Archery Out West?

[Topgun 30-06]

Top gun, a animal can move just as much at 20 yards as a 100 yards while hunting with archery tackle. The buck I shot last year was at 32 yards, I was shooting 280-290fps with a 463 grain arrow, he had enough time to hear my bow go off, and go just barely quartering away to a steep quartering away angle and move one step. The shot ended up being at least a foot from where I was aiming when I squeezed the release to fire.

Distance doesn't make them move faster or slower, but rather how fast the projectile can get there before it will not hit the vitals does and I'm not talking a buck jumping the string when he hears the bow. With the speed of most centerfire rifle bullets a shot at 500 yards will get there in less than 1/2 second and still hit vitals even if the animal starts to take a step. Double that distance for a lot of these long range bangers that are shooting at 1000+ yards and that time more than doubles. Even an animal the size of a bull elk can move almost a bodies length in that time and the bullet will be in the paunch or butt, rather than in the heart/lung vital area. This long range stuff IMHO, regardless of what you're shooting, is too chancy and not what ethical hunting that I grew up with is all about. That's not even taking wind and other elements into consideration when making the shot. I guess IMO after 60 years in the field, all this long range shooting and newfangled gadgets are gradually taking away the hunting aspect of the sport that I grew up with and making it more just shooting. Please bear with me as an old timer on stuff like this in that of the many many animals I've taken in the course of that 60 years I've never lost one and a big part of the reason was staying within the design of the equipment I used for each of those animals.

 

[AzCamoLife]

The friend that took this shot routinely practices at 150 yards and is very comfortable shooting that distance. The deer was very calm and just standing broadside. It is definitely a situational thing. In my opinion he read it great. Deer took a few steps and dropped. Would I take that shot?? No, because I am not comfortable at that distance. I would love to get that proficient with my shooting. Why not enhance your archery shooting skills and progress? Everyone has their limits, but you don't know them until you reach them. To each their own though.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

134 yards?? I hope the deer didn't walk 2 steps in the 2 seconds it would take the arrow to get there.

Exactly! This kind of stuff on a living, breathing animal is absolute BS! PS: Nobody is going to tell me that they can watch an animal and know if it's going to move or not move either. This long range garbage, and that's exactly what it is, is taking all of the hunting out of the sport and just making it plain shooting with no respect for the animal IMHO! If you want to shoot a bow at 100+ yards or a rifle at 1000+ yards, then go right ahead, but keep it on a paper target and not an animal. We've got enough people targeting our way of life as it is and there is no reason to give anyone more reasons to be against us.

 

[Hilltop]

For those interested in comparing- I took two very average setups and compared them. I will compare a 30-06 with a 180 grain core-lock factory load (2700 fps) to a bow shooting 270 fps with a 390 grain arrow. It takes .70 seconds for the bullet to travel 500 yards. It takes the arrow .70 seconds to travel 56 yards. I used averages for the arrow weight and deceleration and I used time of travel equation for the bullet travel time.

My current bow shoots 321fps with my hunting setup with a 403 grain arrow. My arrow will reach approximately 67 yards in .7 seconds. My rifle shoots a 165 grain bullet at 2910 feet per second so I can reach 550 yards or so in the .7 seconds.

Most people view archery like it was 20 or 30 years ago but the advances in technology have massively improved the modern bows performance. I firmly believe that under the right conditions shots with my rifle at 500 yards or my bow at 65 yards are ethical. I believe that ethics come into play when hunters act irresponsibly in many ways. Taking questionable shots is definitely one of those ways, but what a questionable shot is to one person may not be to another. I can't read animals minds but I believe I can accurately judge situations and make good shot decisions. I have harvested over 100 big game animals with a bow- most deer in Nebraska. Whitetails have a tendency to "jump the string" more than any other animal. Learning when they likely will or will not is the difference between success at any distance. Can the next guy judge that? I have no idea but I believe I can...

 

[micropterus79]

After sifting through these newer posts, just for my own inexperienced self, and after working at 40 and 50 shots over the last few days, I have decided that 30 is the all out maximum range for me and 20 would be better (whether I am hunting here in AZ or anywhere else). The thrill of the hunt for me would primarily be the stalk and the shot is secondary.

