Hunter stripped of his elk

[buckbull]

At least the county prosecutor had enough sense to through the case out. Pretty pathetic for CPO Drew Scot to throw out his own convictions in order to make a video. Any reasonable officer would not have done what he did under that circumstance. Sometimes I think the camera just makes these guys egomaniacs. Just look at all the "celeb hunters" getting busted for game violations.

 

[micropterus79]

I believe the intent of this law is good. None of us were there to see what actually took place but it sure sounds like the warden was just looking for any excuse to issue a citation on camera. The intent of the law is to protect wildlife so it is a good law. However, if the interpretation by the game warden strays from protecting wildlife to harassing well meaning hunters, then the law needs clarification. Wardens should understand the intent of a law before being able to enforce it. I think especially important in this case was that the hunter did tag the elk and he didn't show any intention to continue hunting. I would be very interested to see the video of this incident but I'm guessing we won't due it being controversial.

Well said hilltop, and you're right, we weren't there so who really knows? Understanding the spririt or intent of a law is more important than simply knowing what the law says on paper. I have a feeling the officer in this case was probably aware of this intent and would have handled the situation differently had the cameras not been on. THAT is why I do not agree with the aring of these types of shows to begin with.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Well said hilltop, and you're right, we weren't there so who really knows? Understanding the spririt or intent of a law is more important than simply knowing what the law says on paper. I have a feeling the officer in this case was probably aware of this intent and would have handled the situation differently had the cameras not been on. THAT is why I do not agree with the aring of these types of shows to begin with.

Actually we were right there watching the entire thing unfold so I don't know why you two are saying what you are because the whole debacle was shown right out on the TV show that all of us that are commenting about it watched!!!

 

[Hilltop]

Actually we were right there watching the entire thing unfold so I don't know why you two are saying what you are because the whole debacle was shown right out on the TV show that all of us that are commenting about it watched!!!

I may be wrong but I believe this happened just this fall. The episode, if it even makes the cut for footage, won't air until this next season. You know you are sure quick to attack people with your comments. It does rub us wrong at times.

 

[In God We Trust]

This is pretty pathetic if the articles are correct. This warden was way out of bounds. I agree that putting these guys on camera is ridiculous and should stop. If the guy has enough time to write citations and investigate something like this then Montana has too many game wardens. Idiots like this give Law Enforcement a bad name. I am glad this showed up in papers in Minnesota and the Twin Cities area. I hope more guys from that region call the Montana G and F and let them know they will use their money in other states. Montana charges too much for tags and needs to put a leash on their wardens.

 

[Timberstalker]

That is absolute BS! I have been I situations where it has taken me over an hour to even see if I hit the animal. I never punch my tag till I have my hands on the animal. What if it gets up while in route and you have to track a wounded animal with a punched tag, then a warden intercepts you and gives you a ticket for hunting with an invalid tag? It BS

 

[micropterus79]

Actually we were right there watching the entire thing unfold so I don't know why you two are saying what you are because the whole debacle was shown right out on the TV show that all of us that are commenting about it watched!!!

Topgun makes a valid point and I think debacle is probably a great word for it (I personally did not see a link for a video but I sure could have simply missed it). Although I did not actually watch the video, I did read the article in entirety. What I think is cool is that, so far, we all agree that this is craziness and all hunters should be aware of these situations for at least two reasons:
1.) Try to learn and not make the same "mistake" and just be super extra careful, particularly in MT
2.) Demonstrate a united front and be aware of similar instances in the other states we reside in as to use whatever power we have to insist that abuses of power/tv cameras don't ruin our own hunts.

 

[Don K]

We have this same law here in Illinois. Tagging the animal immediately is when you come up to the animal you are to tag it. I know a guy that tagged it after he field dressed the animal as he did not want to get the tag covered in blood and guts. He was watched and received a fine but the animal was not taken. ( I know this isn't Montana but taking the animal is extreme)

I understand the reason behind the law. They should have it the tag should be notched when you get to the animal and the tag should be attached before the animal is moved. (IMO)

 

[RICMIC]

I agree with your last comment Don. Does this mean that any photo that we have seen of a deer or elk shot in Montana that doesn't have a tag attached would therefore be illegal and subject to forefiture? If so, the Montana DOW betterer get some bigger trucks, because they have a lot of meat to pick up.
I also live in Two Harbors, MN where the desperado lives. I didn't think that I knew him until I saw the photo in the local paper. I actually met Jim Latvala at one of my elk hunting partner's house shortly before he left for Montana. The photo shows him with the antlers and Jim was wearing a USMC cap. Now I'm really pissed. I spent six years in the corps, and anyone Jim's age was almost guaranteed to have served a tour in Nam. Semper Fi

 

[Musket Man]

This is the hunters brothers side of the story.

http://www.montanaoutdoor.com/2014/12/warren-latvala-tells-full-story-of-brothers-citation-of-taking-too-long-to-tag/

 

[AKaviator]

I don't know Montana's laws but in Alaska, "immediately" is defined by regulation to mean "prior to removing from the kill site". Game warden's are granted a wide range of discretionary authority and hopefully use it wisely, most do. It sure doesn't appear that this warden was wise in it's use. The hunter obviously didn't intend to commit any nefarious crime. I'm glad the citation was dismissed by the prosecutor, he/she showed some common sense, at least.

