Corner Hopping

Never in Doubt

Active Member
Jul 9, 2012
304
0
Don't forget property rights include a certain amount of airspace above the property too.

So you can't hover above the ground and say as long as I didn't touch the ground itself I'm not trespassing.
 

Prerylyon

Veteran member
Apr 25, 2016
1,334
511
50
Cedar Rapids, IA
I dunno. This whole corner thing reminds me of how in some states landowners also own stream bottoms, but then in other states, they don't, and then in others if its 'navigable waterway' then you can be in the water, but can't touch the bank-blah-blah-blah (I know corner hopping is a different animal)

Just stinks it get so complicated. As an an American and taxpayer, it confuses me that there is public land that can't be accessed without a helicopter, legally. Just seems wrong. No, I won't trespass to test it, no, I am not mad at ranchers...just sayin '

It is really cool to see some thoughtful walk-in and hunter management areas in WY where private landowners have worked with the G&F to provide access to larger tracts of BLM. Its not all bad out there.

Regards.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
 

rammont

Active Member
Oct 31, 2016
228
4
Montana
I suspect it's not the end of the world to simply find another public land area to hunt, I mean seriously, this piece of land couldn't possibly be the only place where you can find whatever you're hunting.
 

graybird

Active Member
Feb 22, 2011
388
119
Colorado
I suspect it's not the end of the world to simply find another public land area to hunt, I mean seriously, this piece of land couldn't possibly be the only place where you can find whatever you're hunting.
Evidently you've never been in a unit that is checker-boarded to the hill.
 

rammont

Active Member
Oct 31, 2016
228
4
Montana
Evidently you've never been in a unit that is checker-boarded to the hill.
Evidently you don't get it...go to a different hill.

I understand your point but the reality is that trespassing is trespassing and if you can't get to where you want to go then tough luck, find a new place to hunt. If you think that the law is wrong then take action to get it changed but you aren't making any allies when you ignore private property rights and trespass without permission. Imagine how you'd feel if I kept driving my 4 wheeler through the corner of your yard every day, I'll bet that you'd be pretty upset with me. In just the last two weeks I've had a guy drive his truck up my private drive (that is marked as such) to try to drive down along a trail that I created for me to get to my targets on my personal rifle range and I've had a series of snow mobiles cut across my property just for the fun of it. The truck almost got stuck trying to drive up the snow and mud covered trail so he dug ruts with his tires and the snow mobile drivers damn near ran over my wife and dogs who were on a walk around the property. In both cases there was no reason for their trespassing, they simply wanted to do it because either they were sightseeing or they just enjoyed racing through the fresh snow.

Because people don't wear a signs that say "I'm an idiot so don't let me cross your property" land owners can't determine who will be responsible and who wont so they have very little choice but to deny access to everyone. If you make the effort to ask for permission to cross private property you improve your chances of getting to that remote spot you like, a little effort on your part to be a good neighbor just might solve you dilemma rather than pissing and moaning about land owner's rights.
 

Slugz

Veteran member
Oct 12, 2014
3,625
2,254
54
Woodland Park, Colorado
I think we are starting to talk about apples and oranges. I suspect the OP was bringing up the point of corner hopping....with a GPS that has a 9m or less CEP ( circular error of probability ), on foot and causing zero damage to ground, fence etc etc.
I think all would agree....driving motorized vehicles on someone's property is not only wrong.....but trespassing and illegal....simple as that.

I myself have no issues with corner hopping. It's legal if you can prove where you are at.

RMEF does a great job at buying small chunks of land to open up bigger chunks that is landlocked or not accessable.
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
910
953
Evidently you don't get it...go to a different hill.

I understand your point but the reality is that trespassing is trespassing and if you can't get to where you want to go then tough luck, find a new place to hunt. If you think that the law is wrong then take action to get it changed but you aren't making any allies when you ignore private property rights and trespass without permission. Imagine how you'd feel if I kept driving my 4 wheeler through the corner of your yard every day, I'll bet that you'd be pretty upset with me. In just the last two weeks I've had a guy drive his truck up my private drive (that is marked as such) to try to drive down along a trail that I created for me to get to my targets on my personal rifle range and I've had a series of snow mobiles cut across my property just for the fun of it. The truck almost got stuck trying to drive up the snow and mud covered trail so he dug ruts with his tires and the snow mobile drivers damn near ran over my wife and dogs who were on a walk around the property. In both cases there was no reason for their trespassing, they simply wanted to do it because either they were sightseeing or they just enjoyed racing through the fresh snow.

