2021 WY Bill for Tag Increases

[BuzzH]

I didn't feel like you were picking on me ... all good . Im not sure how in this country it became a bad thing to have different opinions. No offense taken at all . Id rather have someone spit out what they were thinking instead beating around the bush . Even if i don't agree. From what I read though its not dead just tabled and a task force is to be formed? Is this correct?

Oh, its not dead at all...the message was loud and clear there is going to be changes.

Residents are going to get one of or both of the following:

1. 90-10
2. No more rolling of undersubscribed R deer and pronghorn in the initial draw and allowing Resident another Resident only chance at those undersubscribed tags.

Wyoming's generosity has turned to NR entitlement and that's going to change. We want nothing more than what Residents in other States have...90% of their best tags going to Residents. We'll get there...no doubt in my mind...even more sure of it after yesterday.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz,

Where would you like me to send the box of tissues and the honorary cheerleading participation trophy? lol

You think I'm anything but happy about what happened yesterday? The first time 90-10 was brought to the legislature it had no co-sponsors and didnt even get a committee vote.

There were multiple higher ranking co-sponsors, a 3-2 vote (Salazar voted no with caveat) and Landen is going to be a yes when this bill is brought up again.

You understand zip about the way these issues work or how to go about passing them...simply a matter of pressure and time.

You'll see...Junior.

 

[Winchester]

You have a lot of good information Buzz, but it would be more well received if you didn’t present it in such a condescending and caustic manner all the time.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[mallardsx2]

You think I'm anything but happy about what happened yesterday? The first time 90-10 was brought to the legislature it had no co-sponsors and didnt even get a committee vote.

There were multiple higher ranking co-sponsors, a 3-2 vote (Salazar voted no with caveat) and Landen is going to be a yes when this bill is brought up again.

You understand zip about the way these issues work or how to go about passing them...simply a matter of pressure and time.

You'll see...Junior.

I have never in my born day seen a man filled with more deep rooted hatred towards non-resident hunters ( and for the most part other hunters in general ) on any message board I have ever been a part of. Its actually laughable.

I have asked myself how you could have even become this type of person after reading your arrogant, nasty and condescending posts for years across so many message boards.

Then I decided, I don't really care. Your hour glass is flipped just like the rest of ours. Your sand is draining and your spending your time scheming and cheerleading on how to put the screws to non-residents in a state that has MORE than ample opportunity for its own residents as it stands right now. It makes me sad that such a knowledgeable person such as yourself can have the mindset that you do.

I wish you the best of luck in the draws. And I'm serious, I truly wish you the best of luck and hope you draw some good tags. Maybe it will get your mind right.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I'll start by saying that I don't know much about the resident draw other than some of my friends who live in Wyoming. My perception is that Wyoming , with the least population of any state and the 80% of tags going to residents, is providing their hunters with tons of tags for elk, deer and antelope. The rest of the big game doesn't matter to me personally because I don't apply for them. My friends in Wyoming usually draw all the tags they want and in the areas they want to hunt. Bumping the quota to 90% and almost doubling the fees really puts the screws to NR's for sure. I've had emails from at least 10 outfitters begging me to call the legislators to lobby against the bill.

One thing the draft legislation didn't address is the NR Special Draw. Wonder what happens to that.

Colorado seems like a real bargain for NR hunters. Between 20% % 35% of the tags are set aside for them and it costs the NR hunter $412.61 for a deer or antelope/fishing combo license. Elk is 688.26 for the tag& fishing combo.

Like I said in my earlier post, the NR's are really getting screwed under the proposed legislation.

 

[Yell Co AR Hunter]

I'll start by saying that I don't know much about the resident draw other than some of my friends who live in Wyoming. My perception is that Wyoming , with the least population of any state and the 80% of tags going to residents, is providing their hunters with tons of tags for elk, deer and antelope. The rest of the big game doesn't matter to me personally because I don't apply for them. My friends in Wyoming usually draw all the tags they want and in the areas they want to hunt. Bumping the quota to 90% and almost doubling the fees really puts the screws to NR's for sure. I've had emails from at least 10 outfitters begging me to call the legislators to lobby against the bill.

One thing the draft legislation didn't address is the NR Special Draw. Wonder what happens to that.

