Muzzleloader recommendations?

[Brady]

I am in the market for a new 50 cal muzzleloader and wanted to hit you guys up on what you like. I would like one that is easy to clean. I used to have a Knight that took a long time to clean and had a ton of small parts that would be easy to lose in the field.

Are there any guns that shoot further than another? Barrel length etc?

Thanks for your tips.

Brady

 

[Old Hunter]

How much do you want to spend, and what state are you going to hunt?

 

[Nebraska Outlander]

Their are a lot of good muzzleloaders on the market now and most of them are pretty easy to clean. Can you give us some more info on what your wanting to do with the muzzleloader as far as hunting style? How far do you want to shoot? What type of game are you looking to hunt with it?? Do you want smokeless or do you just want a normal inline? There are a lot of other questions one could ask yet figured this would get us started.

I am finishing up a smokeless build. I've been using a muzzleloader since the mid 90's and figured I would try the smokeless route this year can wait to start shooting. Once you get the bug you won't be able to quit!

Nebraska Outlander

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

Hey Brady, I've muzzleloader hunted for about 25 years, and had three Knight rifles. They are excellent rifles, but as you mentioned a lot of parts to clean. Get yourself a break action muzzleloader!

For years I thought break action muzzleloaders looked kinda dorky, but last year I bought one and I'll have to say...that is definitely the way to go! When it comes to cleaning, you just break the action open, remove the breach plug and you have a straight shot to clean the barrel. You have almost no residue on the face where the firing pin is and so it just takes minimal wiping with solvent to clean. There is plenty of space to insert the 209 primer and when the action is closed the primer is well protected from the weather. The rifle feels shorter (since there is no bolt) and it is fast handling.

The rifle I bought was a CVA Accura. It is very accurate, in a large part due to the Bergara barrel. Bergara consulted with Ed Schilen who manufactures some of the most accurate barrels available. The new CVA Accura V2 has a breach plug that can even be removed with your fingers, which takes the ease of cleaning one step further. The trigger on the CVA Accura may be one of the best triggers factory triggers I have ever shot...it is sweet. I would whole heartedly recommend it. Go on You Tube and you can look up a few videos on that rifle.

From what I have heard, another excellent break action muzzleloader is the Thompson Center Encore. I have never shot one. With the Encore you can always get alternate centerfire barrels as well. The Encore apparently has to be bought from a dealer with a FFL (Federal Firearms License), but TC also makes another slightly different version that is exclusively a muzzleloader and can be ordered on-line.

Both of these rifles open the break action by pulling back on the trigger guard. That feature is slick, and intuitive.

I think either the CVA Accura V2 or the TC Encore would both be excellent muzzleloading rifles to consider.

 

[BobT]

I have been shooting a TC Encore since they first came out. If you take the time to find the right load they can be really nice shooters. I compromised a little on accuracy for ease of loading but my gun will still put 5 shots in 1.5" or less at 100 yards every time if I do my part. I have shot targets at 200 yards quite a bit and killed a deer at 205, my longest shot ever at a whitetail.

Bob

 

[Old Hunter]

I agree with picking a CVA. The most accurate ML i've ever owned. I've had the Accura V2, Optima, and Wolf. They all shot MOA. I'm waiting now for a new Accura Mountain Rifle that just came out. Hopefully it comes before this ML season starts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6ZDHYx484Q&feature=player_embedded


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tPgaCTjthw&feature=related

 

[Brady]

Thanks for the help guys.

I would like to hunt mulies and elk with a muzzleloader in multiple states in the west and Kansas. For some reason I'm thinking in Texas that you can't shoot smokeless powder. Anyone know if this is true in TX or anywhere out west? I would like to shoot a muzzleloader as far as reasonably possible. I shoot my .270 out to 500 yards. I know that some states have seasons that allow you to use a scope and some that are iron sights only. I'll deal with that when the time comes. It seems like in some states they have early or late season muzzleloader hunts that are better quality hunts than the rifle dates.

When I had my Knight, I just used a couple of the Pyrodex pellets and called it good. Are those pellets good enough to use for accuracy etc or in general do you need to see what your individual rifle will do with different powder combos?

Price does not matter, I'm not married yet (it's coming next year though) haha.

 

[Old Hunter]

I can only speak for Colorado. Here you can't use a scope, pellets, smokeless, or sabots. The ML season is the 2nd week in Sept in the beginning of the rut. (hopefully)

So, your limit here for distance will be the iron sights. You can use a peep sight, and fiber optics.

I recommend the Thor bullet, and BH 209 powder. Both of which work beautifully in the CVA Accura.

 

[Brady]

I would like to shoot 250 yards with a muzzleloader. I've seen on the Long Range Pursuit tv show that they have a muzzleloader that will shoot 500 yards but I'm sure it's crazy expensive.

 

[Old Hunter]

About $5000, and recoil from hell.

The idea of hunting with a muzzleloader is to accept the challenge of limited distance. That's why you get to hunt during the rut here. Trying to turn it into a CF gun is not something I agree with.

 

[Musket Man]

If you plan to hunt Idaho or Washington your muzzle loader can't use 209 primers and the ignition must be exposed. I know TC makes a gun that meets these requirements. I don't know of any other states that won't let you use a 209 primer. In Utah you can use a scope with no magnification such as a red dot. All other states I know of are iron sights only. I have a Knight disc extreme. It's been very reliable and even fired after being under water for 40 minutes!