Because people don't wear a signs that say "I'm an idiot so don't let me cross your property" land owners can't determine who will be responsible and who wont so they have very little choice but to deny access to everyone. If you make the effort to ask for permission to cross private property you improve your chances of getting to that remote spot you like, a little effort on your part to be a good neighbor just might solve you dilemma rather than pissing and moaning about land owner's rights.
Totally disagree, stepping across a corner to access MY Public Lands is not trespassing at all in regard to a hunting violation in Wyoming. As others have pointed out the AG opinion flat states it, and further GF wardens have been specifically told to NOT cite anyone for trespass that corner crosses. Although not precedent setting, an Albany County Judge found in favor of a guy that corner crossed to hunt mule deer.

These discussions always evolve into BS abstracts about 4 wheelers crossing a corner, GPS's aren't accurate enough, and air space.

Those are all non-issues...its not hard at all to find established corner pins with a hand held GPS. Yeah, I know the next argument will be, "what about where a corner pin doesn't exist". For starters a vast majority of section corners are monumented and established. In the cases where they aren't, the land owner is still going to have to prove intent to trespass to hunt private land for starters. Secondly, to prove trespass, where a corner isn't established, unless and until the section corner is surveyed in, the private land owner will have to PROVE trespass in court. Not likely as it will come down to dueling GPS units and tracks.

I fully support private landowner rights, but I also equally support my right to access MY PUBLIC LANDS...and that includes corner crossing. I've done it in the past, and I'll continue to do it in the future.
 

graybird

Active Member
Feb 22, 2011
388
119
Colorado
Evidently you don't get it...go to a different hill.

I understand your point but the reality is that trespassing is trespassing and if you can't get to where you want to go then tough luck, find a new place to hunt. If you think that the law is wrong then take action to get it changed but you aren't making any allies when you ignore private property rights and trespass without permission. Imagine how you'd feel if I kept driving my 4 wheeler through the corner of your yard every day, I'll bet that you'd be pretty upset with me. In just the last two weeks I've had a guy drive his truck up my private drive (that is marked as such) to try to drive down along a trail that I created for me to get to my targets on my personal rifle range and I've had a series of snow mobiles cut across my property just for the fun of it. The truck almost got stuck trying to drive up the snow and mud covered trail so he dug ruts with his tires and the snow mobile drivers damn near ran over my wife and dogs who were on a walk around the property. In both cases there was no reason for their trespassing, they simply wanted to do it because either they were sightseeing or they just enjoyed racing through the fresh snow.

Because people don't wear a signs that say "I'm an idiot so don't let me cross your property" land owners can't determine who will be responsible and who wont so they have very little choice but to deny access to everyone. If you make the effort to ask for permission to cross private property you improve your chances of getting to that remote spot you like, a little effort on your part to be a good neighbor just might solve you dilemma rather than pissing and moaning about land owner's rights.
You're so far off the topic, I don't even know where to start.

We're talking about corner hopping, not driving anything across any property. Foot traffic is the topic ... now that you're back on course.
 

missjordan

Veteran member
Dec 9, 2014
1,136
22
Missoula, MT
According to the state of Montana it?s trespassing. Need one of the adjacent landowners permission to corner jump.

I personally won?t do it even though there?s one section in a area that i Hunt that has a good piece of ground that corner jumps. Thing that?s really screwy is the adjacent land is part of the block management program also but I?ve called to ask if we can still hunt it and FWP said no! It?s really unfortunate that this law hasn?t been changed in my opinion


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

nv-hunter

Veteran member
Feb 28, 2011
1,572
1,294
Reno
Personaly i feel burden of proof is on law enforcement and any one pressing charges, as for air space argument i think that some of the drone rulings might change that.
 

rammont

Active Member
Oct 31, 2016
228
4
Montana
Personaly i feel burden of proof is on law enforcement and any one pressing charges, as for air space argument i think that some of the drone rulings might change that.
So ignore personal property rights and the law as long as you get to do what ever you want to do...

