Catahoula12
Very Active Member
I would be ok with OTC units being limited. They go up for sale and when they are gone they are gone.
Why OTC hunting has ruined CO
- Thread starter CODAK
- Start date
I would be ok with OTC units being limited. They go up for sale and when they are gone they are gone.
Catahoula12
Very Active Member
Winchester
Veteran member
bullwinkle50
New Member
That's what we have in Alaska. If you don't turn in your hunt report, you are not eligible for the draw.
Randy
tdub24
Veteran member
I agree but instead of 7 days, you have till a certain date. I only say this as here in NV you could be hunting 2 or 3 different species at the same time and they end differently. I have been deep with no service when a season has ended and been lucky enough to wait till I got home to fill out the mandatory harvest report. Only thing I do not like about NV is you can just pay a fine the following year to get your name back in the hat. I prefer mandatory year off to teach versus buy your way back in.
mallardsx2
Veteran member
- Jul 8, 2015
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I've been pushing hard in Colo to go to all limited units for elk. When Colo switched over to all limited deer the muledeer quality plus quality experience dramatically improved. If you think about it, having all limited muledeer units spread out applicants over all units in Colo. There are really good muledeer units that can be drawn on a regular basis and it's possible to pick up left over deer tags every year.
The reason I bring this up is because converting over to all draw for elk would do the same as deer. Converting to all draw would help those that have few pts or are currently sitting in no-mans land. There currently are only a hand full of limited elk units vs OTC units in Colo. Since only a low percentage of elk applicants draw limited tags each year, the majority of tags are issued to OTC hunters. If Colo switched over to all draw elk hunters would be faced with burning rather than building pref pts if they draw their first choice tag.
Another huge advantage would be the CPW would FINALLY be able to manage the elk population and hunting pressure (the orange army in OTC units). This is currently impossible with the current OTC system. A lot of Colo hunters complain that elk get pushed onto private land and public land has a high concentration of hunting pressure. With all limited tags the CPW could finally increase or decrease tag quotas from 1 unit to the next.
There has been the possibility of going to cap tags in OTC units......OTC tags until a cap of tags is reached. This would likely do nothing for the point leaping that is taking place in the few limited elk units that exist. As mentioned in several posts above, more and more Colo residents seem to be complaining about how tough it is to draw the few limited tags that are available. There is always the chance that Colo could offer a higher % of tags to Colo residents which would only make it even tougher for nonres to draw tags.
I believe Colo is following suit to other states and will be dramatically increasing the price for nonres to apply and gain a pref pts. This may impact draw odds for limited tags. Some hunters may start applying rather than building pts in hopes of drawing tags rather than throwing expensive tag fees to the wind. My guess is that nonres pref pts will jump in response? Some hunters may drop out but I have a feeling a lot of guys that have invested years into the pref pt system will be prompted to draw tags.
I'm pretty sure things are going to change in Colo in the near future. I would advise all of you to contact the CPW and voice your opinion with well thought out comments. The CPW has 5 year structure plans where they offer public input. Believe, me nonres comments are just as important as res comments. If you are sick and tired of poor experiences hunting crowded conditions in OTC units and/or have been waiting years and years to draw a quality limited elk tag....let the CPW know!
Your guess is as good as mine whether changes will benefit nonres and/or res hunters. Usually it is the nonres that take it on the head. Voice your opinions!
The reason I bring this up is because converting over to all draw for elk would do the same as deer. Converting to all draw would help those that have few pts or are currently sitting in no-mans land. There currently are only a hand full of limited elk units vs OTC units in Colo. Since only a low percentage of elk applicants draw limited tags each year, the majority of tags are issued to OTC hunters. If Colo switched over to all draw elk hunters would be faced with burning rather than building pref pts if they draw their first choice tag.
Another huge advantage would be the CPW would FINALLY be able to manage the elk population and hunting pressure (the orange army in OTC units). This is currently impossible with the current OTC system. A lot of Colo hunters complain that elk get pushed onto private land and public land has a high concentration of hunting pressure. With all limited tags the CPW could finally increase or decrease tag quotas from 1 unit to the next.
There has been the possibility of going to cap tags in OTC units......OTC tags until a cap of tags is reached. This would likely do nothing for the point leaping that is taking place in the few limited elk units that exist. As mentioned in several posts above, more and more Colo residents seem to be complaining about how tough it is to draw the few limited tags that are available. There is always the chance that Colo could offer a higher % of tags to Colo residents which would only make it even tougher for nonres to draw tags.
I believe Colo is following suit to other states and will be dramatically increasing the price for nonres to apply and gain a pref pts. This may impact draw odds for limited tags. Some hunters may start applying rather than building pts in hopes of drawing tags rather than throwing expensive tag fees to the wind. My guess is that nonres pref pts will jump in response? Some hunters may drop out but I have a feeling a lot of guys that have invested years into the pref pt system will be prompted to draw tags.
