Hunter stripped of his elk
- Thread starter NVBird'n'Big
- Start date
Topgun 30-06
Banned
If that elk was in the back of the truck that long, it may have spoiled at those temperatures and there was no reason for it to not have been taken to a processor right away when it was confiscated. If it was wasted, that's another reason that GW should be demoted to Office janitor!
micropterus79
Active Member
No kidding! Wasting game meat, at least in my opinion, is a MUCH worse transgression than failing to immediately punch a tag. The GW ought to write himself a ticket and a fine if that elk was in fact wasted.
bdan68
Active Member
If that elk was wasted, the warden should be out of a job, period. There's absolutely no excuse for that. This is one of the laws (wastage) that the wardens are supposed to be enforcing. Yet a Montana warden drives around with a bull all day in the back of his truck? All so they could continue getting more footage for the TV show, I presume? He seriously needs to be fired for exhibiting a lack of common sense and good judgement.
Topgun 30-06
Banned
Amen to that and that's something else that the brothers need to look into. There can't be that many processors in that area and it should be easy to find out if the GW took it in to one and when! If it wasn't, the GW should have some serious explaining to do and maybe even have a warrant served to search his private property in case he took it for himself. The guy filming for Wardens should also be interviewed to get his end of the story and I would not let up on this aspect of the case either if it was me! The Dept. needs to be put on the coals for this whole debacle!
Jim-MN-ELK
New Member
In several letters and statements we have noted the fact that the meat of my bull (not fully dressed out when loaded into the wardens truck) must have gone bad given the time line from the kill to when we saw the warden's truck last. As my brother put it, There isn't a processor in the state who would have taken it. If anything, it was processed at the land fill. Here is one of Warrens statements:
Warren L - December 10, 2014 3:17 pm A few facts not reported follow.
My wife and I own 320 acres directly across the highway from where the elk was dropped. We raise alfalfa and some cattle. We never had elk until the wolves were reintroduced, but now have anywhere between 30 and 200 come across the highway from the river bottom each night to trash our fences to graze on our alfalfa. There were no other hunters in the area, but our neighbors were hunting on the same river bottom section about 3/4 of a mile to the south. After Jim shot the bull the rest of the bunch disappeared into the timber. We soon heard one other shot in the distance to the west. I walked back to the road to go get a tractor to pull the elk, and met the game warden who was parked on the right-of-way about 1/4 mile from the elk. He asked if I had shot the elk, and asked to see my license when I said that my out of state brother had shot it. After seeing my intact license he told me that Jim would likely lose the elk because they had witnessed him tag it but not until 21 minutes after shooting it. He and the cameraman had watched and filmed the whole thing from behind some trees about 1/4 mile away. I went to get the tractor and the warden & cameraman walked down to Jim & the elk. He announced that he was a game warden and told Jim to cut the tag off and give it to him. He checked and found that the tag was completely and correctly tagged and then told Jim he would likely lose the elk because he did not tag it "immediately", but would meet us at the ranch house later. When he did so, in response to Jim's question, he said the rack would be held in an evidence room and the meat would be processed and frozen pending the results in court, should Jim elect to plead not guilty. When Jim asked him what "immediately" meant he replied "It's in the dictionary, you can look it up", obviously playing to the camera. We saw the elk still folded up in the back of his truck well past noon and still an hour away from Bozeman, in 71 degree weather. Three days later the warden's supervisor told the county attorney that the meat had already been processed and given to charity contrary to what the warden said would happen to it. I don't buy that story, there is not a processor in the state that would accept the elk after that delay in hot weather. The warden should be charged with wasting a game animal.
WE NEED YOUR HELP. PLEASE SEND YOUR STATEMENTS TO:
MR. JEFF HAGENER, DIRECTOR
MONTANA FISH, WILDLIFE $ PARKS
P.O. BOX 200701
HELENA, MT 59620-0701
Today I heard back via email from Dan Vermillion, chairman with FWP from Livingston. After reading my 6 page statement he said;
"James,
Thank you for your note regarding your experience elk hunting in Montana. I have read your letter, as well as the different articles in the paper. I am not sure what happened that day, but I am sincerely sorry that your experience with Department staff was so problematic". REALLY? Not sure what happened huh?
larrylur
New Member
Welcome Jim, sorry for your experience. I've hunted Montana four of the last six years and I guess I've been lucky. With all of the excitement of seeing an opportunity, taking the shot, looking for and then finding the animal, I usually settle down for a little while and reflect on everything before I pull out my knife and tag. I'd say by the time pictures were done and we tag the animal, it's usually 20-30 mins from shot.
Never again. That being said, the warden was in the wrong and if your elk was wasted, he should be either disciplined or dismissed.
Never again. That being said, the warden was in the wrong and if your elk was wasted, he should be either disciplined or dismissed.
trkytrack2
Active Member
I agree that that warden was completely in the wrong but really, you guys are just barking at the moon. If you really want to be heard and really complain about this, contact the shows producer, the sponsors and the head of the Wyoming Game and Fish. Let them know how you feel about this. Their the ones you need to scream and holler to.
Topgun 30-06
Banned
You really need to catch up on this thread because it doesn't even involve the state of Wyoming. The incident happened up in Montana and everyone you mentioned is well aware of the situation and the hunter has even been contacted by the producer of the TV show for an interview because of all the static being raised!
Bitterroot Bulls
Veteran member
Welcome to EF Jim!
I was sure sad to read about your story. I am sorry you had this terrible experience in my home state.
