It is quite concerning the animosity one see's so many hunters express towards members of the agricultural community now days. There are forums that members chastise and ridicule farmers and ranchers over' and over. It seems that most of these folks have no idea how difficult making a living off the lad can be. It seems in the past 10 years this attitude has grown with a lot of the younger hunters. It seems it sprouts from envy and jealousy as to what another person has. Most have no idea the day's and nights put in to keeping a family farm or ranch going....all they see are a few "Trophy Ranches" owned by billionaires, they this this is the norm. I see members on one forum run by a tv host even calling for a beef boycott. If it were not for agriculture in this country, our game populations would be no where near what they are today over most the country. Here in Montana, a bill before the legislature to allow landowners elk sponsored elk tags has come about. In my opinion it is way past time to allow landowners some skin in the game. Elk in many areas of Montana have grown in vast numbers. These elk cause many heartaches to farm and ranch family's. Many of these families and friends and family who live outside of Montana and would love the chance to come back and hunt the home place. A landowner should be allowed to who hunts there ground. I know there will be those that say thousands and thousands of elk tags will be sold this way, that is a very generous guess at best. It is just another fear tactic those who are against this bill try to use to the general public. Thankfully, most Montanan's have family and , or friends in agriculture, and no the plight of these family farms!
Why the animosity?
- Thread starter MTHusker
- Start date
some of it probably stems from ranchers/farmers who get payed by gov for crop damages from deer/elk but still won't allow anyone access. I don't hate them, it's their land do do with as they see fit but I have seen some of this in my area and I would at least agree it is difficult to feel any pity for them.
not saying it's right or wrong . it just is.
not saying it's right or wrong . it just is.
Last edited:
Why do they always bury a farmer/rancher with one arm sticking out of the ground. So they can still get their gov't handout...
LCH
Very Active Member
Government handouts aside, I would venture a guess that many public land hunters have had negative interactions with adjoining landowners and/or their employees. I have had a couple ranchers try to buffalo me off of public land.
I know they're certainly not all like that, but personal experiences do shape perception.
I know they're certainly not all like that, but personal experiences do shape perception.
Hilltop
Veteran member
There are a lot of tough situations that the hunting community is facing. I believe almost all are a result of significantly higher demand than there are opportunities. Anytime hunters see additional opportunities lost, there will be a lot that are unhappy.
As to the Montana landowner tags, we need to call this what it is. This is about money. Those tags will bring real money to landowners and give outfitters a way to guarantee tags. As to those who "just want to let friends and family hunt" I call bs in most instances. If a landowner has 5 tags worth 3k each, is he going to give up 15k for a hunting camp for buddies? Not many will, that's for sure.
As to the Montana landowner tags, we need to call this what it is. This is about money. Those tags will bring real money to landowners and give outfitters a way to guarantee tags. As to those who "just want to let friends and family hunt" I call bs in most instances. If a landowner has 5 tags worth 3k each, is he going to give up 15k for a hunting camp for buddies? Not many will, that's for sure.
D_Dubya
Active Member
No doubt there is a tremendous animus on some popular forums towards landowners, ranchers and outfitters. I would venture to guess some of it stems from negative encounters with jerks from those industries, but I would guess that most of it stems from a vastly different viewpoints of those who make a living from the land and those who go out to recreate on the land to get away from where they make a living. That combined with limited resources and a burgeoning urban human population that wants to get outside and be organic and cool like the meat eating guys on TV leads to conflict.
Personally I think some form of landowner incentive is a good idea, but that Montana deal seemed so far over the top it’s almost like they meant to piss off the general hunting public. Also, where you’re from and what you’re used to shapes opinions. Down here where I’m from leasing hunting rights is just a fact of life if you want to hunt you either own land or lease - and leasing can be a serious financial commitment.
I think a landowner voucher system like Colorado’s makes sense, a few tags available and a guy sitting on a couple million dollars worth of land can make a few grand selling a couple tags. And if that makes a difference between him selling a few hundred acres of winter range to be developed into ranchettes or not then I don’t see the downside. I’m sure opinions vary widely...
Personally I think some form of landowner incentive is a good idea, but that Montana deal seemed so far over the top it’s almost like they meant to piss off the general hunting public. Also, where you’re from and what you’re used to shapes opinions. Down here where I’m from leasing hunting rights is just a fact of life if you want to hunt you either own land or lease - and leasing can be a serious financial commitment.
