PRESSURE- A Question for the Public Land "Older Guys"

[alaska2go]

I will chime in on this one. I am 47 and I have been hunting since i was 5 years old.

My dad and his buddies would farm us kids out to ranchers to work around the ranch so we could hunt. Now most of those ranches are split up into 40 acre tracts with houses on them. I never hunted much public ground when I was a kid. Worked during the summer to hunt on farms and ranches in the fall and winter. We had a place in eastern Kansas we would go pheasant hunt but we spent 4 days dehorning, cutting nuts, sorting cows & ear tagging , branding. Then we hunted pheasants for 5 days. That farmer was a great guy. Now his kid runs the show & leases it to deer hunters & upland game hunters.. We used to be able to ask a farmer to hunt geese & it was usually no problem and heck some would join us, but when I was back in Co for waterfowl season 6 years ago farmers either had it leased or people had pissed them off to the point of no return...

Big game hunting: I use to hunt the Nash ranch Frank & Dave were brothers but had their own operation separate.. Total of 16,000 acres & some change. We would buck hay in the summer & repair fence to be able to hunt.. Lots of BIG bucks. There more deer than trees in the 80's. Then this joker named Gorden Eastman come along and filmed some deer hunts on the ranches & made a video. You guess what happen after that. Yup Frank & Dave told me they have leased the ranches to an outfitter. So I had to hunt public land. It was a CHIT show.. But then I purchased some maps and really dissect land and found honey holes. I still hunt some of those honey holes today when I go back to CO to hunt. And rarely see another hunter. If I do they are usually driving by slowing but are not picking apart the landscape with their glass. All of my big game animals killed in last 25 years or so in CO & MT have been on public ground !!!
And i have harvested some big critters. I think everyone hunts large parcels of NF & forget the little chunk of BLM that is 200 acres. I went with a buddy who drawn a 3rd season deer tag 5 years ago. I told him we are going to a state trust parcel ( 640 acres ) that we have to walk into . I told him it is good spot . He brushed me off , i told him I guarantee we will kill a good buck . Just gotta stay until dark. Some does come walking out heading to the ranchers water tank on the next parcel. We waited & 15 minutes before dark here come 185" buck following the doe's trail. BANG ! He thought I was crazy in the beginning but made a believer out of him.

I use to hunt unit 75 in CO with great success. Killed some really good bulls. All NF. Then there was this guy named Wayne Carlton made a video killing elk in that unit & then there was outdoor life or field & stream can't remember which but published a article about the unit. You can guess what happened to that unit.... Every Eastern dude that ever dreamed of elk hunting was there .. I had a spot that was 6 mile hike there get up at 0300 beat feet over there & find 4 spike camps with horses, backpackers you name it. CRAP !!

If you really want to see a CHIT show come to Alaska on a registration caribou hunt for the 40 mile heard !! The lower 48 couldn't never compete with that..... Unit 13 when I first moved here was a awesome place to hunt, but now it is damn zoo. Unless you own a $65,000 plane to get away from the crowds or pay $5000 to have some one fly you in you are screwed. I had a honey hole for moose an old pack horse trail that lead to a small lake. Killed several bull moose there. Even made a hand cart to put saddle panniers on it so we wouldn't track it up with our 4 wheeler to let other people see. Then some jack wagon stumbled on to it & road his wheeler in there and you guess what happened to that..

In conclusion access to good spots are hard to come by. If you find some spots you better guard it like it is your daughter and to let no man know. Hunting private property like when I was growing up is obsolete, unless you pat to play. With that said elk hunting is better now than it was 25 - 30 years ago. More elk, better elk !! Mule deer is getting better than it was 15 years ago but still not like early 80's. Still some great bucks, harder to come by , sure.. I killed 190" buck this year on a tract of BLM that is 400 acres or so. So< it can be done.

 

[mcseal2]

I'm just 39, I don't consider myself older just yet. That said it's not the years, it's the miles and I have my share of old man tendencies. I think we as hunters need to continue to adapt no matter what ground we hunt. I can't successfully hunt whitetail on private the same way I did 12-15 years ago, I had to adapt. In my area private lands see more pressure than most western public land, there are no longer places that aren't hunted for the most part. I think the next trend on western hunting (when it gets popular because the back country is to crowded) will be the harder to access "middle ground" spots. To close to the road for hard core back country guys but to far from the road for the average meat hunter. I hunt spots like that now. They can't be seen without walking but are accessible with a big effort for a short time. I can check several of them each day instead of committing days to one back country area. With limited opportunity to scout ahead of season I feel like it improves my odds doing this. When those spots become the big thing I'll start hunting different again.

 

[mallardsx2]

Is this the first positive comment on a younger generation, in internet history?!

