public land all have a part to play in this.

Hunting is dying in my opinion and no one is sadder about this than I. I think many realize this and it has colored their attitude and how they present it, on hunting forums and anywhere else.
 

D_Dubya

Active Member
Aug 8, 2012
455
972
South Texas
Farmers pay for crop insurance every year, and like most with insurance it isn't used very often. Also, if they are able to "double dip" as you say, they are withheld a certain amount but are paid the input costs of what they has incurred to that point prior to planting second crop, according to the article you presented.

Others are saying farmers get paid to plant nothing and then refer to crp.(speaking specifically about farmers that raise crops) CRP is a costly program to implement and upkeep. Those fields have to be kept up to a certain level and costs are no longer shared in the new program. Previously they were up to 50 percent. Certain weeds, and tree infestations controls have to be kept up. This is costly whether one does it during the program or they decide to do it when it comes out, which is against the contract. I have experience with both and by the time one has done all that needs to be done to keep the land in farmable condition when it comes out of program or to get it farmable when it comes out is very costly, speaking only in monetary terms. By the time one factors in time along with all the expenses one gets close to the 15 dollar an hour minimum wage the liberals want, as the take home on the property.

Ranchers, whom I'll define as those that only raise animals for a living don't have much for subsidies to keep them floating. They live and die by the markets.

Cheap food is made possible by these farmers and ranchers that the government keeps in line with all their programs. These programs shouldn't be the reason to hate/dislike ag producers.

If you don't like as a whole, farmers/ranchers for not giving permission to hunt or fish, that is nuts. I get not liking ones that effed up your hunts on private land, hate them, not all. Also, hate the slob hunters whom are part of your/our group, hunters who have ruined the opportunities on thousands if not millions of acres because of actions described in previous posts.

Make friends with one farmer/rancher, work with them on their land, help each other get to know one another and perhaps you will have a place to hunt besides public.

No sugar coating here, It is getting tougher to find places to hunt. Leasing, habitat torn out for development or to farm, burned landowners from previous hunters, horrible publicized poaching stories, and over burdened public land all have a part to play in this.

Hunting is dying in my opinion and no one is sadder about this than I. I think many realize this and it has colored their attitude and how they present it, on hunting forums and anywhere else.
Well said. I am not an expert on it but without ag subsidies to keep production level and stable our food prices and availability would fluctuate wildly. And no, everyone can’t survive by eating game meat, it takes big time ag with tremendous production to feed 330 million Americans. Of course, there are those who game the system and are true scumbags - true in every profession. I guess the guys who have such dislike for farmers because government subsidies also despise those in the medical field, commercial construction, aviation, etc..
 

buckbull

Veteran member
Jun 20, 2011
2,130
1,303
My only gripe is subsidies paid out as access to permits and tags. Almost everyone is on the take, I claim mortgage interest on my taxes. Retirees rely on social security and medicare. All considered "welfare" programs by the feds. As the grandson of a dairy farmer I understand the struggles. I did the evening milking for about 15 years straight until I graduated from college, put up thousands upon thousands of bales of hay and straw, and ruined my hearing running a corn chopper for silage. I just draw the line at yet another attempt by a group of folks that think they are entitled to these permits more than anyone else.