I hope you get the resolution you are looking for, and I applaud you for trying to make a positive change.
I do take some exception with the broad brush being stoked about by some other posters here though.
I think saying that this is why people "hate cops and game wardens" is a bit much. That is like saying that all Marine Reservists are homicidal maniacs because Bradley Stone went on a killing rampage in Pennsylvania last week.
There is no doubt this was an overzealous citation that was righteously dismissed by Swandal. Perhaps some discipline or training on discretion are due the game warden. However, saying that all peace officers, or simply all Montana Game Wardens, are jerks because of this bad ticket is ridiculous. I know game wardens in MT that are hard working and reasonable people.
Wardens in my area recently took down a long-term bear poaching ring successfully, and I am thankful for it. I am certain that there are good game wardens in MT that would not have made the same call this one did.
As far as the show goes, I don't watch it. I certainly don't like the idea of it affecting how the wardens are doing their work.
I would also like to see the "immediately upon kill" law changed to "prior to being removed from the kill site." Just seems more reasonable. I bet we see something like that in the upcoming MT legislative session, which would help prevent something like this from happening again.
I was sure sad to read about your story. I am sorry you had this terrible experience in my home state.
I hope you get the resolution you are looking for, and I applaud you for trying to make a positive change.
I do take some exception with the broad brush being stoked about by some other posters here though.
I think saying that this is why people "hate cops and game wardens" is a bit much. That is like saying that all Marine Reservists are homicidal maniacs because Bradley Stone went on a killing rampage in Pennsylvania last week.
There is no doubt this was an overzealous citation that was righteously dismissed by Swandal. Perhaps some discipline or training on discretion are due the game warden. However, saying that all peace officers, or simply all Montana Game Wardens, are jerks because of this bad ticket is ridiculous. I know game wardens in MT that are hard working and reasonable people.
Wardens in my area recently took down a long-term bear poaching ring successfully, and I am thankful for it. I am certain that there are good game wardens in MT that would not have made the same call this one did.
As far as the show goes, I don't watch it. I certainly don't like the idea of it affecting how the wardens are doing their work.
I would also like to see the "immediately upon kill" law changed to "prior to being removed from the kill site." Just seems more reasonable. I bet we see something like that in the upcoming MT legislative session, which would help prevent something like this from happening again.
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Bitterroot Bulls
Veteran member
Also,
All the coverage I saw said the meat had been processed and donated to a food bank, so at least it didn't rot.
All the coverage I saw said the meat had been processed and donated to a food bank, so at least it didn't rot.
buckbull
Veteran member
- Jun 20, 2011
- 2,167
- 1,354
Well that's good. Maybe the hunter can claim that "donation" as a tax deduction?
Topgun 30-06
Banned
The hunter stated he saw the bull still in the back of the GW truck at least seven hours after it was confiscated and the weather was warm! To the best of my knowledge the state has not even tried to show or prove that the bull was properly taken care of to dispute the allegation that it may have been wasted, which would be a violation of wanton waste game laws even by the GW! I don't think anyone has stated that all cops and GWs are bad, but all it takes is one or two instances of ones not using common sense to have a lot of people thinking there is a lot more abuse than there actually is. What is going on right now with a couple of the high profile black citizen/white cop situations is a good example.
bdan68
Active Member
Just because the game warden said the meat was donated, doesn't mean it was.
You don't think game wardens are capable of lying?
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Bitterroot Bulls
Veteran member
Well, according to the article I read the prosecutor that dropped the charges (not the game warden) said the meat was donated. I was just relaying that information.
I choose to believe it, but I didn't investigate the validity of this reporting, the reliability of the reporter, or how the prosecutor learned of the donation.
As far as being capable of lying, all people are capable of lying, regardless of what they do for a living. Of course.
shootbrownelk
Veteran member
Exactly right TopGun, I read the same thing. I'll tell you one thing, 7 hours in the back of a pick-up truck , whole, with the hide still on....in warm weather is a recipe for spoilage. I'd never eat any of that elk. And you can bet that Montana G&F is was doing some serious "Damage control" over this un-nesessary fiasco. As a side note, I doubt that anyone watching that Montana based "Wardens" TV show would even consider a hunt there. Looks like the Wardens go out of their way to ticket and fine folks for minor infractions that would be better served with a verbal warning. The Montana G&F can say the meat was processed, that sure doesn't mean it really was.
Jim-MN-ELK
New Member
They say it didn't rot. We say it did. I have asked for proof of the place and time that my animal reached any processor. Then I'd like the processor's statement. And what about warden Drew Scott's statement to me... "The head will be kept in a locker as evidence, the meat will be processed and frozen until the outcome of your court date."??? That obviously did not happen... but why? Do they think that out-of-state hunters will not question tickets handed to them? Do they think we won't take the time to return to Montana if there is a court date? Before my case was thrown out by the Justice Judge, I had a court date of tomorrow (12/22/2014). I would be in Montana right now, were it not the use of common sense on the part of the County Attorney and the Judge.
RICMIC
Veteran member
I think that the meat issue can be resolved with a little bit of investigation. I could make some phone calls, but without an official status or going there in person, that often just closes things off. Jim, your brother lives in the area, and he is a party to this, so he has a right to this public information. I would go the the DOW office and obtain a list of the processors that they use, and the name of the specific one used for your elk. Then it's just a matter of a personal visit to the processors, making it clear that their role was not improper in any way. If they don't provide the information, then go backwards from the local food shelf, and find out who supplies meat to them. Game on.