Colorado seems like a real bargain for NR hunters. Between 20% % 35% of the tags are set aside for them and it costs the NR hunter $412.61 for a deer or antelope/fishing combo license. Elk is 688.26 for the tag& fishing combo.

Like I said in my earlier post, the NR's are really getting screwed under the proposed legislation.

Your post is exactly what I have been thinking, but I was wrong. I have looked at the draw odds for residents. After looking at the resident odds I don't think it will be such a great deal to lower the nonresident tag allotment. A slight increase in ability to draw a tag over picking up the lost revenue of the nonresident. There are a lot of units that have more applicants than tags offered. Quite a few where odds are low. The simple truth is there is a great demand for these big game tags. If residents really want them all they better be ready to pay the price. That will be need to be about 3 times the current prices to make up the revenue lost from nonresident tags and points. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[BuzzH]

Your post is exactly what I have been thinking, but I was wrong. I have looked at the draw odds for residents. After looking at the resident odds I don't think it will be such a great deal to lower the nonresident tag allotment. A slight increase in ability to draw a tag over picking up the lost revenue of the nonresident. There are a lot of units that have more applicants than tags offered. Quite a few where odds are low. The simple truth is there is a great demand for these big game tags. If residents really want them all they better be ready to pay the price. That will be need to be about 3 times the current prices to make up the revenue lost from nonresident tags and points. Be careful what you wish for.

No, it won't.

I spent some time today looking at this supposed "huge" loss in revenue under 90/10.

If we kept doe/fawn deer, doe/fawn pronghorn and cow/calf elk at 80-20 this would be the "loss" to going 90-10 for all other tags.

NR elk, not one penny would be lost. By regulation 7,250 full price NR tags would still be issued under 90-10...not a penny lost.

NR deer, loss of $1,438,596 is all it would be (a loss of 3,508 NR deer tags)...I calculated that of those 3,508 tags there would be special regular split of 60% regular priced tags, and 40% special priced tag.

NR sheep loss in revenue of $52,500
NR Moose loss in revenue $56,730
NR Goat loss in revenue $20,100
NR Bison loss in revenue $61,708

Pronghorn, no loss as NR's would pick up additional tags that Residents didn't draw when their allocation in increased in the better units. Meaning, many of the mid-tier units would have additional tags available to NR's.

So, total revenue loss would be $1,629,634 if 90-10 were to pass.

There is no way that Residents would have to "pay 3x as much for their tags" to come up with $1,629,634.

For example, if we raised resident adult fishing licenses from $27 to $30....that would generate $222,540.

Raise every full priced resident big-game license by $5....that would generate $743,385.

Raise NR doe fawn pronghorn from $34 to $50....that would generate $258,000

Raise NR doe/fawn deer from $34 to $50....that would generate another $122,000

Just those minor fee increases would generate: $1,345,925

Tell me how you're ciphering residents would have to pay 3x as much for our tags to make up the revenue lost under 90-10....because I'm not buying the snake oil you're trying to peddle...

Facts matter and trumps emotion....every...single...time.

 

[BuzzH]

I'll start by saying that I don't know much about the resident draw other than some of my friends who live in Wyoming. My perception is that Wyoming , with the least population of any state and the 80% of tags going to residents, is providing their hunters with tons of tags for elk, deer and antelope. The rest of the big game doesn't matter to me personally because I don't apply for them. My friends in Wyoming usually draw all the tags they want and in the areas they want to hunt. Bumping the quota to 90% and almost doubling the fees really puts the screws to NR's for sure. I've had emails from at least 10 outfitters begging me to call the legislators to lobby against the bill.

One thing the draft legislation didn't address is the NR Special Draw. Wonder what happens to that.

Colorado seems like a real bargain for NR hunters. Between 20% % 35% of the tags are set aside for them and it costs the NR hunter $412.61 for a deer or antelope/fishing combo license. Elk is 688.26 for the tag& fishing combo.

Like I said in my earlier post, the NR's are really getting screwed under the proposed legislation.

The special draw would have went away...one price for all the NR tags.

I can also tell you that there are going to be some major changes in Colorado (from a reliable source, its already on the table), there is going to be caps on NR elk, and it will all go draw or first come first serve.

There is NO way that CO can sustain unlimited OTC elk. Not only are there not enough elk to go around, its about quality of experience.

I would bet good money, that in the very near future these changes will be implemented...and if I were a Resident of Colorado I would be demanding it.

 

[BuzzH]

I have never in my born day seen a man filled with more deep rooted hatred towards non-resident hunters ( and for the most part other hunters in general ) on any message board I have ever been a part of. Its actually laughable.

I have asked myself how you could have even become this type of person after reading your arrogant, nasty and condescending posts for years across so many message boards.

Then I decided, I don't really care. Your hour glass is flipped just like the rest of ours. Your sand is draining and your spending your time scheming and cheerleading on how to put the screws to non-residents in a state that has MORE than ample opportunity for its own residents as it stands right now. It makes me sad that such a knowledgeable person such as yourself can have the mindset that you do.

I wish you the best of luck in the draws. And I'm serious, I truly wish you the best of luck and hope you draw some good tags. Maybe it will get your mind right.

Wrong....its not about "putting the screws" to non residents.

Its about Wyoming Residents getting the same amount of tags as Residents get in MT, ID, NM, OR, WA, ND, SD, AZ, NV etc.

Come up with a single valid reason why Wyoming Residents shouldn't be getting 90% of the big game tags in the State they reside in.

Its not up to you to decide whether or not residents "already have ample opportunity", you don't speak for the Residents of Wyoming...we speak for ourselves and we're going to get what we're entitled to.

If you don't like it...well, get over it or die with it, I couldn't care less.

I've drawn a lot of good tags, don't really care at this point if I draw another or not. However, many residents haven't and I'm looking to increase their odds. Best way to do that is to make more tags available to them.

 

[Turbodude]

You are one grumpy mf’er

 

[DoubleDropMuley]

The way I see it is Wyoming needs to get the heads out of the sand and get the 90/10 split going for the residents sake, and if nonres don’t think so to bad. Drop out!! I bailed on Utah with 30+ points in the books, there nonres tag allocation sucks and when I started I had a goal of what I wanted and I don’t see it happening in my lifetime so I’ll cut my losses. All the states could make it 100% residents get the tags, wouldn’t bother me one bit, Wyoming offers enough opportunities I’d be alright just hunting here and be money ahead,

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

The special draw would have went away...one price for all the NR tags.

I can also tell you that there are going to be some major changes in Colorado (from a reliable source, its already on the table), there is going to be caps on NR elk, and it will all go draw or first come first serve.

There is NO way that CO can sustain unlimited OTC elk. Not only are there not enough elk to go around, its about quality of experience.

I would bet good money, that in the very near future these changes will be implemented...and if I were a Resident of Colorado I would be demanding it.

I don't like the unlimited elk tags. I don't hunt 2nd or 3rd season for that reason and you are right about the quality of experience. We have already went from unlimited archery tags to drawing for them. Also not all elk units are unlimited. We have already cut the cow tags way back too.

 

[mosquito]

Oh, its not dead at all...the message was loud and clear there is going to be changes.

Residents are going to get one of or both of the following:

1. 90-10
2. No more rolling of undersubscribed R deer and pronghorn in the initial draw and allowing Resident another Resident only chance at those undersubscribed tags.

Wyoming's generosity has turned to NR entitlement and that's going to change. We want nothing more than what Residents in other States have...90% of their best tags going to Residents. We'll get there...no doubt in my mind...even more sure of it after yesterday.

I have to be honest and say i don't understand what you mean by undersubcribed tags ? I do understand what you mean when you say entitlement. I live in a state with very very cheap nonresident overcounter tags. However i do believe its a bit different in this case. So many people have thousands of dollars of hard earned money and years of hopes and dreams waiting their turn . I believe that gives us a right to an opinion and fair treatment.
Now that I understand that these changes have to be done through legislation there is no way someone should have written a bill with such a drastic price change in one year. It absolutely could have been written incrementally over 2 , 3 or 4 years . Even if you agree with me I understand the people voting on this cannot do anything about it . Its yes or no.
If residents really feel like they are not getting their fair share of the tags in there home state... well then i agree and it should change.

 

[shootbrownelk]

You are one grumpy mf’er

One man's opinion.

 

[BuzzH]

You are one grumpy mf’er

Why do I find this advertisement such an appropriate response?