There are a lot of factors that were mentioned in these posts referring to each unique situation that I really need to be thinking about that are probably more important than distance. The bottom line I am getting is that under the right circumstances a 10 yd shot could be just as difficult as a 30 yd shot, out West or anywhere else in the world.

Thanks again to Husky for starting this thread and all the great input from everyone else, I have learned much and have a lot to ponder between now and August 22.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

For those interested in comparing- I took two very average setups and compared them. I will compare a 30-06 with a 180 grain core-lock factory load (2700 fps) to a bow shooting 270 fps with a 390 grain arrow. It takes .70 seconds for the bullet to travel 500 yards. It takes the arrow .70 seconds to travel 56 yards. I used averages for the arrow weight and deceleration and I used time of travel equation for the bullet travel time.

My current bow shoots 321fps with my hunting setup with a 403 grain arrow. My arrow will reach approximately 67 yards in .7 seconds. My rifle shoots a 165 grain bullet at 2910 feet per second so I can reach 550 yards or so in the .7 seconds.

Most people view archery like it was 20 or 30 years ago but the advances in technology have massively improved the modern bows performance. I firmly believe that under the right conditions shots with my rifle at 500 yards or my bow at 65 yards are ethical. I believe that ethics come into play when hunters act irresponsibly in many ways. Taking questionable shots is definitely one of those ways, but what a questionable shot is to one person may not be to another. I can't read animals minds but I believe I can accurately judge situations and make good shot decisions. I have harvested over 100 big game animals with a bow- most deer in Nebraska. Whitetails have a tendency to "jump the string" more than any other animal. Learning when they likely will or will not is the difference between success at any distance. Can the next guy judge that? I have no idea but I believe I can...

I would not have a problem with anyone that has practiced and is accomplished with either bow or rifle at the distances you have mentioned, but that's a far cry from 134 yards with a bow and 1000+ yards that I keep reading about that guys are attempting every season. If everyone was as good at their craft as you appear to be, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. Have a great season!

 

[wapiti66]

My distance is for the most part decided before I leave the house. I have my best case scenario distance- no wind, calm animal, broadside or slightly quartering away shot and that is decided on by how well I have been shooting/practicing and am +95% confident in hitting the kill zone. As conditions change- wind, tight angles, etc...my max distance drops. One day/opportunity my range may be 65 yards. The next day the wind may be blowing and a different scenario, making my max range 35 yards.

As you practice take note of how tight your groups are at different distances, then keep moving back to see where you start getting "flyers" which would mean a gut shot, etc. When you have basically eliminated all flyers from a distance during practice, then I feel confident in moving my effective range back (10 yards at a time), but not until then. By eliminated I would say that if you haven't had a flyer at say 30 yards for your last 100 shots or more at that distance....obviously you don't get this in one session, keep a running total in your head or even on paper. A flyer to me is 6 or more inches off.

 

[Work2hunt]

My distance is for the most part decided before I leave the house. I have my best case scenario distance- no wind, calm animal, broadside or slightly quartering away shot and that is decided on by how well I have been shooting/practicing and am +95% confident in hitting the kill zone. As conditions change- wind, tight angles, etc...my max distance drops. One day/opportunity my range may be 65 yards. The next day the wind may be blowing and a different scenario, making my max range 35 yards.

As you practice take note of how tight your groups are at different distances, then keep moving back to see where you start getting "flyers" which would mean a gut shot, etc. When you have basically eliminated all flyers from a distance during practice, then I feel confident in moving my effective range back (10 yards at a time), but not until then. By eliminated I would say that if you haven't had a flyer at say 30 yards for your last 100 shots or more at that distance....obviously you don't get this in one session, keep a running total in your head or even on paper. A flyer to me is 6 or more inches off.

I pretty much am the same way and my max range is flexible given current weather conditions and how I have been shooting. I typically use a 4 inch ring as my guide. If I am not keeping 95%+ in that circle then I'm not happy and I only feel confident shooting an animal at a given distance when I can achieve 95%+ in a 4 inch circle.