As for the meat; it should be looked into, but I don't think I have enough honest information to form a valid opinion on it.

 

[RICMIC]

I was contacted by Jim L. last night. He had heard from our mutual friend about his case being discussed on this forum. Jim was concerned about what other hunters thought about what happened to him. I told him that there was pretty much universal support, and that the only thing we were unsure about was that we may not be getting the whole story. If you read the complete newspaper article, there was no discrepancy between the wardens and Jim's side of what happened. I will give Jim the info on accessing this forum, and he may well join us in the discussion.
Jim told me that he was contacted by the producer of "Montana Wardens" show and that they want to schedule an interview. He also stated that he is not letting this drop and is continuing to move forward with his complaints. By the way, he is in fact a Vietnam Vet. Semper Fi

 

[BossBrott]

Bad decision on the wardens part IMO. Gives ALL wardens a bad name.

 

[Jim-MN-ELK]

Hello everyone. I'm the new guy here, Jim Latvala the one who had his elk confiscated in MT. . I'll use this comment from Topgun 30-06 for my first post on this site. In about one week after the Billings Gazette ran our story about this, it spread like a wild fire in a hot wind. Other newspapers including Butte, Livingston, Missoula, Helena... Fargo, St Paul Pioneer Press, and the Duluth News Tribune all ran the story. Soon Outdoor News will run it as well. Possibly other papers have ran the story, I don't know. The overwhelming response to this incident has taken me by total surprise... and I can't say I like being the "poster boy" for this. I would have much better enjoyed my quite life here next to Lake Superior making hamburger and sausage from my bull.
I have followed all the remarks posted in the papers and on Face Book which are at least 90% in favor of changing the MT law, getting Reality TV out of Warden's pick-ups and defining in the Montana Hunting Regulations just what "Immediately" is. My brother Warren is a long time resident of MT and my early childhood was in Great Falls. In 2015 Warren will introduce a bill to the MT State Senate and then the House to accomplish the above goals. If anyone has any pertinent information to move this goal through the Senate and the House your input would be appreciated.

 

[NVBird'n'Big]

Awesome that you jumped in Jim! Thanks for taking your time, obviously you are finding lots of support for your cause here. Good luck with everything. I think I speak for most when I say sorry for what happened to you. Glad to see you aren't just sitting back and doing nothing about it. Now that you have found us here at Eastmans you should stick around, there are a lot of good people who love to hunt and share great wisdom, advice, and support.

 

[AKaviator]

Welcome aboard Jim. I'm sure you would rather be known for taking that nice bull elk than all the stuff that followed. Hopefully you'll be successful in getting a regulation change so that at least something positive can come from this.

I hope that not all wardens will be harshly judged by this. Most do a fine job and even the one that you dealt with may make good decisions most of the time and will learn from his mistakes. He should be held accountable for his decisions, both good and bad, as we all should be. I've watched the T.V show of the montana wardens and it looks like they have some very fine wardens there too.

 

[WapitiBob]

Montana says "immediately after killing" and in my opinion it should read "immediately after killing and taking possession". In the end though, immediately isn't that hard to understand. If a guy has time to takes pics and call his buddies, "immediately" was passed up quite a while back. Put the tag on the dam thing first and there won't be a problem.
In my opinion a warning should have been issued but pretty sure I'd have gotten a ticket after a warden told me to "look it up in the dictionary". I'd have gone "TopGun 30-06" on him in a NY minute.

 

[Jim-MN-ELK]

Thanks NVBird'n'Big. I hope to be a contributing member in the future when things settle down. Right now I'm caught in one air burst after another.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I dealt with over 150 different laws and regulations during my 30+ year career with the State of Michigan and I would offer this up for consideration. "Immediately" should be completely wiped out of the Regulations and it should be made to read: "The carcass shall be properly tagged before leaving the kill site with the animal or any part of said animal". The Regulation could then describe where to tag it and how the tag has to be notched, dated, signed, or whatever they require. That would allow a guy time to unload his rifle, get his stuff all together, take pictures, and then field dress the animal and tag it before removing it or any parts if it has to be packed out in pieces. I've probably taken well over 100 animals in 60+ years of hunting, as well as being involved with that many more that friends have taken, and I can't remember one time anywhere that I would have met that "immediately" requirement the way that they are interpreting it!

 

[Jim-MN-ELK]

AKaviator- In all my years of hunting and fishing, this is the first time I've ever had an experience like this. Out on Lake Superior I deal with the MN-DNR law enforcement on a weekly/monthly basis. It isn't my intention here to bash wardens on the whole, as I have enough common sense to know better. However, since this story came out I've seen several comments about the same warden in MT that took my bull. I could fill two pages here about that but I won't. I will say that this warden has a reputation like I've never heard of before.