PRESSURE- A Question for the Public Land "Older Guys"

Bonecollector · Nov 26, 2018

I agree with ALL the reasons you listed. And I agree with them in the order you have them listed as be the biggest factor to the smallest factor.
There are less people hunting, but there is much less land to do so.

btw: I am younger than 50 but hopefully my information is useful.

dirtclod Az. · Nov 26, 2018

I quit Javelina in Az.There are more ATVs and Jeep Tours than Pigs!
When does ATV season start?

highplainsdrifter · Nov 26, 2018

Yes, there is pressure but...

>Much of it is near the season opener
>It is worse on weekends (I am retired and avoid weekends when amateur recreationists are out and about

)
>Much of it is close to the road
>Hunters are getting older and lazier
>Still, I'd rather hunt public land (my land) than private land

Colorado Cowboy · Nov 26, 2018

I started hunting when I was 7 (doves/ducks) in 1948 and I have seen lots of changes in everything you mentioned.

When I was young, I mostly hunted in California. There was lots of land to hunt, both public & private and a fewer hunters. I only hunted out of state a few times until 1980, when I started hunting Wyoming on a regular basis. Tags were cheap and easy to get. I really started to see big changes in California in the 70's. Less hunting available, less access to private & public land and more hunters crowded onto available land. Hunting upland game suffered first, as most of the area we hunted was pretty close to home. More houses, shopping centers & roads resulted in almost all of the land we hunted being unavailable.

Big game hunting suffered too. What I have noticed more is the fluctuation in big game numbers. Over harvesting and weather cycles have really had an impact. I recent years more off road vehicles too.

I also think the number of hunters have increased in certain areas due to "commercialization" . Internet, outdoors/hunting shows on tv and more Outdoor shows at big venues. Hunting, fishing, rving & boating is attracting more affluent users. When I was in my 40's I hunted Wyoming and Colorado. It was unusual to license plates from eastern states, now very common. Back then everyone had a tent, now it's rvs towing trailers with generators & ohvs.

The local big game units near my home place are a zoo during the otc seasons. I refuse to hunt them. I have found a few areas that require few points to draw and are "off the radar" so to speak. I keep them pretty quiet as to location. When I hunt Wyoming I only hunt after opening to get away from the crowds. I've been here in Colorado for 19 years and have seen lots of changes in access to private land. Lots of land I had permission to hunt is now unavailable and leased to outfitters. Same in Wyoming. Definitely has had an impact on crowding.

I see access, cost of tags and numbers of tags available as being a continuing problem that will probably get worse. I know my hunting years are getting fewer and I'll never see the "good old days" of the 50's & 60's again. I just feel lucky that I had the opportunity to experience them.

Tim McCoy · Nov 26, 2018

Any general season without tag limits has the potential to be a zoo, sometimes tag limits don't help either. Yet I hunt some that are not too bad. I think most of the reasons mentioned are contributors. The main two to me are less private land access now than 30-40 years ago and many more hunters hunting multiple states.

I know in the last 20 ish years I've been known to hunt 3,4,5 states in one season. Prior to that it was one state a year for me with two hunts, deer and elk. I can recall my first hunt 48 years ago, OR had a general deer season, no limited tags, my hunt in some of OR's best deer/elk country in Grant county was zoo.

Winchester · Nov 26, 2018

I agree with the comments above.

Personally I believe "access", or the lack of access, is one of the primary factors.
Lots of private land that you used to be able to get access to just by asking the landowner is now unavailable, either leased to outfitters or you must pay huge access/trespass fees that most won't pay.
Point creep is also a big deal in some states and limits access to limited draw areas forcing more folks onto OTC areas.

BuzzH · Nov 26, 2018

Pretty broad topic and I think it depends on where and how a person hunted 30 years ago.

The place I grew up hunting in Montana receives wayyyy less pressure than it did when I started hunting there 38 years ago. Back then, all the roads were open to driving, and people drove them all, all the time. Now, with the road closures, the pressure is substantially less.

But, in general, I think public land is getting hammered pretty hard for a variety of reasons, many of them already stated.

I think private land leasing and outfitting have had a big impact. The number of outfitters operating on public land has also increased over the years as well.

The new "foodie" movement promoted by some of the big name hunters to go out and kill your own organic food has also helped step up the pressure on public land. Most of the hunters that hunt for the food value, aren't going to pay an outfitter, pay for a lease, or even a trespass fee...would defeat the whole purpose of "low cost" organic food.

I agree that the number of hunters is declining, but the number that take it seriously has risen. Its already been stated, but growing up in Western Montana, I didn't think the world of hunting/fishing existed outside the border of my home state. I never hunted as a NR until I sheep hunted Alaska in 1995...since then, I've hunted/fished NM, AZ, ID, WY, CO, AK, MT, British Columbia, OR, WA, ND with plans to add some more states.

I think the technology increase with onx and the GPS has also upped the pressure on public lands, in particular the smaller parcels. In the past, you had to know how to read a map to have any kind of confidence to hunt individual sections or even gain access to larger parcels via small easements. Not now, anyone with a couple hundred bucks has all the technology they need to have 100% confidence in where they're hunting.