I think a landowner voucher system like Colorado’s makes sense, a few tags available and a guy sitting on a couple million dollars worth of land can make a few grand selling a couple tags. And if that makes a difference between him selling a few hundred acres of winter range to be developed into ranchettes or not then I don’t see the downside. I’m sure opinions vary widely...
My biggest issue is when land owners land lock public land, and then use it as their own extended play ground or worse charge people for access. Public land is crowded enough and locking it up like that just exasperates the issue.
buckbull
Veteran member
- Jun 20, 2011
- 2,167
- 1,354
Ranchers and farmers are already the biggest welfare recipients by a very large margin, why do they need more handouts in the way of game permits?
Ranchers and farmers are able to lease federal lands for pennies on the dollar, why do they need more handouts in the way of game permits?
Ranchers and farmers do not pay sales tax on farming related items in some states, why do they need more handouts in the way of game permits?
Ranchers and farmers received a $23 billion dollar handout last year from the Trump administration, why do they need more handouts in the way of game permits?
We have a small local restaurant in town where alot of the farmers meet for breakfast every morning. They are all driving brand new 3/4 ton diesel crew trucks and then bitch all morning about how broke they are. Its in the farmers blood to bitch about how broke they are.
Ranchers and farmers are able to lease federal lands for pennies on the dollar, why do they need more handouts in the way of game permits?
Ranchers and farmers do not pay sales tax on farming related items in some states, why do they need more handouts in the way of game permits?
Ranchers and farmers received a $23 billion dollar handout last year from the Trump administration, why do they need more handouts in the way of game permits?
We have a small local restaurant in town where alot of the farmers meet for breakfast every morning. They are all driving brand new 3/4 ton diesel crew trucks and then bitch all morning about how broke they are. Its in the farmers blood to bitch about how broke they are.
I grew up in farming country as a kid. Most Farmers and ranchers have a tough time making it unless they get gov't help.
I used to have a lot of places I could hunt, but now it's leased or changed hands. I don't blame them for making extra income.
Some hunters who are given permission don't respect the farmer or ranchers land. They drive places they shouldn't or leave gates open. Sometimes we as hunters are own worst enemy.
I used to have a lot of places I could hunt, but now it's leased or changed hands. I don't blame them for making extra income.
Some hunters who are given permission don't respect the farmer or ranchers land. They drive places they shouldn't or leave gates open. Sometimes we as hunters are own worst enemy.
Last edited:
mallardsx2
Veteran member
- Jul 8, 2015
- 3,903
- 3,216
I grew up working on my neighbors dairy farm. He had about 150 Holstein dairy cows.
He didn't take govt handouts and he struggled his entire life living milk check to milk check.
He was my definition of a farmer and he never took a dime from the govt. Because, in his eyes, that was shameful.
The "farmers" that most people refer to these days are "crop farmers" who play the system have their hands out for GOVT assistance. If you grow your business and it fails, it should be on your shoulders, not the GOVT. Many of them make money from the GOVT by NOT planting. Bet most people didnt know that....
He didn't take govt handouts and he struggled his entire life living milk check to milk check.
He was my definition of a farmer and he never took a dime from the govt. Because, in his eyes, that was shameful.
The "farmers" that most people refer to these days are "crop farmers" who play the system have their hands out for GOVT assistance. If you grow your business and it fails, it should be on your shoulders, not the GOVT. Many of them make money from the GOVT by NOT planting. Bet most people didnt know that....
if the ranchers are hunters they will. there is no limit to what folks will spend for the things they enjoy.
I would certainly agree with that .it explains why farmers/ranchers hate hunters but doesn't delve into why hunters hate them.
you are right ,not all of them take the handouts . maybe not even most . but many of them demand it , same way lowlifes a few years ago demanded their "bama phones".
only takes a few to spoil the whole.
I don't hate them for it but I do hate what they do.
the plain truth is, if you talk with people you won't find many these days that don't approve of gov handouts in some form or another ,so long as those handouts come to their wallets.
with very few exceptions ,humans are hypocrite scum. honestly examin yourselves and most will find this to be true.
who loves the stimulus bribes?? bama phones ? disaster relief??? welfare ????? how many approve of taxing those with no children to build schools??? taxing the rich more because they were better blessed(or just plain worked harder )???? and the list goes on and on!
you know who you are!
