Draw Process Working Group Recommendations on Primary Draw Methods & Preference Points

[JimP]

I've always been for applicants loosing their points when they return a tag, except for limited reasons such as medical, military, and just a few more.

Most return tags just because they are not seeing the quality of animals that they expected.

 

[Winchester]

As far as the 2nd draw, returned tags, re-issue tags going through a 75/25 R/NR process, I feel that's getting pretty greedy...

Greedy? That's an odd statement since Colorado is by far more generous with nonresident tags than any other western state.
And as for 75/25 being "greedy" ... you may be wishing for that once all the westeren states get done shifting to 90/10.

 

[disabled combat vet]

Not being a smart ass but if you guys want the benefits of the residents just move to the state you want to hunt in.

 

[Winchester]

^^ You pretty much summed it up.

 

[mallardsx2]

Greedy? That's an odd statement since Colorado is by far more generous with nonresident tags than any other western state.
And as for 75/25 being "greedy" ... you may be wishing for that once all the westeren states get done shifting to 90/10.

It’s same old disagreement as usual with you and others on here as it is with other guys on other sites. Rushing to the defense of someone who thinks that I shouldn’t even have a fair shake at the scraps that nobody even wanted so they turned them back in. Now people are suggesting that residents should have 75% of those scraps? Come on man.. Lol

You residents want all the tags, for the same low prices and you don’t care about non-resident dollars until you need help defending yourselves. (Which by the way it appears that you need a bigger caucus right now….) “oh the big bad wolf fight - send us money ”, “please give us money to fight off the lion initiative” ect etc flooding my email… I would find it all (almost) very humorous if it wasn’t such a serious situation. You need NR SUPPORT and cutting their tags is not a way to keep that support coming.

So ya….asking for a 75/25 split on the scraps after the primary draw has concluded, while still paying the same minuscule amount (while nr’s float your finance department) is a bit greedy in my opinion.

So, yes, that’s the word I was looking for.

You’re only screwing yourselves by going to a 90/10. Driving away more support year by year until it’s just residents drawing tags. At least the cpw commissioners recognize the value NR’s bring to the table and embrace it on your behalf.

90/10 isn’t coming to Colorado anytime soon. They like our NR money too much. The western hunting fad will slow once people are smart enough to realize that they are not wanted, can’t draw tags, and it will be residents left holding the bag.

You’ll be wishing for that NR support once states go to a 90/10….

So keep on.

 

[mallardsx2]

Not being a smart ass but if you guys want the benefits of the residents just move to the state you want to hunt in.

Even if I moved there I would be smart enough to realize the value that NR’s would bring to the table…..

 

[JimP]

If the Colorado leglesature has their way this year non residents will need to think before heading here to Colorado with a firearm.

Two laws that they are pushing are requiring you to have liability insurance for your firearm, the other is your firearm will need to be locked up in the trunk of your vehicle inside a hardcase, if you have a pickup truck you are just out of luck.

 

[Winchester]

I lived in many places around the world before I decided to live in Colorado, partly because I wanted to hunt here.
So yes, as a resident I have a right to want more of the tags set aside for the folks who live here.
I moved here so I could hunt here and have something to say about how CPW does their business.
You have that same right in Georgia (but there's no nonresidents flocking there trying to take away your hunting privileges).

I would vote for 90/10 in Colorado right now (and I'm not alone) and I'd glady pay the increase in resident licenses costs necessary.
The CPW Commissioner's don't recognize the value nonresidents bring because there is none, other than money.
Residents travel around the state and buy gas and groceries and motel rooms when they're hunting just like nonresidents.
Nonresidents contribute money for licenses, and most residents would be glad to pay the difference for increased hunting opportunities.
If you want to hunt in Colorado more often you are welcome to move here, until then it's up to us to manage our state.
Maybe we can open a Georgia Section on the Forum so you can focus on that.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Well said Dave. I too moved here when I retired 24 years ago for the hunting, fishing and rural living. I only wish I could have done it sooner. I hunt out of state and gladly pay more to do it. I really have problems with the unlimited OTC bull elk tags that CPW issues for 2nd & 3rd season. I try not to hunt or be in the field during these times when the orange army invades us. I too would gladly pay more for limits on the amount of NR hunters and limited OTC tags.

 

[Winchester]

A lot of residents would CC.
When they allowed public comments during the Commissioner’s meeting virtually every single person (and they allowed a couple hours of comments) said they wanted to reduce crowding by Nonresidents and increase Resident hunting opportunities.

 

[mallardsx2]

I lived in many places around the world before I decided to live in Colorado, partly because I wanted to hunt here.
So yes, as a resident I have a right to want more of the tags set aside for the folks who live here.
I moved here so I could hunt here and have something to say about how CPW does their business.
You have that same right in Georgia (but there's no nonresidents flocking there trying to take away your hunting privileges).

I would vote for 90/10 in Colorado right now (and I'm not alone) and I'd glady pay the increase in resident licenses costs necessary.
The CPW Commissioner's don't recognize the value nonresidents bring because there is none, other than money.
Residents travel around the state and buy gas and groceries and motel rooms when they're hunting just like nonresidents.
Nonresidents contribute money for licenses, and most residents would be glad to pay the difference for increased hunting opportunities.
If you want to hunt in Colorado more often you are welcome to move here, until then it's up to us to manage our state.
Maybe we can open a Georgia Section on the Forum so you can focus on that.

There are a TON of NR hunters in GA by the way. We actually sell more hunting licenses than Colorado. I simply have never had a problem with NR's because they bring money into our state that otherwise would stay in Florida, Alabama, and North/South Carolina. We have plenty of game to share. I'm just not that greedy of a guy to want more for myself I guess. Even the LQ WMA hunts are open to NR's to apply and our preference points are FREE to obtain. lol

But, its awesome to know how you feel about NR's. Especially with the predicament that you are currently in with a flatlined/decreasing resident hunting population. I always had my suspicions but now we all know. So you guys just go ahead keep digging that ditch around yourselves (what's left).

This forum has changed so much over the years. I never dreamed when I joined 9 years ago that a DIY western hunting forum would turn against one another like this over a handful of big game tags that nobody even wanted in the first place..Sigh....

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

First we are not talking about HUNTING LICENSES, we are talking about big game tags! Recount and tell me the difference.

I don't think that the DIY western hunters have turned against one another and a handful of unwanted tags. Each state has "a handful of WANTED big game tags that are in high demand, hence high preference points needed to draw one of them. IMHO these are what we argue about.
Most western states ( I think all of them) charge more for NR to hunt their state, they also limit the number of tags set aside for NR hunters. It has been that way since I have hunted (my first NR hunt was in 1964) and is not going to change.....only slightly modified to deal with individual problems that show up every few years like extreme weather, drought or disease.

I guess if the situation in your mind is so bad, you could stay home and enjoy your home state. Just sayin................

 

[Winchester]

This forum has changed so much over the years. I never dreamed when I joined 9 years ago that a DIY western hunting forum would turn against one another like this over a handful of big game tags that nobody even wanted in the first place..Sigh....

Concluding with “Sigh” … Overly dramatic much? Histrionic maybe? Take it easy, ok…

First of all, this Forum is awesome. It allows people like you and me to discuss things (semi cordially) and get our thoughts out there for others to consider. I may not agree with you but that has nothing to do with the Forum, it continues to be a great platform for discussion.

So back to the real problem, which is of course that there aren’t sufficient licenses to meet demand. So how do the CPW Commissioners handle that and how do they divide the tags?

Colorado has been using OTC tags to satisfy everyone’s desire to hunt, but many hunters now feel OTC tags are hurting wildlife by putting too many hunters in the field and taking too much game. Overcrowding is the other issue with OTC tags since it’s not very enjoyable to watch the sun come up over your favorite hunting spot only to see a sea of florescent orange hats in front of you … it’s not all that safe either. So many residents want to stop the OTC tags and the Commissioners are discussing it. Some say just stop nonresident OTC tags and others say all OTC tags … either way something has to change there. (Note: nearly all public comments during the CPW Commissioner’s Meeting were from residents wanting to end nonresident OTC Tags … Just archery for now but rifle will be next). This is coming to a head in Colorado because we’re the only place nonresidents can still get OTC tags as other western states have already begun reducing nonresident limited tags.

As for Limited Tags in Colorado, many nonresidents seem to think CO, and other western states, owes you something … they do not. Residents who live here, spend money year-round, pay taxes, vote, etc. are the people the state has a responsibility to … not nonresidents.

Residents understand some nonresidents are going to be permitted to hunt here, and that’s fine. Colorado has historically had a 65%/35% resident /nonresident split which is no longer sustainable. The Commissioners recently voted to change it to 75%/25% which is still the most generous of any western state. But when nonresidents jump on the forum and complain that’s not good enough and you should have more, more, more (mallards seems to be the worst complainer of the bunch) you sound like an entitled child complaining that you’re not getting everything you want, when in reality you aren’t entitled to anything at all.

Western states like Colorado should set license quotas to support their wildlife and their residents. Nonresidents can apply for their assigned share. If nonresidents want more, or think you’re entitled to more, then move out here and become a resident, it’s just that simple.

 

[mallardsx2]

Residents understand some nonresidents are going to be permitted to hunt here, and that’s fine. Colorado has historically had a 65%/35% resident /nonresident split which is no longer sustainable. The Commissioners recently voted to change it to 75%/25% which is still the most generous of any western state. But when nonresidents jump on the forum and complain that’s not good enough and you should have more, more, more (mallards seems to be the worst complainer of the bunch) you sound like an entitled child complaining that you’re not getting everything you want, when in reality you aren’t entitled to anything at all.

For the purposes of this discussion, I want to revert back to what I took issue with since you are confusing what I am "complaining about". For the record, I understand that residents want as many tags as they can get. Your residents, you pay taxes, you breath the clean Colorado air....yada yada yada. Call it 65/35 or 75/25 or 80/20 or 90/10. Whatever your state decides that is completely out of my control.

So back to the real gripe I have, which is of course is with what ColoradoV said, which was, "As I said all licenses, second draw, returned tags, youth, 1-4choice should be given out at 75-25 split and residents are losing a bunch not getting this in the change. "

This to me is getting greedy. This is AFTER the primary draw, and this includes all of the tags that nobody wanted. Right or wrong? You took issue with me calling it a greedy move. Thats fine.

Sir, I am NOT asking for more licenses. RESIDENTS are the ones asking for more. So, I don't know why you are turning this around on me and calling me entitled? I am trying to keep a glimmering spark of what NR's have currently been allotted, which in the grand scheme of things really isn't much for what we pay for.

To get on here and call me childish for wanting more, more when I NEVER said I wanted more of anything in this conversation is a bit of a stretch but I got thick skin so I'll take it.

 

[Winchester]

This is just another verse of your same old song ... you want licenses which you are not entitled to.

Coloado V is right.
75/25 is the most generous split of any Western state ... it should at least be applied across the board.
As he said "... all licenses, second draw, returned tags, youth, 1-4choice should be given out at 75-25 split ..." He's correct!!
Even then nonresidents would be getting a tremenous amount of Colorado's tags ... more than any other western state.
So is this being Greedy? Certainly not. Just the opposite, a 75/25 spilt across the board is extremely generous and nonresidents should be very happy with that.

 

[mallardsx2]

This is just another verse of your same old song ... you want licenses which you are not entitled to.

Coloado V is right.
75/25 is the most generous split of any Western state ... it should at least be applied across the board.
As he said "... all licenses, second draw, returned tags, youth, 1-4choice should be given out at 75-25 split ..." He's correct!!
Even then nonresidents would be getting a tremenous amount of Colorado's tags ... more than any other western state.
So is this being Greedy? Certainly not. Just the opposite, a 75/25 spilt across the board is extremely generous and nonresidents should be very happy with that.

Without doing an almost a weeks worth of math...

If the state of Colorado went to a 75/25 across the entire draw system, from start to finish, as proposed above, Residents would not be able to fill all of those type A tags without the CPW expanding it to allow them to get 2 type A tags per season.....You would have so many tags available to you that they would simply go unsold.

And I am the entitled one. lol

 

[Winchester]

Ummmm ... wow ... no.
Simply not true ... nice try though.

Yes, you still have an entitled attitude.
You believe you should get more than 25% of the licenses, across the entire draw system, in a state where you do not even live.
Why would you ever think that?
They are Colorado's licenses.
You do NOT live here but you believe you are entitled to them anyway.
Crazy.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Without doing an almost a weeks worth of math...

If the state of Colorado went to a 75/25 across the entire draw system, from start to finish, as proposed above, Residents would not be able to fill all of those type A tags without the CPW expanding it to allow them to get 2 type A tags per season.....You would have so many tags available to you that they would simply go unsold.

And I am the entitled one. lol

How do you know that residents would not be able to fill all the type A tags? Lots of residents only apply for point when they know they don't have enough points to draw what they want.....I am one of them! The new secondary draw is taking care of tags that are not drawn. I applied for 4 each for deer and elk and drew a tag for each. True, not the one I would have preferred, but at least I had a tag and a chance at filling my freezer.

 

[mallardsx2]

You believe you should get more than 25% of the licenses, across the entire draw system, in a state where you do not even live.
Why would you ever think that?

That is NOT what I said. You are cherry picking what you want from this conversation to fit your narrative/argument.

I do however understand why people (residents) are asking for 75/25 in all draws.....With the CPW putting the squeeze on the usage of preference points, residents want to just put in their four hardest choices in the primary, not get drawn, gain a point, and then just get a tag in the secondary and basically a continue down the same old path of the same old system. The real reason residents feel that they should go to a 75/25 in those later draws is just so they have those tags sitting there waiting for them for when they are unsuccessful in the primary and have gained a point. Clever strategy but unfortunately, that does nothing to help curb point creep and only continues the problem going forward.

 

[mallardsx2]

How do you know that residents would not be able to fill all the type A tags? Lots of residents only apply for point when they know they don't have enough points to draw what they want.....I am one of them! The new secondary draw is taking care of tags that are not drawn. I applied for 4 each for deer and elk and drew a tag for each. True, not the one I would have preferred, but at least I had a tag and a chance at filling my freezer.

Like I said, without doing a weeks' worth of math, and only basing it on what math I could scrounge up from my spreadsheets, that there were 10,000 type A tags available just in the leftover day and re-issue days alone.... How many went to R vs NR I have not a clue.

The sheer number of type A tags that are offered after the primary draw as 2ndary, leftover, returned and re-issue is mind blowing. To have a full 75% of those tags would be a significant number of tags that in my opinion would go unfilled if they were only allocated to residents.

The CPW would be unwise to limit those tags to only residents when they could easily sell a lot of them to NR's at NR prices as they have in the past. Thats what I am getting at.

Its all-good conversation and I don't hold it against any of you guys for wanting tags as I would hope that you don't hold it against me for wanting to draw a tag here or there after being so heavily vested in your system for years. I hope everyone draws their tag they want and fills their freezer, and I only hope to draw a tag every few years.

Good luck in the draws this year.