Mostly though Mallards, you just need to hunt harder, and farther from the truck.

These both made me chuckle. lol

I literally couldn't hunt any harder or get any further from the truck, Literally. lol

What I CAN do is find a different spot to hunt in the future that has less pressure. haha

What I should add to this thread is that while I saw a lot of pressure and stupid things happen in the areas I hunted on public land this year, I did have opportunity and capitalized on it and filled my tags.

But getting it was no easy task and I never expect it to be.

So I dont want people to mistake this post for me complaining about not getting a deer.
I'm just highly concerned about what I saw, the amount of pressure being placed on the public lands, and what we need to do / can do about it going forward as sportsmen to increase opportunity for everyone who holds a license.

Thanks for the reply's everybody. I appreciate the great feedback.

 

[CrimsonArrow]

Many valid points here. The only thing I'd add is there's an additional 85 million people in this country now versus 1988, and some percentage of that constitutes big game hunters

 

[Daubs]

Good thread. Interesting reads.

As much as the media likes to say hunting and hunters are decreasing, I find that hard to believe. So many more ways for hunters to connect and find spots to hunt (web sites, social media), and ways for manufacturers to get the word out and market to hunters.

Nephew and his buddies (college age), hunt hard and post everything to social media. They love the attention and competition...and love what I call the "hero shots," grinning hunters standing behind limits of waterfowl, or a big buck. Face it, we are all competitive, and that drives us.

I've hunted the same public land here in NE since 2011. I can honestly say it ebbs and flows as far as hunting pressure. Couple of years in a row I will see very few hunters and pretty much have my pick of spots / areas to hunt. Then the tide will turn and it seems like there are hunters everywhere.

This year I saw hunters in areas I've never seen them. And when I put miles on the boots and got way deep...ran in to four hunters miles from the road. Is what it is. I was fortunate enough to put a tag on a deer on day five.

I think things like the internet, google earth, onX really help hunters discover new places to hunt, especially public. I talked to three out of state hunters this deer season who decided to hunt Nebraska public through research on the web. They weren't having any luck, so unsure if they were coming back.

I don't get too worked up when I see more hunters in the field. Deer season for me is more about getting away from work, disconnecting from the daily grind, reconnecting with nature. The only thing constant in my life is change. Right now I'm healthy and fit enough to hunt public and hunt hard. As I get older I may slow down and try to find some private land to hunt that may be easier on my body. That day is not today, fortunately.

 

[Timberstalker]

There are a lot of area I used to hunt tha have little to no hunting pressure now compared to 25 years ago. The reason is there isn’t a good reason to hunt there anymore. Since we stopped logging National Forest ground in the early 90’s the deer and elk population has plummeted, as the uncontrolled bear and cougar population to that and you get an overgrown mess with few to no deer or elk. Many of my cousins brothers and friends are giving up hunting here for these reasons. I can Hunt without seeing a soul all season long, but I probably won’t see an animal either if I hunt those areas. The small areas that have animals are the burns, guess where everyone goes now. Other areas are private timber company grounds that are now either locked up or pay to play. When I started hunting in the early 80’s it was nearly endless where you could go kill a deer. Today finding a deer on public land is about like finding a unicorn.

That being said with California, Oregon and Washington completely screwing things up you will see more and more pressure in the Rocky Mountain states. I started buying points in other states about 4 years ago knowing my future hunting trips will not be here in Oregon.

 

[RICMIC]

As a 66 year old who makes a couple trips west each year, I can tell you that I still manage to find unpressured areas to hunt by hoofing it into the wilderness areas of Colorado, and the most rugged areas that I can legally hunt in WY. Yes, I have gone on some guided hunts (and have one booked in CO for 2019), but finding others who are willing and able to work as hard, and to go in as deep have become almost impossible to find. I went as far as to reach out to a forum member who hunts the way that I like to (you know who you are), because my wife now insists that I no longer hunt alone. I ended up compromising and took a non-hunter along, and I will never do that again.
BuzzH nailed it about the access issues, and along with evolving technology, social media, publicity, etc., the times they are a changing. All the private ground near where we hunt antelope in WY is now leased up, but you can't really blame the landowners. My partner talked to one of them last year, and he was a true "good guy". He explained that he used to get calls and visits all fall from folks wanting to hunt, right when he was the busiest. If they left gates open, had break-downs, got lost, etc., it became his problem. Now the outfitters pay for access and it becomes their problem. But, by using OnyxMap we can wander all over the county and find antelope, especially if you are willing to take a walk.