 

[Nebraska Outlander]

It is neat to see how on this forum people are not so bias about one brand or the other! I also have a CVA and it will shoot 1.25" groups at a 100 yards. Yet I will tell you all the inline muzzleloaders out there will shoot very well if you take the time to dial it in.

What I would recommend is that you figure out what your plans/goals are and then look up the regs on what each state has for each season you tend to hunt or hope to hunt. Then use that as a starting point to figure out what muzzleloader you can get. I would recommend a break action also.

Last recommendation, I would check out Dougs Messaging Board there are a lot of post and articles on there about muzzleloader it would scare you! Register there and talk to the members there they will have a lot of knowledge for you.

Hope this helps,

Nebraska Outlander

 

[Brady]

Sounds like some of the states really want you to be traditional! I guess that is probably a good thing because some of the ML's now basically qualify as CF. I think New Mexico and Colorado will be my primary hunting states, mainly bc they are the closest to Texas where I live. I would like to throw in a Kansas muledeer every now and then. Not sure if ML in Sept or CF in December would be best for KS though. Thanks for all your help guys!

 

[Old Hunter]

Colorado isn't primitive enough for me. I'd love to see a flintlock, PRB, real black powder, primitive sights, and give us the same length season that bow hunters get. I'd be all over it.

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

Brady, you asked about Pyrodex pellets. I would recommend going to loose powder, for two reasons, you can get far more repeatable amounts of powder shot to shot, and you can dial in exactly how much powder you particular gun likes. If you end up with a muzzleloader that shoots 209 primers, I would HIGHLY recommend Blackhorn 209 powder. It has very low residue, and you can get remarkable consistency in your velocities from shot to shot, with no swabbing. I think most guys that are trying to optimize accuracy are shooting loose powder. Some people think it's expensive (Blackhorn 209), but it is only 70% the weight of blackpowder for a given load, and it takes less due do higher velocities you get with that powder.

 

[bigshot]

Brady, you asked about Pyrodex pellets. I would recommend going to loose powder, for two reasons, you can get far more repeatable amounts of powder shot to shot, and you can dial in exactly how much powder you particular gun likes. If you end up with a muzzleloader that shoots 209 primers, I would HIGHLY recommend Blackhorn 209 powder. It has very low residue, and you can get remarkable consistency in your velocities from shot to shot, with no swabbing. I think most guys that are trying to optimize accuracy are shooting loose powder. Some people think its expensive, but it is only 70% the weight of blackpowder for a given load, and it takes less due do higher velocities you get with that powder.

Hey guys, I just bought a new CVA Wolf Muzzleloader, and planning on trying the 209 Blackhorn powder, just wondering what make of 209 primers are you guys using.

 

[Old Hunter]

CCI 209M primers work good with BH 209. You need a hot primer for BH. You should also get a breech plug that is made to shoot BH 209 in the CVA guns. CVA sells one, and Western Powder makes a really nice one. Western makes the BH 209 powder. They cost about $25 and well worth the reliability they give you igniting BH 209. The Western Powder version of the breech plug comes with a drill in a holder. That's the best way to clean out the flash channel in the breech plug. Solvent won't get it out very good. A couple of twists of the drill and you're clean.

 

[bigshot]

Thanks old hunter I'll start searching for 209 mag primers.

 

[Umpqua Hunter]

Bigshot: I'm using Fiocchi (#616) 209 primers in my CVA Accura. I typically have to clean the carbon out of my breech plug every 20 to 30 shots. I am going to experiment with more frequent cleaning to fine tune accuracy.

Here is a very good blog on some issues to consider when selecting a 209 primer.

http://blog.cva.com/muzzleloader-cva-accura/


Here are two good posts on the Blackhorn 209 website on recommended primers:

http://www.blackhorn209.com/specs/primers/

http://www.blackhorn209.com/2011/10/which-primer-is-best-for-igniting-blackhorn-209/


Some common issues in using Blackhorn 209:

1) One problem when shooting Blackhorn 209, is having a primer that is not hot enough. Avoid special muzzleloading 209 primers.

2) Another problem is having a primer that is too "hot" and the primer itself exerts too much pressure on the load and pushes the bullet up the barrel before the powder ignites. This has its own set of ignition and accuracy problems.

3) Also as Old Hunter mentioned, the breech plug needs to be Blackhorn 209 compatible. Many breech plugs can be modified. In the past, the guys at Western Powders (Blackhorn 209 manufacturer) have been helpful with this.

4) Make sure you keep the breech plug clean. Occasionally use a close fitting drill to chase the carbon build up, and a torch tip cleaner to keep the fire channel open. Some guys are going to rifle primers in a 209 adapter to avoid this carbon build up. I have not tried this yet but it looks promising. Here is a link on that solution:

http://www.prbullet.com/lrvf.htm



TROUBLESHOOTING: There should really be no noticeable delay between the "hammer falling" and the load going off. If there is, you need to chase the problem down, and it is typically one of the four things above.

It is definitely worth working through the issues. My Accura worked right off the bat with the Fiocchi primers. Blackhorn 209 is awesome powder and definitely worth the effort to get dialed in.

 

[jay]

Bigshot, have you shot your CVA Wolf yet? I was curious about them cause my brother is in the market for a new muzzleloader for the upcoming season. Was looking at the TC Impact, CVA Wolf, or the Traditions Buckstalker. Thanks for the input guys!