I'm pretty sure things are going to change in Colo in the near future. I would advise all of you to contact the CPW and voice your opinion with well thought out comments. The CPW has 5 year structure plans where they offer public input. Believe, me nonres comments are just as important as res comments. If you are sick and tired of poor experiences hunting crowded conditions in OTC units and/or have been waiting years and years to draw a quality limited elk tag....let the CPW know!
Your guess is as good as mine whether changes will benefit nonres and/or res hunters. Usually it is the nonres that take it on the head. Voice your opinions!
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
I've attended meetings that are held for public input for years. Sorry....while the CPW staff are interested in your input, the ones that really count (the Commissioners) just seem to act bored and it looks like they really don't give a crap. Hearings are supposed to be for input from the public, just seems like their mind is made up before the hearing starts.
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JimP
Administrator
I haven't looked into Colorado's Parks and Wildlife commissioners but they are usually appointed by the Governor and may or may not have any idea of what hunting or fishing is like. I have also seen them ask the most stupid questions about hunting or fishing where you know that they have no idea. A lot of times they just go by what they want to do.
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
Pretty hard to impact decisions that are made when individual comments at meetings have no impact. I've written letters, sent emails and attended meetings and it really seems to make no difference. I volunteered at local P & W offices, parks and activities for 10 years and have talked to several Commissioners in person in addition to top officials of CP& W and it is like water off a ducks back. I was Volunteer of the Year at a SW Colorado region and attended lots of meetings, almost like being invisible.
HighPlainsHunter
Active Member
Think about an elk hunting trip with friends and Colorado is perfect.
Lots of elk.
Tags are OTC so no planning, points, draw, etc...
Tags are good for a week or so which is perfect for a NR hunter taking a trip.
Transferable landowner tags for those who want premium units and won't wait.
Compare that with other states that require planning nearly a year in advance in some cases. Preference points, waiting to draw, etc...
Compare the 1 week seasons in Colorado to a general elk tag in Wyoming or Montana which lasts for months.
Colorado has done whatever it takes to cater to NR hunters and make $. Heck they even pay hunting shows to promote the OTC tags in the state. In reality they do a really good job of making money from the resource but that does not help residents looking for better elk hunting opportunities. Thus why so many people from Colorado hunt in Wyoming and not vice versa.
Lots of elk.
Tags are OTC so no planning, points, draw, etc...
Tags are good for a week or so which is perfect for a NR hunter taking a trip.
Transferable landowner tags for those who want premium units and won't wait.
Compare that with other states that require planning nearly a year in advance in some cases. Preference points, waiting to draw, etc...
Compare the 1 week seasons in Colorado to a general elk tag in Wyoming or Montana which lasts for months.
Colorado has done whatever it takes to cater to NR hunters and make $. Heck they even pay hunting shows to promote the OTC tags in the state. In reality they do a really good job of making money from the resource but that does not help residents looking for better elk hunting opportunities. Thus why so many people from Colorado hunt in Wyoming and not vice versa.
I would have to agree that there are definite advantages to having OTC elk tags but can the CPW properly manage a limited resource with unlimited tags? The fact that nonres bring so much $ to the CPW and small town communities has the guys in offices in Denver not too willing to make changes to properly manage elk or elk hunting pressure. That's where a lot of the frustration comes from to those that live in Colo.
Colo muledeer on the other-hand have gotten national attention! Muledeer quality improved by leaps and bounds almost immediately after Colo converted to all draw units. The same would likely be true of elk. As I mentioned in my other post above, just because Colo converts to all draw for elk doesn't mean tags are any tougher to draw. There are a lot of benefits that I listed in my post above.....but do the guys in the offices in Denver see it this way...heck no....the almighty dollar seems to be more important than managing elk and hunting pressure! I have a feeling that is why Colo Cowboy and others that are deeply concerned about our resource are so frustrated.
Colo muledeer on the other-hand have gotten national attention! Muledeer quality improved by leaps and bounds almost immediately after Colo converted to all draw units. The same would likely be true of elk. As I mentioned in my other post above, just because Colo converts to all draw for elk doesn't mean tags are any tougher to draw. There are a lot of benefits that I listed in my post above.....but do the guys in the offices in Denver see it this way...heck no....the almighty dollar seems to be more important than managing elk and hunting pressure! I have a feeling that is why Colo Cowboy and others that are deeply concerned about our resource are so frustrated.
Slugz
Veteran member
Interesting read and thoughts by all. My 2 sense.......there are great opportunities in Colorado to meat hunt or horn hunt.
Most people dont take advantage of the opportunity because they cant get off the quad, out of the truck etc etc.
All that is fine by me.
If you compare all western states ( data based, no emotion) in the areas of health of herd (elk), opportunity to hunt multiple seasons in multiple GMUs every year that have different habitat and offer different hunting styles, public land availability......Colorado is tough to beat....very tough.
Now should we do something about the OTC tags to improve quality? There are always areas to improve but the challenge is balancing all other factors to achieve the vision or goal.