 

[highplainsdrifter]

There are a lot of area I used to hunt tha have little to no hunting pressure now compared to 25 years ago. The reason is there isn?t a good reason to hunt there anymore. Since we stopped logging National Forest ground in the early 90?s the deer and elk population has plummeted, as the uncontrolled bear and cougar population to that and you get an overgrown mess with few to no deer or elk. Many of my cousins brothers and friends are giving up hunting here for these reasons. I can Hunt without seeing a soul all season long, but I probably won?t see an animal either if I hunt those areas. The small areas that have animals are the burns, guess where everyone goes now. Other areas are private timber company grounds that are now either locked up or pay to play. When I started hunting in the early 80?s it was nearly endless where you could go kill a deer. Today finding a deer on public land is about like finding a unicorn.

The question of game population size...loss or gain is different from the one of increasing hunting pressure. In Wyoming, elk, whitetail deer, and black bear populations are in very good shape. Antelope populations are also pretty good. Mule deer not so great.

 

[Slugz]

Just wanted to add this. Over all hunter numbers in the field are way down. There is a 28-40% decrease during some seasons. Mainly due to many many other things competing with the 25 and under crowd. I'll try and dig the data up that was presented at the SCI convention, RMEF Banquet and the Western ISE shows.

Thibk about it for a minute. When was the last time you saw a camp that had young people in it other than maybe the son or daughter that we bring into the woods. This talks to the lowered access rates of the farmers we used to work for access, handshake, promise etc etc. Now the young ones have to do some research, boots on ground, summer scouting.

When my 20 year old son tells his work buddies we go into scout during the summer....
First reaction is always why......hunting seasons are 4 months away.

 

[Daubs]

I'll try and dig the data up that was presented at the SCI convention, RMEF Banquet and the Western ISE shows.

I would love to see those numbers and where they gathered the data from.

I've gotten to know one of the data experts here at work...whenever I ask him for numbers, his first question is "what kind of story to you want to tell..." ; )

Manufacturers are pretty savvy, and marketing techniques continue to find ways to get us to buy things. Consider the two scenarios where you are attending a trade conference...

Scenario #1: presentation showing numbers showing hunting numbers are up, things are going well, lots of young hunters getting in to the sport. That doesn't create any sense of urgency for the common man...all is okay, status quo, keep doing what you are doing.

Scenario #2: presentation showing hunting numbers on the decline, and we NEED TO TAKE action to preserve hunting rights. We are encouraged to get younger hunters in the field. Creates a sense of urgency, encourages us to buy more stuff (key point here).

I saw lots of younger hunters this deer season in Nebraska.

 

[Timberstalker]

The question of game population size...loss or gain is different from the one of increasing hunting pressure. In Wyoming, elk, whitetail deer, and black bear populations are in very good shape. Antelope populations are also pretty good. Mule deer not so great.

You are lucky to live in a state with healthy game populations. Oregon had that too 25-30 years ago, politics changed that in a damn hurry. I’m not trying to get off topic, I do think what other states are doing can affect pressure in your state. The ones with rich resources will attract more hunters, myself included. I’ve already been to Wyoming once on a general elk tag. I will be back even though I can buy a over the counter elk tag here for less than $50, I would rather spend $1000 and hunt where there are more elk.

 

[Gr8bawana]

I'm sure it's a lot different in states that have otc tags and maybe no quota. Some states may just alot too many tags for an area creating too much pressure. If there are lots of deer most people will not care.
Most people would rather have an opportunity at any buck rather than very limited opportunity at trophy animals. Game agencies are hard pressed to balance those things.
I can only coment about hunting in NV. I started tagging along with my dad and brothers in the late 60's. Back in the "good old days" NV had no drawing and no quotas so there were people everywhere. You could hunt anywhere in the state so areas close to cities like Vegas and Reno were litterally overrun with hunters. Smaller towns like Elko, Caliente, Wells were not much better. The deer were really scarce back then as well.
Fast forward to the early 80's after a decade of having to draw tags. The deer herd in the Ruby's and Jarbidge where we mostly hunted was doing very well. The problem was that the late season hunt in the Ruby's had about 2500 tags and the early season had around 3500 tage. Once again there were people everywhere. You would be hard pressed to find any camping spots anywhere. Jarbidge had even more tags because back then it had the biggest deer herd.
This year the same late season hunt had only 160 tags. We saw only 2 other hunters in almost a week, it also seemed there were very few deer around and none of the bigger bucks we're used to seeing in the late season.
I do think the advent of gps and atv's and hunters having better gear have a lot to do with hunters accessing areas we never saw anyone else in.

 

[Slugz]

I would love to see those numbers and where they gathered the data from.