Last edited:
Can you please explain this in more detail, I grew up in a farming family, and know many farmers. I'm not sure what you're speaking of when you say many make money from gov by not planting. I don't know a single one who falls into that category.
Realistically, the vast majority of people in this country receive some kind of government aid. It's almost harder to find a person/business who doesn't/hasn't, as the government is so tied into everything.
this is big in idaho . set aside program. there are farmers who get paid every year for setting a portion of their land aside for a year . I personally know many who do this. their attitude is why turn down money some fool offers ??? can't really say I blame them ,though I believe that outlook is a bit shortsighted as those farmers are now the very thing they claim they hate.
I believe it started back in the 80s when we supposedly had a grain surplus and like all gov handouts seem to do .... once started the cash just keeps flowing.
mallardsx2
Veteran member
- Jul 8, 2015
- 3,903
- 3,216
Some light reading for you.....
will.illinois.edu
Farmers take advantage of this and its bullshit.....they are double dipping....They claim that they cant get their corn in the ground, take a handout, then plant beans and take the profit from that when it is harvested.
You can do your own independent research on the topic if you want to see more but know this, they are playing the system and buying new trucks and equipment yearly with all of the incentives....
For the record I saw this first hand all across PA as well. Its not just Illinois....Its all over.
Farmers Receive Record Payments For The Crops They Couldn’t Plant | Illinois Public Media
The U.S. Department of Agriculture has paid out a record $4.24 billion in claims for acres farmers couldn’t plant this year
Farmers take advantage of this and its bullshit.....they are double dipping....They claim that they cant get their corn in the ground, take a handout, then plant beans and take the profit from that when it is harvested.
You can do your own independent research on the topic if you want to see more but know this, they are playing the system and buying new trucks and equipment yearly with all of the incentives....
For the record I saw this first hand all across PA as well. Its not just Illinois....Its all over.
Last edited:
dan maule
Veteran member
I grew around farming my whole life, I know farmers who try to get every cent they can from the government and I know farmers that refuse to take a single dime. I believe a big reason that access to hunt farm land has become so difficult is due to the lack of respect that many hunters have for other peoples property. Examples, a guy asks if he can hunt turkeys, farmer says sure but do NOT drive in my hay fields. Two hours later as the farmer is on his way to work up a field he sees the turkey hunters parked in the middle of his hay field. A group of guys asks if they can deer hunt, farmer says sure shows them the property boundaries and tells them to stay off of the neighbors property. Two days later the farmer gets a call from two of his neighbors pissed off because his hunters are all over their land, this one happened with two different groups of hunters. Hunter asks if he can hunt raccoons in the farmers corn field, farmer says yes, apparently one of the hunters dogs died during the hunt and he left it to rot on the edge of the field right next to the road. These are just a few of the real examples of how hunters are their own worst enemy.
Because of these types of problems the farmer that I am talking about eventually told me that I could hunt all his property if I keep an eye on it for him because he did not have the time nor the energy to deal with the problems created by leaving people hunt his property. We have no right to other peoples property and showing contempt to the land owner is not going to improve access.
Because of these types of problems the farmer that I am talking about eventually told me that I could hunt all his property if I keep an eye on it for him because he did not have the time nor the energy to deal with the problems created by leaving people hunt his property. We have no right to other peoples property and showing contempt to the land owner is not going to improve access.
mallardsx2
Veteran member
- Jul 8, 2015
- 3,903
- 3,216
And for the record I dont hate farmers. I like farmers. They have a vital role in our society.
I dislike that people are always relying on GOVT in general. In a true capitalistic society you should either sink or swim. Not get thrown a life jacket every time the water gets above your waistline...That would be socialism in my opinion.
I want to hunt for a living, if I cant make enough money or draw enough tags to hunt for a living should the govt step in and help me? I think not.
If you want to "crop farm" for a living on the other hand.....now thats a different story.
I dislike that people are always relying on GOVT in general. In a true capitalistic society you should either sink or swim. Not get thrown a life jacket every time the water gets above your waistline...That would be socialism in my opinion.
I want to hunt for a living, if I cant make enough money or draw enough tags to hunt for a living should the govt step in and help me? I think not.
If you want to "crop farm" for a living on the other hand.....now thats a different story.
Last edited: