Draw Process Working Group Recommendations on Primary Draw Methods & Preference Points
- Thread starter Winchester
- Start date
I have 30+ years of Army service
Definitely not a democrat
And even though I’m in Colorado I don’t smoke dope either
Definitely not a democrat
And even though I’m in Colorado I don’t smoke dope either
disabled combat vet
Active Member
JimP
Administrator
The big thing is I don't care if you have a D, R, I, or whatever behind you name when it comes time to vote us hunters need to stick together.
I can understand those just getting into the hunting game wanting a random draw, I also understand those of us who have accumulated a number of points to want to keep the status quo on the points. I also understand that something needs to be done when you only have XX amount of animals and XXX amount of hunters who want to hunt those animals. There are only a couple of states left where you can go down to the license store and pick up the tag of your choice for the most part. But those states are also seeing the problems coming up on them real fast and that they are going to have to change if they want any animals left out in the wilds.
I've lived through the good times in two states where you could pretty much go down to the license store and pick up the tag or tags of your choice, plop down your money and they go hunt the entire state for that animal, except for a few areas. But I realize that those days are long gone and it is not going to get any better in the long run.
I can understand those just getting into the hunting game wanting a random draw, I also understand those of us who have accumulated a number of points to want to keep the status quo on the points. I also understand that something needs to be done when you only have XX amount of animals and XXX amount of hunters who want to hunt those animals. There are only a couple of states left where you can go down to the license store and pick up the tag of your choice for the most part. But those states are also seeing the problems coming up on them real fast and that they are going to have to change if they want any animals left out in the wilds.
I've lived through the good times in two states where you could pretty much go down to the license store and pick up the tag or tags of your choice, plop down your money and they go hunt the entire state for that animal, except for a few areas. But I realize that those days are long gone and it is not going to get any better in the long run.
disabled combat vet
Active Member
I am 51 years old and been hunting since I was 12 years old and I'm still for the random draw, also I have Elk and Antelope points to but again still for the random draw. Don't get me wrong JIMP I'm not trying to start a argument I'm just saying I been hunting for a while to maybe not as long as you and I'm not new and I still have no issue with a random draw and I also have points to lose to, I really don't care either way I was just voicing my opinion.
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JimP
Administrator
What it's coming down to is that as hunters we are our own worst enemies.
We all complain about point creep but want to keep everything as is instead of looking at ways to get hunters through the draws quicker.
That's where I'd like to see all points used for any tag that is obtained through the draws. If you want to build points then build points and hope that you can get a tag that you like when they go OTC.
Or go to the extreme as Utah has on their deer tags. If you obtain any tag, through the draw or OTC you loose all your deer points.
Something drastically needs to happen and I doubt that any of us will like it.
We all complain about point creep but want to keep everything as is instead of looking at ways to get hunters through the draws quicker.
That's where I'd like to see all points used for any tag that is obtained through the draws. If you want to build points then build points and hope that you can get a tag that you like when they go OTC.
Or go to the extreme as Utah has on their deer tags. If you obtain any tag, through the draw or OTC you loose all your deer points.
Something drastically needs to happen and I doubt that any of us will like it.
Well, I listened to the entire Commissioner’s meeting for two days and didn’t witness what you’re describing. The Commissioners understand the issues and they seem genuinely interested in trying to solve them. I don’t always like what the Commissioners do but I liked what I heard during this meeting.
When they took public comments most of them were from residents who wanted to ensure they get fair consideration since sometimes the commission does seem to favor nonresidents a little too much based on the revenue they generate.
If you’re truly dissatisfied call in during the next meeting and tell them what you think.
Have a nice evening.
When they took public comments most of them were from residents who wanted to ensure they get fair consideration since sometimes the commission does seem to favor nonresidents a little too much based on the revenue they generate.
If you’re truly dissatisfied call in during the next meeting and tell them what you think.
Have a nice evening.
Slugz
Veteran member
These are all great discussions points.
I think we need to baseline all this with making sound decisions to be in line with North American Model of Wildlife Conservation. All these OTC units regardless of type of weapon needs to be reduced IMO. I see too many spots that in my boots on the ground view, should not be OTC.
Point creep is out of control so something has to be done. I like what I'm hearing. I shouldnt be able to hunt and build points at the same time.
I think we need to baseline all this with making sound decisions to be in line with North American Model of Wildlife Conservation. All these OTC units regardless of type of weapon needs to be reduced IMO. I see too many spots that in my boots on the ground view, should not be OTC.
Point creep is out of control so something has to be done. I like what I'm hearing. I shouldnt be able to hunt and build points at the same time.
mallardsx2
Veteran member
- Jul 8, 2015
- 3,819
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For those that want to watch the meeting(s) like I did, see below.
I’ll hold most of my comments for a few more days but I echo what Slugz said. Point creep is out of control and something needs to be done about it.
AND: I would like to voice my displeasure of Gary Skiba getting on there crying about how he didn’t get confirmed and how everyone was wrong about him. He's a slimy wolf lover and him getting on there like that was borderline inappropriate/tacky in my opinion.
Here you go.
I’ll hold most of my comments for a few more days but I echo what Slugz said. Point creep is out of control and something needs to be done about it.
AND: I would like to voice my displeasure of Gary Skiba getting on there crying about how he didn’t get confirmed and how everyone was wrong about him. He's a slimy wolf lover and him getting on there like that was borderline inappropriate/tacky in my opinion.
Here you go.
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
Maybe something like 2 points for second and one for third choice.
I am old enough to remember when there was no draw and 2 seasons (one early for Coastal , one late for Inland) in California where I grew up and started hunting. The seasons were over a month long. Then they started managing the big game by herds and areas and dividing the state up into hunting zones/units and limiting the number of tags available. Most states do it this way today. Most states were random draw. Don't really know where preference point started, but it became a way for states to make more money by charging for them.
A large problem as I see it is public vs private land, at least in the western states. When you start looking at the points it takes to draw a decent tag in public land, the points are sky high. The units that go for less points are usually dominated by private land where there is no access or trespass fee are really high.
I don't have a problem with random draw, but the states I hunt all have points and they are never going to get rid of them.....too much $$$ at stake for the states to lose the revenue.
ColoradoV
Very Active Member
- Oct 4, 2011
- 798
- 823
Looks like they are leaving lo tags the same. They should change them like all other licenses need to be allocated.. All licenses, returned tags, youth, 1-4 choice, it’s only fair they are allocated at a 75-25 split. I would be ok if they use your points but doubt it will go there.
My family uses several lo tags a year we usually pass on antelope, use the deer, and my dad gets an elk tag. Sometimes I hunt deer with one if I don’t draw. Friends don’t sell them and just help local life long friends hunt.
Real travesty is splitting archery deer into 2 seasons.. It will not be long til this commission splits elk archery into an early and late if they do it to deerz………………
As I said all licenses, second draw, returned tags, youth, 1-4choice should be given out at 75-25 split and residents are loosing a bunch not getting this in the change.
My family uses several lo tags a year we usually pass on antelope, use the deer, and my dad gets an elk tag. Sometimes I hunt deer with one if I don’t draw. Friends don’t sell them and just help local life long friends hunt.
Real travesty is splitting archery deer into 2 seasons.. It will not be long til this commission splits elk archery into an early and late if they do it to deerz………………
As I said all licenses, second draw, returned tags, youth, 1-4choice should be given out at 75-25 split and residents are loosing a bunch not getting this in the change.
tim
Veteran member
Idaho is random draw for sheep\moose\goat. I drew a tag in 2004, have not drawn one since. In a random draw, there is a chance, you will never draw.
Pesonally, i don't care what party you belong to. If you are a good person, you are a good person. All parties have good people and all parties have bad people. I wish we could go back to not hating someone, because they think different than you do.
