Corner Hopping

[Slugz]

Anyone know how much it costs to rent a chopper?

Yes, this is a serious question.

Normally you can rent for flight time only charges. Need to also calculate reposition flight time also.
Bell 206 is 1100 to 1400 an hour.
Robinson R44 is 600 to 700 an hour.


Anything smaller can't carry your gear. In my opinion.

 

[Hilltop]

I have actually had quotes done when I was looking at flying in to an area. Plan 3-5k for a one time in one time out with limited gear.

 

[BuzzH]

Heres a newspaper article from 2013 when house bill 235 was rejected to make it legal to corner jump. Montana currently has around 800,000 acres that are landlocked public lands

http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/montana-legislature/montana-house-rejects-corner-crossing-bill/article_21c541c0-7a31-11e2-a957-0019bb2963f4.html


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For the record, I traveled from Laramie to attend that rally and I'm in the picture in the article.

That isn't what I asked about, I asked for the law or statute that makes corner crossing illegal, which is going to be tough, because there isn't one.

 

[missjordan]

For the record, I traveled from Laramie to attend that rally and I'm in the picture in the article.

That isn't what I asked about, I asked for the law or statute that makes corner crossing illegal, which is going to be tough, because there isn't one.

The state of Montana may not have one listed but the DNRC does, try looking at 36.25.161


All i know if for my personal use, it?s not worth my time and money to wrestle with a landowner or a game warden about the corner jumping law. There are too many other places to hunt that don?t have these issues and I?ve gravitated to those parts instead.

36.25.161 GENERAL RECREATIONAL USE OF STATE LANDS: OTHER PROVISIONS (1) Nothing in ARM 36.25.143 through 36.25.162 authorizes a recreationist to enter private land to reach state lands or to enter private land from state lands. A recreationist may not enter private land from adjacent state lands, regardless of the absence of fencing or failure of the owner to provide notice, without permission of the landowner or his agent.
(2) Under 77-1-806(2), MCA, entry onto private land from state land by a recreationist without permission of the landowner is a misdemeanor, whether or not the recreationist knows he or she is on private land.
(3) Recreationists are responsible for determining whether state lands are legally accessible. The recreationist is encouraged to contact landowners to determine boundaries and to use accurate maps.
(4) Before the department designates roads on state lands as open for public access pursuant to ARM 36.25.149, it shall mail notice of the proposed designation to the lessee.
(5) Any person may petition the board to include within the definition of general recreational use any type of recreation other than hunting and fishing. The petition must be in writing, be signed, and include a statement of the reasons why the use petitioned for should be included subject to the general recreational use license. It must be filed with the director, who shall bring the petition before the board. (History: 77-1-209 and 77-1-804, MCA; IMP, 77-1-804 and 77-1- 806, MCA; NEW, 1992 MAR p. 568, Eff. 3/27/92; TRANS, 1996 MAR p. 2384.)


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[mallardsx2]

I flew around in 500D's when I worked in Alaska. They couldn't haul much.

I dont know if I would ever fly in a Robinson....I dont trust gas motors in a chopper..lol

I like the idea of sticking it to the man and getting choppered into a public "honey hole".

Sorry to be off topic.

 

[Winchester]

I've got a couple thousand hours flying the Army version of a Bell 206.
Nice helicopter. We couldn't haul much along with all the additional military stuff.
I imagine a straight civilian 206 can haul enough for a hunting trip.

 

[Slugz]

I flew around in 500D's when I worked in Alaska. They couldn't haul much.

I dont know if I would ever fly in a Robinson....I dont trust gas motors in a chopper..lol

I like the idea of sticking it to the man and getting choppered into a public "honey hole".

Sorry to be off topic.

Oh yeah valid. I wouldn't get in. a Robinson.. I think Randy Newberg has a hunt on YouTube the he choppers into a landlocked piece of land to elk hunt.

 

[JM77]

The state of Montana may not have one listed but the DNRC does, try looking at 36.25.161


All i know if for my personal use, it?s not worth my time and money to wrestle with a landowner or a game warden about the corner jumping law. There are too many other places to hunt that don?t have these issues and I?ve gravitated to those parts instead.

36.25.161 GENERAL RECREATIONAL USE OF STATE LANDS: OTHER PROVISIONS (1) Nothing in ARM 36.25.143 through 36.25.162 authorizes a recreationist to enter private land to reach state lands or to enter private land from state lands. A recreationist may not enter private land from adjacent state lands, regardless of the absence of fencing or failure of the owner to provide notice, without permission of the landowner or his agent.
(2) Under 77-1-806(2), MCA, entry onto private land from state land by a recreationist without permission of the landowner is a misdemeanor, whether or not the recreationist knows he or she is on private land.
(3) Recreationists are responsible for determining whether state lands are legally accessible. The recreationist is encouraged to contact landowners to determine boundaries and to use accurate maps.
(4) Before the department designates roads on state lands as open for public access pursuant to ARM 36.25.149, it shall mail notice of the proposed designation to the lessee.
(5) Any person may petition the board to include within the definition of general recreational use any type of recreation other than hunting and fishing. The petition must be in writing, be signed, and include a statement of the reasons why the use petitioned for should be included subject to the general recreational use license. It must be filed with the director, who shall bring the petition before the board. (History: 77-1-209 and 77-1-804, MCA; IMP, 77-1-804 and 77-1- 806, MCA; NEW, 1992 MAR p. 568, Eff. 3/27/92; TRANS, 1996 MAR p. 2384.)