 

[Winchester]

You are one grumpy mf’er

You are correct sir ... He always has been.
The dozen "likes" I received when I called him out on it above is an indicator that alot of people agree.
I doubt there's any way to change the grumpy bastard though so I'm just gonna block him.
I'd rather not read his condescending, grumpy stuff.
You may want to block him too.
If enough people do that he'll be stuck bitching to himself.
Over & out ...

 

[DoubleDropMuley]

I can say if this passes I will no longer hunt Wyoming. The quality of areas I can draw a tag every 2 to 3 years does not justify the cost.
I would like to get in one general elk hunt in my life, but not going to pay the price listed on that bill.
I guess when I get forced out of nonresident hunting I will start working on a bill to keep all nonresidents out of my state, which gives you 6 deer, 1 bear, 2 turkey tags, and small game any method hunting for $350.00 annual.

That’s why im gonna talk Trump to become governor of Wyoming and build the wall around this great state !!!

 

[Hilltop]

No, it won't.

I spent some time today looking at this supposed "huge" loss in revenue under 90/10.

If we kept doe/fawn deer, doe/fawn pronghorn and cow/calf elk at 80-20 this would be the "loss" to going 90-10 for all other tags.

NR elk, not one penny would be lost. By regulation 7,250 full price NR tags would still be issued under 90-10...not a penny lost.

NR deer, loss of $1,438,596 is all it would be (a loss of 3,508 NR deer tags)...I calculated that of those 3,508 tags there would be special regular split of 60% regular priced tags, and 40% special priced tag.

NR sheep loss in revenue of $52,500
NR Moose loss in revenue $56,730
NR Goat loss in revenue $20,100
NR Bison loss in revenue $61,708

Pronghorn, no loss as NR's would pick up additional tags that Residents didn't draw when their allocation in increased in the better units. Meaning, many of the mid-tier units would have additional tags available to NR's.

So, total revenue loss would be $1,629,634 if 90-10 were to pass.

There is no way that Residents would have to "pay 3x as much for their tags" to come up with $1,629,634.

For example, if we raised resident adult fishing licenses from $27 to $30....that would generate $222,540.

Raise every full priced resident big-game license by $5....that would generate $743,385.

Raise NR doe fawn pronghorn from $34 to $50....that would generate $258,000

Raise NR doe/fawn deer from $34 to $50....that would generate another $122,000

Just those minor fee increases would generate: $1,345,925

Tell me how you're ciphering residents would have to pay 3x as much for our tags to make up the revenue lost under 90-10....because I'm not buying the snake oil you're trying to peddle...

Facts matter and trumps emotion....every...single...time.

I think you are forgetting that Wyoming will lose a significant portion of the millions in preference point fees for sheep and moose. You would have to assume many will stop purchasing if they have zero chance to ever draw.

 

[BuzzH]

I think you are forgetting that Wyoming will lose a significant portion of the millions in preference point fees for sheep and moose. You would have to assume many will stop purchasing if they have zero chance to ever draw.

Nope, not forgetting that at all.

Wyoming just made a change this year that NR's don't have to buy a point to enter the NR draw for random tags. They know most NR's are pretty capable of third grade math and are going to be not buying the points. Those with 18-20 will keep buying them, and even some of the mathematically challenged will too.

The NR point gravy train funding is going to come to an end either way.

There is a way to save it, and that's to convert preference points to Bonus Points. That will keep folks buying the $150 points, if they don't they're just making their own odds worse in a bonus point system.

Another thing Wyoming could do is make NR's and R's buy a base hunting license like CO, NV, ID, AZ, MT already do. Lower the preference point fees to $50 and charge $150ish for a base hunting license as a prerequisite to applications.

Moose, sheep, goat and bison and probably LQ elk are going 90-10. Everything else will likely stay under current splits (deer, and pronghorn) as well as reduced price licenses.

Very little funding loss and 700 more Residents in the first 10 years after this passes will get to hunt moose and sheep...probably in the neighborhood of 15K more residents will get to hunt LQ elk areas as well in that same 10 year period.

Those numbers are significant.

 

[Turbodude]

That’s why im gonna talk Trump to become governor of Wyoming and build the wall around this great state !!!

Kind of like as Clint would say: get off my lawn