Meat hunting vs. Trophy hunting

[Montana]

You think exceeding the holding capacity is a healthy herd? I don't think you're good on game management. Think about it.

Try again... read my post one more time..

 

[Montana]

BTW.. I have no desire to argue nor personally attack anyone's opinion. I was just sharing mine.

Hunters arguing amongst hunters is about as foolish as it gets.

Think about it.

 

[Ikeepitcold]

No reason to turn this thread bad fellas. Please do not attack anyone for their opinions we all have the rite to them. Thanks and let's keep this going with respect to all. Thanks

 

[Musket Man]

I like to see lots of animals but I dont think exceding the holding capacity is a good thing. An area can only feed so many and when there are more then the area can support the herd becomes unproductive, fawn recruitment is low, ect. It all needs to stay balanced to have a healthy herd.

 

[Montana]

I like to see lots of animals but I dont think exceding the holding capacity is a good thing. An area can only feed so many and when there are more then the area can support the herd becomes unproductive, fawn recruitment is low, ect. It all needs to stay balanced to have a healthy herd.

I agree.. I obviously was not very clear in making my point Time for me to let this one go..

 

[ando_31]

Trophy hunting is like anything else, you can take it too far as indicated by our Wisconsin friends. To use hunting as a serious competition is wrong and no one should ever make fun of a child for shooting whatever it is they are excited about.

I think most of us public land hunters get along so well because we don't have land that we can post up tight and "grow" deer. We hunt truly free roaming and intelligent animals of which everyone has a fair chance at. I have no problem if people are hunting does, bucks, trophies, or fawns. If someone wants to shoot a doe or small buck then I look at it as one less hunter to contend with the rest of the season. If a hunter is out there looking for a big deer, then I know some smaller deer will get passed by and I might have a chance at those same deer years down the road. I'm a trophy hunter, but not like those Wisconsin hunyuks referred to by the thread starter.

 

[Old Hunter]

I agree.. I obviously was not very clear in making my point Time for me to let this one go..

It seems more than me took your post wrong. So, what did you mean by just hunting trophy animals, and herd management?


btw..I never thought we were arguing, but having a discussion. Some never seem to catch onto that.

 

[Ilovethewest]

I think most guys on here are of the similar mind. I know that I mostly hunt for mature deer. However, I have taken smaller, and don't base a hunt solely on whether I shoot a trophy. The hunt itself is why I go out hunting. Its why I spend money buying equipment, spend time planning, looking at google earth / maps...........it is all part of the hunt. The killing is just the final act. the cherry on top. and frankly, the sad part. I never "enjoy" killing in the sense most people "enjoy" things. Its a different kind of enjoyment. Its not the same as I "enjoy playing basketball" or I "enjoy a TV show" or "enjoy a good meal"...........its different. I cant exactly explain it.

But I have a story for you that show the difference b/w "that trophy hunter" and myself (not singling out anyone, just a certain type of trophy hunter).

I shot the buck above (around 120" 10 pt) when I was 16 yo. It was my 2nd whitetail ever. I was hunting a state park / public land that you had to draw a tag for in Wisconsin. It is now open to anyone, and that place is ruined, but that's another story! The rest of my family was hunting a private land that borders this state park. My family had hunted this property for 30+ years, we would spend time outside of hunting with the family....fishing, thanksgiving, stopping for visits, remodeling their kitchen and ect. The son of the property owner never hunted until we got him into hunting. as time went by, he became more and more obsessed with "the big buck" craze. he eventually "took over" and enrolled the land in QDM. he refused to let anyone shoot does or any bucks not "trophy" sized....and that included kids just starting out hunting like me. So I opted to apply for the state park tag and drew, after 3 years of passing bucks and does without harvesting a deer on his property I drew the state park tag and shot this deer on that was about a mile as the crow flies from the private land. When I got the deer back to their farm where we stayed, all the son said was "that buck wouldn't be big enough here" and promptly told everyone in our party that if one of us "shot a small deer like this" we would all be kicked off. We shot a 160" and 140" buck over the next 2 years, and In 3 years he refused us hunting anymore. Traditions lost. friendships lost. all b/c of the big buck craze. Not to mention, hurt and disappoint that I felt after being excited about my deer, and to have those excited feelings dashed.

and I have seen or heard of many similar stories like mine. friends becoming enemies. neighbors fighting. all in the name of "trophy hunting"..................so yes, I am a bit jaded. That being said, I still try to shoot mature deer, and enjoy doing so. I don't get tons of excitement from shooting does or small bucks. So I am not sure what I am. But I know I am not like the guy in my story above. and to this day, he considers himself a "trophy" hunter.

P.S - yes I am bitter! LOL

 

[Old Hunter]

There's one way for a hunter to know if they're a trophy hunter. Just in case they're confused on the question.

Do you save points? Even though i've shot what many would call a trophy. I've never saved a point. I've built up some points by failing in the draw, but i've never bought a point for the sake of building them up to hunt a trophy unit.