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I'm not seeing where this even addresses corner crossing.

 

[JM77]

"In 2004, the Wyoming Attorney General?s Office issued an opinion that ?corner crossing? from one parcel of public land to another in order to hunt that other public parcel, depending on the factual situation involved, may not violate the game and fish trespass statute, but may be a criminal trespass violation. The factual situation would include whether the person doing the ?corner crossing? was hunting or intended to hunt private land at the time the corner was crossed."

The bolded are the key words. The burden of proof falls on your shoulders to show you didn't intend to hunt the private. I'm guessing video would show that clearly but your word against a landowner in any other instance. I haven't done it but would if the right situation dictated it.

It might help to read the actual AGO. The mere fact that one steps from public to public, while corner crossing, shows the intent to hunt public. In any case, the burden of proof falls on the prosecution last time I looked, which is the very reason these trespass tickets are not written in Wyoming.

 

[jjenness]

According to the state of Montana it?s trespassing. Need one of the adjacent landowners permission to corner jump.

I personally won?t do it even though there?s one section in a area that i Hunt that has a good piece of ground that corner jumps. Thing that?s really screwy is the adjacent land is part of the block management program also but I?ve called to ask if we can still hunt it and FWP said no! It?s really unfortunate that this law hasn?t been changed in my opinion


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Wait, so the piece of public land that you would have to corner cross to access has a piece of block management attached to it and FWP said you can' t hunt it? That is absolutely wrong. Once you have legal access onto the block management, you absolutely can hunt any public land that attaches to the block management land.

 

[highplainsdrifter]

Here is an interesting article about landlocked public land in the west. In Wyoming, there is about 750,000 acres of landlocked public land. A bunch of it is totally surrounded by private land and does not lend itself to corner hopping.

I suggest we channel some of the energy in this thread into a program that would improve access to these landlocked lands via access easements or land exchanges.

http://westernpriorities.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Landlocked-Measuring-Public-Land-Access.pdf

 

[mallardsx2]

Thanks for posting that link.

 

[highplainsdrifter]

Here is an interesting article about landlocked public land in the west. In Wyoming, there is about 750,000 acres of landlocked public land. A bunch of it is totally surrounded by private land and does not lend itself to corner hopping.

I suggest we channel some of the energy in this thread into a program that would improve access to these landlocked lands via access easements or land exchanges.

http://westernpriorities.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Landlocked-Measuring-Public-Land-Access.pdf

I just noticed the article makes a blanket statement that corner hopping is illegal in all western states. I don't necessarily agree with that. It depends on the state/county and how they want to enforce it.

Just saying it would be good to have a program that would improve access to landlocked public land, especially the big parcels. There are some efforts being made by the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation and programs like Wyoming's Access Yes, but they are pretty small relative to the size of the problem.

 

[WapitiBob]

Big discussion on Facebook, supposedly 3 different Wyoming wardens told the guy they would cite for corner crossing. I asked for a statute or regulation.....

 

[fackelberry]

I don't know why people say the Game wardens can give you a ticket for corner crossing? You are breaking NO game violations doing it. It would be a civil violation! The Game warden i talked to said it is up to the County Sherriffs department if its trespassing or not. Some counties prosecute and some don't. Thats here in Wyoming. I also think some game wardens "create" their own laws sometimes. There is nothing funner than having a question or scenario and asking a game warden and he has no answer.
I've did it a few times, matter of fact i've even been to the Regional office and talked to the director about my questions and me and him dug out the ACTUAL game law book to look it up. And HOLY COW, that book is HUGE! But they were all nice and i got my answers, but i have a few more that me and a buddy have come up with to ask next time im up there. I love picking their brain!

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Wardens here are peace officers and as such can enforce more than just fish & game violations.

 

[fackelberry]

Don't get me wrong here. Wardens are peace officers here too, but first and foremost they are looking for game violations. If it's just trespassing, they call the sherriff, now if you take a game animal while doing it, then he steps in. They have alot of jurisdiction that regular police or sheriff doesn't. But i have never seen a game warden give anyone a speeding ticket.

 

[JM77]

Game wardens in Wyoming do not write Title 6 (criminal) trespass.

A new warden from Rawlins, wrote my friends son a corner cross ticket in 2016 under Title 23 (game & fish) statutes. That ticket was in the garbage the next morning after the Chief Game Warden was notified. People say all the time wardens in Wyoming will write corner cross, but if they do, the will get a lesson from up the chain of authority.

 

[Stig87]

Does anybody know if a Sherriff/Game Warden can, or would, confiscate an animal that was harvested as a result of corner crossing if issued criminal trespass ticket? Most would fight the ticket, but initially and in the end, what would happen with the animal harvested?

 

[WapitiBob]

It's a county by county decision; just got off the phone with the Chief Warden.
Where I hunt, they don't write. I have no idea about other counties.
You need to knowingly enter private to get a criminal trespass ticket from a deputy. Signage, verbal communication, etc. and even then, it's a county by county decision by the DA according to the Chief.