Then there's just the fact that the younger crowd of serious hunters are better equipped, hike further, and are just plain tough. I was talking to a good friend that lives in Augusta Montana about this a few weeks ago. Like he said, "a person can have a complete camp on their back...sleeping bag, tent, pad, stove, fuel, etc. and all that weighs about the same as just my sleeping bag did back when I was trying to backpack hunt". Not to mention the better boots, better optics, better clothing, better shooting rifles, all that allows the serious backcountry public land hunter to stay longer, hike back further, and be more comfortable doing so. Oh, and from a price comparison stand-point all the better equipment is cheaper today than 30-40 years ago.

But, all that said, there are still a metric chit ton of places where a person using their abilities and smarts can find quality, low pressure hunting experiences on public lands. I think many times, people forget or have selective memories on what it was really like 30-40 years ago. I think many are also stuck in a rut not trying different things and adapting to what's available. That includes timing your hunts, taking vacation to allow hunting during the week, etc. etc.

I just got back last night from a solo public land whitetail hunt in Wyoming...and it was awesome, managed to take 2 bucks and never saw a single hunter off a road or out of a vehicle. Yet, all I hear about the area(s) in question is how over-run it is with people....the only thing over running the places I hunted, is deer.

Slugz · Nov 26, 2018

I'll echo the same things that Buzz lists above.......with the following.

1) Technology now a days makes research lot easier and I think gets more people into the easy to access areas.
2) That same data base though allows me to know....where the zoo is gonna be in my opinion
3) Hunting an OTC area is just plain tough period.....factor in weather and its more times than not.....impossible to plan
4) Today more than ever having a primary plan, secondary and tertiary plan usually gets its done

Lastly I think.....with no data to back it up other than what I've seen the last 10 years here in Colorado......I think 80% of the hunters I run into only have a primary plan, put little or no effort into back up plans and dont really hunt past 4 days in the field. They get frustrated easy, cant deal with weather and just plain mentally worn out and are sorely prepared.

Add in more humans to the mix and all bets are off. Each state has its own pros and cons for the guy/gal that wants to see what I listed in a earlier post.....screaming animals and meat.

tim · Nov 26, 2018

Where I otc hunt in Idaho. the season used to be oct 10-nov 3rd. Now it is oct 10-oct 24th. I don't know if there are more guys out or if the same amount of guys are being squeezed into a shorter season. With that said. I did see less guys this year than other years. Not much less, but less.

Colorado Cowboy · Nov 26, 2018

tim said:
Where I otc hunt in Idaho. the season used to be oct 10-nov 3rd. Now it is oct 10-oct 24th. I don't know if there are more guys out or if the same amount of guys are being squeezed into a shorter season. With that said. I did see less guys this year than other years. Not much less, but less.

You are right there. When I was young the deer season started the 3rd Sat in Sept and lasted until Oct 31.

kidoggy · Nov 26, 2018

mallardsx2 said:
Not knocking your age, but rather seeking your knowledge and would like to hear from some of you guys who are older (50+ club) on what your thoughts are on the pressure that public ground is receiving right now.

I did a few hunts this year on public ground and I can honestly say that the amount of pressure they received during the gun season was pure insanity to say the least. To the point where it was laughable in some cases. Literally I made myself laugh to keep from getting pissed off several times this season.

Was it like this 30 years ago? It just seems that there is an extreme overcrowding issue going on with the public ground of the west during gun season.

What do you guys feel caused this and got us to this point??

Closure to private ground?
Outfitting?
Leasing?
YouTube?
Magazines?

"Experts" say that hunter numbers are declining. That may be possible but it appears that the pressure just keeps getting more and more on public ground.

I have talked to several guys I know who used to hunt "the west" and most of them stopped hunting due to the overcrowding of public land.

For the sake of argument lets just say that "Hunt harder or further from the truck" statement doesn't apply to me.

Curious as to all of your thoughts.

it's been a complete shitshow here in idaho my entire life, but to be honest ,I think the pressure is actually decreasing from what it was in my youth . there was a time every campsite was taken. this year many campgrounds were virtually empty .didn't really seem to be that many out hunting.

one thing that I do think has changed though is ,it seems there are more people in the backcountry then used to be. was a time when ,if you were willing to get a mile or two from the roads you didn't see many people, not so much nowadays .

bigsky2 · Nov 26, 2018

I'm only 30, but even I have seen the change. I agree with the previous reasons - mapping technologies, private lands being leased or locked up, better gear making hunting easier and more comfortable to stay out in the elements, etc. It might not seem like hunter numbers are decreasing with all the people you see on public, but it wouldn't surprise me if its true. Many places are being leased or locked up, and studies have shown the number one reason why people quit hunting is lack of access. The quality of the public land hunting experience seems to gradually get worse every year.