Pesonally, i don't care what party you belong to. If you are a good person, you are a good person. All parties have good people and all parties have bad people. I wish we could go back to not hating someone, because they think different than you do.
disabled combat vet
Active Member
Hmmm who said anything about hating people ????? I know it wasn't me!!!!!!
As I mentioned in my notes, the Commission is considering 75-25 but just for the primary draw, which actually takes some tags away from residents since that will eliminate the 80/20 split they recently approved for “high demand” tags … which hasn’t even gone into effect yet.
When it came time for a couple hours of public comments pretty much everyone was a resident pointing out how the Commission is giving away too much to NONresidents and screwing the residents. It was a universal sentiment from the people who called in.
JimP
Administrator
One thing that I wonder about is just how well the commission gets the word out that they are going to have a meeting and are soliciting comments. I won't say that I didn't see something but I can't remember seeing anything about it. The CP&W web site is very poorly designed for someone looking for information on a lot of subjects and it takes a while to dig through all the links to find what you might be looking for if you are not familiar with it.
Plus unless a non resident has a gripe or interest in what is happening and stays informed I doubt that very many would actually watch or call in to make any comments.
Residents will always gripe about the number of tags that are issued to non residents. The ratio could go to 99:1 and the residents would still gripe about the non resident getting that 01% of the tags, it's just the way that it is. A lot of residents figure that all the animals in the state belong to them and that no one else should be able to hunt them. It is that way in all the states that I hunt.
Plus unless a non resident has a gripe or interest in what is happening and stays informed I doubt that very many would actually watch or call in to make any comments.
Residents will always gripe about the number of tags that are issued to non residents. The ratio could go to 99:1 and the residents would still gripe about the non resident getting that 01% of the tags, it's just the way that it is. A lot of residents figure that all the animals in the state belong to them and that no one else should be able to hunt them. It is that way in all the states that I hunt.
^^ One non-resident called in, and he actually said that he thought non-residents were getting too many tags compared to residence, which seem very odd.
Many of the residents weren’t complaining about the actual number of tags (some were), but rather how Colorado seems to favor nonresidents much more than our surrounding states. For example, WY has no OTC tags and has been reducing nonresident allocations and jacking up license fees. An indirect result of what WY is doing is that a lot of nonresidents who used to go to Wyoming now come to Colorado instead, which further exacerbates the non-resident/over-crowding problem in Colorado.
And of course some of this is about money. It was mentioned many times how much reveune is gerenated from nonresident license sales and how that would have to be made up some other way if nonresident licenses are reduced.
Many of the residents weren’t complaining about the actual number of tags (some were), but rather how Colorado seems to favor nonresidents much more than our surrounding states. For example, WY has no OTC tags and has been reducing nonresident allocations and jacking up license fees. An indirect result of what WY is doing is that a lot of nonresidents who used to go to Wyoming now come to Colorado instead, which further exacerbates the non-resident/over-crowding problem in Colorado.
And of course some of this is about money. It was mentioned many times how much reveune is gerenated from nonresident license sales and how that would have to be made up some other way if nonresident licenses are reduced.
First glance without working any math suggests to me that it would help with point creep. At minimum it would for a while, the only bummer would be for the guys who accidentally put in something they don't want as a last choice though. That would be a bummer but would still help achieve the end goal.
mallardsx2
Veteran member
- Jul 8, 2015
- 3,819
- 3,016
Well, they (Residents) just gained a TON of tags from going from 65/35 to 75/25 so I wouldn't stick your lip out and jump up and down too hard.... that's a pretty substantial win for Residents. Going from 65/35 to 75/25 sets me back another two or three years on drawing about every single tag I am looking at. Congratulations on your win.
As far as the 2nd draw, returned tags, re-issue tags going through a 75/25 R/NR process, I feel that's getting pretty greedy....However, I would be ok with that and meet you in the middle by agreeing to a rule that says those who return tags lose ALL of their points when they turn the tag in....You draw it, you lose your points, you hunt it. If you can't hunt, well, sorry, not sorry.