 

[Musket Man]

I dont see how saving points necessarily makes you a trophy hunter. I am building points in several states right now. I do hope to get a big buck when I do draw but that is not the only reason. I look for good units I can draw with 3-5 points so I can have a better hunt with less pressure, better access, ect. On years I dont draw (like this year) I hunt units with leftover tags or OTC so I always have someplace to hunt.

 

[Old Hunter]

Generally, when someone saves points they're after a trophy animal unit. Meat hunters want to hunt every year.

This isn't black and white, but if you're saving points. Only you know why.

There's nothing wrong with being a trophy hunter. If that's your thing. You don't need to make excuses for it. Come out of the closet, and admit it.

 

[Montana]

It seems more than me took your post wrong. So, what did you mean by just hunting trophy animals, and herd management?
btw..I never thought we were arguing, but having a discussion. Some never seem to catch onto that.

Not sure people read all the posts all the way through/I wasn't very clear.. You mentioned harvesting all mature animals would not be a healthy management process. My statement of "Harvest mature animals" is far from your statement of "kill all the mature animals". It's not that easy. You don't get to harvest all the mature animals. They are very difficult to harvest, thus my statement "harvest opportunity is rare" And if harvest is a rare opportunity then you will not deplete the resource, that means, you will not kill all of the mature animals. True trophy hunters will harvest very few animals (I am not that), I know a guy that has taken 6 deer over 190, 2 of which are over 200. Took him 25 yrs, and ate his tag the other years.

Where I should have separated my thought process was in the next sentence.. If everyone was a trophy hunter then not enough animals would be harvested thus they would exceed the holding capacity, which is a bad thing. I should have also added that I am fully aware of game management and I understand the process very well. Just to add the clarity.

If you feel that "some never seem to catch onto that" you may want to evaluate your choice of words. Because oddly enough I have never had this experience on this forum. Obviously you have if you feel that way. One small tip would be something like not starting a reply with "you need to study up on game management". To be frank, it's rude. But it is true that we can have these conversations like adults and not argue. I do agree with that.

 

[Musket Man]

LOL OH What defines a trophy unit? Im not interested in units that take 10+ points to draw. I just want a quality hunt. If I apply in 3 states in units that take 3-5 points to draw I have a good chance of drawing 1 tag every year or atleast every other year. Last year I found a private ranch to hunt in a unit in WY that I can draw an antelope tag 2nd choice every year. I could hunt deer there too but I didnt draw it 2nd choice although you could easily up untill this year. I hunt somewhere every year no matter what. I think Im kinda in the middle. Im holding out for a B&C animal or nothing but I dont want to go shoot the first legal one I see either. I just want one Im happy with but I do my best to put something in the freezer every year too!

 

[Old Hunter]

Montana...........Ok, so we understand each other. What did you mean when you said this?

"To me... trophy hunting IS the ethical thing to do. Harvest mature animals."


I don't think anybody said it wasn't ethical, but the way you worded it. Does it mean anything else is unethical? Just checking.

When the DOW here wants to get a herd back in control of being too large. It's the doe/cow tags that are increased. Trophy hunters never help out with this problem. They'll continue to hunt trophy's. In a way, the trophy hunters should thank the meat hunters for keeping herds in control.

 

[Old Hunter]

LOL OH What defines a trophy unit? Im not interested in units that take 10+ points to draw. I just want a quality hunt. If I apply in 3 states in units that take 3-5 points to draw I have a good chance of drawing 1 tag every year or atleast every other year. Last year I found a private ranch to hunt in a unit in WY that I can draw an antelope tag 2nd choice every year. I could hunt deer there too but I didnt draw it 2nd choice although you could easily up untill this year. I hunt somewhere every year no matter what. I think Im kinda in the middle. Im holding out for a B&C animal or nothing but I dont want to go shoot the first legal one I see either. I just want one Im happy with but I do my best to put something in the freezer every year too!

Well, units that require more points aren't that way because they have a lot of does/cows.

 

[CrimsonArrow]

One reason for putting in for points besides trophy hunting is to get a higher quality hunt. Being from MN, I don't get to elk hunt every year, so if I put in for points and hunted every 3-4 years in a better unit, it might increase my odds for success. As a non-res bowhunter, I'm all for increasing my odds.

 

[Old Hunter]

Maybe I should have said....saves a lot of points.

 

[Musket Man]

Well, units that require more points aren't that way because they have a lot of does/cows.

LOL! Some units take points to draw doe/cow tags. Some units that take points to draw a buck/bull tag but have left over doe/cow tags. If I use 3 points to draw I buck tag and buy a leftover doe tag am I a trophy hunter or a meat hunter? If I draw a tag that takes 3 points, go kill a trophy antelope after passing on a bunch of bucks, then buy a leftover doe tag for another unit and go kill a doe for the freezer what am I then?

 

[Old Hunter]

I wasn't talking about 2-3 points. I need that to hunt for bulls in my unit. If you save points to hunt unit 201. I'm going to lay a big bet that you're not doing it to hunt for cows.

 

[Musket Man]

Im only applying for deer in CO but OTC elk is another of my back pocket hunts on years when I have the money and dont draw much else 1 of these years I would like to do a muzzle loader elk hunt in CO that I can draw without any points but I havent had the extra money for it yet.