Sadly, in most states the management hasn't adapted to the changing times. I don't see it getting any better unless some changes are made. On top of more pressure now you've got people shooting 400+ yards no problem with long range setups. There's still good hunting to be had but at times I almost feel bad hunting mule deer here in MT with all the pressure they get. I wouldn't be surprised if there comes a time where I just hunt deer with my camera.

ScottR · Nov 26, 2018

How many of you have heard the line: Sure would be nice for some snow and a few more hunters to get these elk moving?

The people I hear it from are generally the older generation of hunters and they remember some of the bad winters that started early. They also remember the heavy pressure that existed and referenced as a reason for their success in the good old days.

Colorado Cowboy · Nov 26, 2018

One thing to think about re: hunting numbers are down. This forum is mostly big game hunters and I really think their numbers have not decreased all that much (just my thoughts). I know waterfowl and bird hunters are down. Fewer opportunities for the unattached hunters, especially in waterfowl hunting. 15 years ago I could hunt geese on 10 or 12 big alfalfa & hay ranches. Down to one today. Plenty of geese, just less opportunity to get permission to hunt.

Fink · Nov 26, 2018

BuzzH said:
Then there's just the fact that the younger crowd of serious hunters are better equipped, hike further, and are just plain tough.

Is this the first positive comment on a younger generation, in internet history?!

I think there's a bunch of valid reasons here, in addition to ONX, and the like, satellite imagery has been an absolute game changer. I can open Google Earth, and quickly find access points, and likely game locations. In just the first day or two of my hunt, I can move through a bunch of likely areas, and find the good ones, including areas that are far from roads that may have taken someone years to discover. I've lost track of all the turkeys, ducks, deer, etc that I've killed, on places I'd never set foot in until that morning, just scouted on google earth.

Mostly though Mallards, you just need to hunt harder, and farther from the truck.

BuzzH · Nov 26, 2018

I honestly think we are spoiled as big-game hunters these days. So much opportunity you cant even come close to doing it all.

All this crap about the "good old days"...is mostly that, crap.

I had many conversations about the "good old days" with my late grandfather and there was no way anybody was going to convince him that the "good old days" were all that good. That was in regard to hunting, fishing, gear, and life in general.

I'll never forget, when I brought up something about what it must have been like in the "good old days" while we were hunting...he said, "Buzz, let me tell you about the good old days, they weren't really that good. The only thing I miss at all about the "good old days" is my youth."

My Grandfather wasn't a real profound person, but was notorious for his, at times, almost brutal honesty. I think that statement made my profound list.

Glad I got to spend a lot of time hunting, fishing, and just hanging around with him.

Prerylyon · Nov 26, 2018

Colorado Cowboy said:
One thing to think about re: hunting numbers are down. This forum is mostly big game hunters and I really think their numbers have not decreased all that much (just my thoughts). I know waterfowl and bird hunters are down. Fewer opportunities for the unattached hunters, especially in waterfowl hunting. 115 years ago I could hunt geese on 10 or 12 big alfalfa & hay ranches. Down to one today. Plenty of geese, just less opportunity to get permission to hunt.

'CC,

100% agree.

I resemble that remark.

Iowa pheasant hunting once was a really big deal out here. In my 15+ yrs of living here, I have watched it literally vaporize right before me eyes-for a variety of reasons I won't burden the thread with. Upland game was my primary hunting, with my setter. He died in 2013, bird numbers have gone way down; since then a childhood interest in western big game hunting has taken root; and replaced what was more than a decade spent as a hardcore upland bird hunter.

Great thread. Enjoying the perspectives.

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Colorado Cowboy · Nov 26, 2018

I'm not going to disagree with Buzz's comments about what his Grandfather said because I never hunted anything but California until 1980. But the "good old days" in California were the 50's and 60's....and were definitely better than today. My family and friends have hunted the High Sierras for deer since 1940. It was better then and the best was in the 20 years I mentioned. In 1956 23 of us went on a hunt to catch the last 3 days of the season. I was like I have never seen before. Saw literally 100's of deer (like in Wyo hunting antelope). We got 22 bucks, the only one who didn't fill his tag, couldn't hit anything. Found out later his scope was screwed up. Our annual trip to the Sierra backcountry was almost always a success with everyone filling their tag (8 to 10 hunters). If you take a look at my profile and my album you will see some of the buck I shot. Today it is not half as good as it was back then.

I blame it on habitat changes. They used to run sheep in the Sierras until 1950 when it was stopped. The sheep grazed the meadows and parks and kept the tree out of them. Sheep have been gone over 60 years and so have all the meadows, all trees now. Now you are lucky to see 20 deer in a week.

Prerylyon · Nov 26, 2018

'Good old days', past or present, will vary for each of us, depending on where we hunt, what we are hunting I think.

Back to my Iowa pheasant example, the 'Good old days' are gone. Adios. Lights out. Maybe someday, they will return.

On the other hand, for eastern wild turkey, here in Iowa, the 'Good old days' are right now; and it could not be better.

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PRESSURE- A Question for the Public Land "Older Guys"

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