I've gotten to know one of the data experts here at work...whenever I ask him for numbers, his first question is "what kind of story to you want to tell..." ; )

Manufacturers are pretty savvy, and marketing techniques continue to find ways to get us to buy things. Consider the two scenarios where you are attending a trade conference...

Scenario #1: presentation showing numbers showing hunting numbers are up, things are going well, lots of young hunters getting in to the sport. That doesn't create any sense of urgency for the common man...all is okay, status quo, keep doing what you are doing.

Scenario #2: presentation showing hunting numbers on the decline, and we NEED TO TAKE action to preserve hunting rights. We are encouraged to get younger hunters in the field. Creates a sense of urgency, encourages us to buy more stuff (key point here).

I saw lots of younger hunters this deer season in Nebraska.

Daubs: Yes, we as sportsman need to weed out/evaluate data.... BS in equals BS out.....and your data expert is normal...they all do that

I see less of the media saying hunter numbers are declining and more from conservation groups who have nothing to sell me....RMEF specifically.

US fish and wildlife does a pretty in-depth survey that has been going on for quite some time as we all battle for how to pay for conservation projects, maintain public lands and preserve what is possible for all to use. The numbers
I referenced came from a RMEF brief that was sent to the ISE Shows (obviously because it helps sell things)

Attached is the latest 2016 US Fish and Wildlife data set/brief. IMHO its good data and is reflective of what I see in our National Forests.......I cant speak to the great plains Nebraska, Kansas etc etc.....but I used to hunt Nebraska all the time....just not enough pubic land for me and hunter density was too high so I stopped coming over.

https://wsfrprograms.fws.gov/subpages/nationalsurvey/nat_survey2016.pdf

WRT the 25 and under crowd hunting.....they are a vanishing crowd out here in the big squares states. I'm just thankful my son is as crazy about hunting as I am. I saw zero 25 and under hunters in my limited archery unit I hunt every year and during my 4th rifle cow hunt ( leftover tag ) Both those hunts I've been doing for 10 years and the young hunters are just not there.

Lastly you want to really hear whats going on go do a data pull from your local game warden, sporting goods store and processor. Out here they will all say the same thing. Hunter numbers are down and I'm making roughly 20% less ( stores / processors) than what I was 5 years ago.

In summary pressure on public land is always there...If we utilize the data that is out there....Go Hunt, Onx, Eastmans data sets, specific DOW state data sets........we can still find areas that are not pressured......and not always is it a long ways in or a Bataan death march hike in.

I know where Mallards went here in Co.......it was waaaaaaaaaay in

 

[mallardsx2]

Slugz,

Thanks for posting that link.

VERY interesting data in there!

 

[Bonecollector]

It does not tell the entire story, but I look at number of hunting licenses sold. I realize senior folks get free licenses in some cases, but it does provide some insight. Additionally, no disrespect, I'm not competing with most senior folk in the backcountry.

 

[tim]

I am lucky in that i play in the mountains all year long. Hunting is just a small portion of the activities i do in the mountains. I have seen more and more people out playing in the mountains year round. it is not just during hunting season. Heck during hunting season, all people have a right to be out there. so you are competing with hikers, bikers, atvers, familie out enjoying the last of the good weather ect. More and more people are just in the mountains.

 

[Slugz]

It does not tell the entire story, but I look at number of hunting licenses sold. I realize senior folks get free licenses in some cases, but it does provide some insight. Additionally, no disrespect, I'm not competing with most senior folk in the backcountry.

Oh I agree......no data set, survey, publication, brief, sales pitch tells the whole story. I like to think of it as more ingredients for the soup stock. In the end boots on the ground, experience in the field and sound judgement make my soup taste good &#55357;&#56832;

 

[BuzzH]

You are lucky to live in a state with healthy game populations. Oregon had that too 25-30 years ago, politics changed that in a damn hurry. I?m not trying to get off topic, I do think what other states are doing can affect pressure in your state. The ones with rich resources will attract more hunters, myself included. I?ve already been to Wyoming once on a general elk tag. I will be back even though I can buy a over the counter elk tag here for less than $50, I would rather spend $1000 and hunt where there are more elk.

Pretty sure Oregon has more elk than Wyoming...or very similar population.

 

[highplainsdrifter]

I am lucky in that i play in the mountains all year long. Hunting is just a small portion of the activities i do in the mountains. I have seen more and more people out playing in the mountains year round. it is not just during hunting season. Heck during hunting season, all people have a right to be out there. so you are competing with hikers, bikers, atvers, familie out enjoying the last of the good weather ect. More and more people are just in the mountains.

I agree. I'm seeing more nonhunters during hunting season than I did years ago.

 

[Timberstalker]

Pretty sure Oregon has more elk than Wyoming...or very similar population.

Not on public land we don’t.