FYI I'm not emotionally tied to Colorado at all......but I did do a very in depth study before moving here comparing Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Washington, New Mexico and Utah. After all said and done it was a no brainer by far where to move.
HPD question......is your comment data based or opinion ? "Thus why so many people from Colorado hunt in Wyoming and not vice versa"
Most people dont take advantage of the opportunity because they cant get off the quad, out of the truck etc etc.
All that is fine by me.
If you compare all western states ( data based, no emotion) in the areas of health of herd (elk), opportunity to hunt multiple seasons in multiple GMUs every year that have different habitat and offer different hunting styles, public land availability......Colorado is tough to beat....very tough.
Now should we do something about the OTC tags to improve quality? There are always areas to improve but the challenge is balancing all other factors to achieve the vision or goal.
FYI I'm not emotionally tied to Colorado at all......but I did do a very in depth study before moving here comparing Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Washington, New Mexico and Utah. After all said and done it was a no brainer by far where to move.
HPD question......is your comment data based or opinion ? "Thus why so many people from Colorado hunt in Wyoming and not vice versa"
Catahoula12
Very Active Member
HighPlainsHunter
Active Member
You really think hunting opportunities in Colorado compare to states like Montana and Wyoming? Seriously? Based on what exactly?
I have family in Colorado and they constantly complain about how lucky I am when it comes to hunting. They also have a place in Wyoming they visit to get away from the crowds in Colorado. They have not seen an elk in 2 years with their OTC tags and it makes them sick when I talk about the tags available to WY residents.
Montana gets 3 months of elk season, Colorado hunters get a week. Colorado simply has to many residents to compete with for tags and the season structure is setup for NR's not R's. Not to mention things like transferable landowner tags or getting into other species like antelope or sheep/goats where places like Wyoming/Montana blow Colorado away. If you actually compare western states Colorado is pretty far down the list for resident hunting opportunities.
My comment about more Colorado hunters coming to Wyoming than vice versa is the absolute truth based on yeas of experience and living on highway 287 so I see the line of green plates every weekend. People is Wyoming go to Colorado as well, just not to hunt. Why in the world would someone is Wyoming go hunt in Colorado?
For example why would someone in Wyoming go to Colorado to elk or antelope hunt on a regular basis? What units? Do you realize how long it would take to draw decent tags?
The flow of hunters between Colorado and Wyoming is almost entirely Colorado folks heading to Wyoming to hunt.
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
I do agree that hunting in Wyoming is better for some species.....one in particular: Antelope.
Not so with Deer. I have max points for deer in Wy and have trouble getting a tag for the unit I want to hunt (even a Special tag!). Here in Colorado I can hunt units I want to hunt (in the season I want) with very few points. The units I hunt (in the season I want) take a lot of points for NRs take, usually 12 to 15.
I am very selective on elk, I won't hunt in otc seasons. I usually can get a tag every year...again being pretty selective on the units I like. My experience in Wyoming is not great on NR tags. I had max point for 10 years and couldn't get a tag for the units I wanted, so I finally used them a couple of years ago on a unit I really didn't want, but was successful anyway. I don't apply anymore for elk.
When I get the deer tag I want (probably in 2019), I won't be buying any more. The only hunt in Wyoming I'll be doing in the future is Antelope.
If you do your research and spend time in the field scouting, it is not hard to find good units that you can draw a tag pretty regularly. Recent changes by CP & W in the way we now apply for tags could change that in the future, only time will tell.
Slugz
Veteran member
Yeah I do based upon herd health, hunter opportunity, public land available and overall experience.
I'm not surprised they complain.....any resident in Colorado that is hunting OTC...is completely missing the boat IMO.
287 is heavy with Colorado traffic due to the hunters and U Dub....everyone knows its cheaper to pay out of state fees up there than here...so I suspect a lot of traffic is from that also. Count me in as one of those plates on 287 with a lot of miles on it.
No one from WYO should come to CO to antelope hunt.....that's a given. Now elk hunting different story. Plenty of units to horn or meat hunt in every year with some of those being awesome 1st rifle tags on the leftover list. Just depends how hard people want to work for them. Most of our premium units have great quad, truck access so thats why they get all the attention and point creep.
I agree with your last statement for deer and antelope.
To each his own. As long as its legal I support it, regardless of the state. Thanks for the discussion.
I'm not surprised they complain.....any resident in Colorado that is hunting OTC...is completely missing the boat IMO.
287 is heavy with Colorado traffic due to the hunters and U Dub....everyone knows its cheaper to pay out of state fees up there than here...so I suspect a lot of traffic is from that also. Count me in as one of those plates on 287 with a lot of miles on it.
No one from WYO should come to CO to antelope hunt.....that's a given. Now elk hunting different story. Plenty of units to horn or meat hunt in every year with some of those being awesome 1st rifle tags on the leftover list. Just depends how hard people want to work for them. Most of our premium units have great quad, truck access so thats why they get all the attention and point creep.
I agree with your last statement for deer and antelope.
To each his own. As long as its legal I support it, regardless of the state. Thanks for the discussion.