 

[Colorado T]

Wow, this has been a very interesting read. I do believe that everyone is different and everyone has a different comfort level. However, I have to agree for the most part with TopGun regarding the longer distances. Yes, the same thing can happen at the shorter distances with animals moving or wind conditions but the margin of error is so much greater at the longer distances that I just don't believe anyone can feel absolutely confident that nothing can happen at 134 yards. I have seen a few shots deflected by branches that the shooter didn't see at 30 yards. Just to many variables when your talking exceeding 100 yards.

 

[dhershberger]

Gonna keep my post short and sweet. In the past I was not as good of an archer so I limited my shooting on animals to 50 yds or less. I have improved tremendously since last year so I now feel comfortable shooting at an animal 60 yds or less with the right situation and conditions. My advice is to practice, practice, practice. Make that perfect shot second nature.

 

[wapiti66]

I pretty much am the same way and my max range is flexible given current weather conditions and how I have been shooting. I typically use a 4 inch ring as my guide. If I am not keeping 95%+ in that circle then I'm not happy and I only feel confident shooting an animal at a given distance when I can achieve 95%+ in a 4 inch circle.

I agree....I too use a 4 inch circle before I feel any satisfaction or confidence at shooting an animal at that same distance, it must be 4" to set my effective hunting range. I'm calling a flyer something 6" or more, and if I experience any of these at said distance (right now is 80) then that is not in my hunting range, only my practice range. Im confident to 60 yards right now, where in shooting dozens of arrows, over several sessions, I will not miss by more than 6" and +95% will fall into that 4" circle. I like to use 80 as a reference to how "well" I am currently shooting.

 

[tdcour]

I'm in agreement with pretty much everyone on here. I will have a different range than others and it will change depending on the situation. I would also caution you that just because you can punch paper doesn't mean you can kill an animal. When you get up to an animal for the first time, speaking from experience, you have to be mentally prepared to not completely forget everything you have been practicing. I shoot out to 100 every time I shoot even if it is windy. Does this mean I have to look for arrows? You bet, but it also lets me know what my arrow will do during certain situations. It also lets me find out what my range should be when I encounter those situations in the field and not just say... "Well I think I'll take 20 yards off or so because of the wind." If I know how far my arrow will move, why not still take the shot if you have done it before? You see, the thing about archery is that what your broadhead hits is what counts. You don't have the reload capacity or bullet shock like a rifle to get another one in the animal as fast, and the animal may be way out past your comfortable range for a second shot if you were pushing the limits to begin with. Lastly, penetration is what really makes me balk at shooting long distances at animals. A shift of the leg puts your arrow in the shoulder, glances off a rib, or some other scenario. I lost a buck I shot last year because of this very thing. I was in my comfort zone, but just before I released the arrow, he moved his front leg back and I hit his shoulder. If you want to feel like crap, watch an animal run away from you towards private ground with your arrow in it knowing you may never find that animal.

 

[Fink]

Top gun, a animal can move just as much at 20 yards as a 100 yards while hunting with archery tackle.

I think I have to disagree with this. With archery tackle, an animal can move a minimum of 5 times farther at 100 yards, as it can at 20. And that's assuming your arrow is traveling at the same speed after 20 yards as it was from 0-20, which it's not.

 

[velvetfvr]

I think I have to disagree with this. With archery tackle, an animal can move a minimum of 5 times farther at 100 yards, as it can at 20. And that's assuming your arrow is traveling at the same speed after 20 yards as it was from 0-20, which it's not.

Fink, when shooting an animal at long range for archery, they are generally more relaxed. But a animal can turn a heart shot into a hindquarters shot at 20 yards. You can't say an animal will always move more at long range, because that is not true.

 

[BOHNTR]

Wow, some mythical posts here for sure.

To the original poster; long distance shooting is not necessary out West to be successful. In fact, it lends to a higher percentage of wounding, IMO. Learning how to stalk and get close is what it's all about. Out of all of the deer I've arrowed over the years (100+) the majority were arrowed at less than 40 yards.......and only one in the 60 yard range. That includes the Sonoran Desert environments.