In a society we all give up some of our rights so that we can all live together, if you choose to ignore some laws out of personal convenience then what stops others from ignoring a law that protects a personal right that you agree with.

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about, if you can't see the similarity in thinking between a person that ignores the law when they want to cross a corner and what others do when they trespass in a vehicle then I understand where the 10% come from.
 

CrimsonArrow

Very Active Member
Feb 21, 2011
852
358
Minnesota
So ignore personal property rights and the law as long as you get to do what ever you want to do...

In a society we all give up some of our rights so that we can all live together, if you choose to ignore some laws out of personal convenience then what stops others from ignoring a law that protects a personal right that you agree with.

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about, if you can't see the similarity in thinking between a person that ignores the law when they want to cross a corner and what others do when they trespass in a vehicle then I understand where the 10% come from.
Ok, let's just pretend we are in a state that it is neither legal or illegal to corner hop. Please explain to us how hopping a corner on foot infringes on your property rights.
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
910
953
According to the state of Montana it?s trespassing. Need one of the adjacent landowners permission to corner jump.

I personally won?t do it even though there?s one section in a area that i Hunt that has a good piece of ground that corner jumps. Thing that?s really screwy is the adjacent land is part of the block management program also but I?ve called to ask if we can still hunt it and FWP said no! It?s really unfortunate that this law hasn?t been changed in my opinion


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Statute name and title?

I don't believe a statute exists regarding corner crossing in Montana.
 

BuzzH

Very Active Member
Apr 15, 2015
910
953
So ignore personal property rights and the law as long as you get to do what ever you want to do...

In a society we all give up some of our rights so that we can all live together, if you choose to ignore some laws out of personal convenience then what stops others from ignoring a law that protects a personal right that you agree with.

This is a perfect example of what I was talking about, if you can't see the similarity in thinking between a person that ignores the law when they want to cross a corner and what others do when they trespass in a vehicle then I understand where the 10% come from.
How is stepping from one piece of public land to another piece of public land a "taking" of private property rights?

How is that ignoring the law?

More specifically, what law covers a person stepping between 2 pieces of public land?
 

CrimsonArrow

Very Active Member
Feb 21, 2011
852
358
Minnesota
How is stepping from one piece of public land to another piece of public land a "taking" of private property rights?

How is that ignoring the law?

More specifically, what law covers a person stepping between 2 pieces of public land?
Agreed. It's all about the adjacent private landowner being butthurt over you or I hunting THEIR game.
 

missjordan

Veteran member
Dec 9, 2014
1,136
22
Missoula, MT
Statute name and title?

I don't believe a statute exists regarding corner crossing in Montana.
Heres a newspaper article from 2013 when house bill 235 was rejected to make it legal to corner jump. Montana currently has around 800,000 acres that are landlocked public lands

http://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/montana-legislature/montana-house-rejects-corner-crossing-bill/article_21c541c0-7a31-11e2-a957-0019bb2963f4.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Winchester

Veteran member
Mar 27, 2014
2,466
1,828
Woodland Park, Colorado
I think we are starting to talk about apples and oranges. I suspect the OP was bringing up the point of corner hopping....with a GPS that has a 9m or less CEP ( circular error of probability ), on foot and causing zero damage to ground, fence etc etc.
I think all would agree....driving motorized vehicles on someone's property is not only wrong.....but trespassing and illegal....simple as that.

I myself have no issues with corner hopping. It's legal if you can prove where you are at.

RMEF does a great job at buying small chunks of land to open up bigger chunks that is landlocked or not accessable.
Yeah, I agree, I think we're making this more complicated than it really is. The OP just asks about corner hopping ... not driving a vehicle across private property (clearly illegal). If you just step across a corner while using an accurate map/GPS you never touch private property at all. There can't be anything illegal about staying on public property just because you got close to private property.
 

bdan68

Active Member
Nov 13, 2013
304
40
Rochester, Washington
“It’s legal if you can prove where you are.”

Isn’t it legal even if you can’t prove where you are? It seems to be the landowner and/or law enforcement would have to prove that you trespassed. If there is no monument/fence corner at the corner location, then does the landowner even know where the corner is?