Tag/point system

Zim · Apr 1, 2016

Sam,
I have ~20 points in most western states. The age of spending a lifetime collecting points for the premier quality units is over. States have figured out us invested hunters are easy prey for point cheapening. They do this via many rule changes after you buy your points: They steal the best tags for auction or raffle; They reduce NR quotas; They convert more tags to outfitter welfare; hell one state sells folks 10 point packages for $55 annually.......all you want. The list goes on.

It's really best to just target mid tier units taking 3-5 points at the most. These produce the best return on investment.

http://kutv.com/news/local/allegations-of-corruption-surround-utah-hungtin-and-conservation-expo
https://www.cascwild.org/don-peay-the-man-who-would-be-king-baron/
http://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/conservationist/2012/03/group-founder-declares-north-american-hunting-model-“socialism”
http://www.standard.net/Recreation/2016/02/10/Transparency-still-debated-around-2016-Western-Hunting-and-Conservation-Expo.html
http://www.mtbullypulpit.org/2012/06/pox-on-fox.html
http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2013/03/19/did-don-peays-organization-essentially-buy-utah-division-of-wildlife/
http://westernvaluesproject.org/taxpayer-dollars-down-the-drain-utah-group-favors-privatized-hunting-energy-industry-over-hunters-anglers/
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/us/auctions-introduce-market-forces-to-conservation-but-hunters-cry-foul.html?smid=pl-share&_r=2
http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/columnists/group-seeking-privatized-wildlife-spreading-misinformation/article_dfb5fe10-8570-11e1-99d1-0019bb2963f4.html
https://howlingforjustice.wordpress.com/2013/03/03/urgent-sfw-founder-requests-taxpayer-money-to-lobby-for-wolf-delisting/
http://www.themudflats.net/archives/25891
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arizona-Sportsmen-Against-Hb-2072/274702462612489

Alabama · Apr 1, 2016

Yes you can buy over the counter tags. In most states you can just apply for the point or apply for the tag and if you're not drawn you will receive a point. Are you looking to hunt multiple times or just once?

Limited quota tags will give you the best experience as there is a lot of pressure on OTC tags. All the states have different rules: some have preference points (where the person with the highest points gets the tag), some have bonus points (it's like extra chances to be drawn with every point) some have straight up random draws with no points and there are states that combine 2 or more of these together. It's crazy to be honest.

If you are looking to hunt a few times: a Montana general tag is probably the best otc tag in the states and you could learn the area with a few hunts. Wyoming has a general tag that is otc for residents and can be drawn by non-residents for only a couple points, that seems to be a highly desired tag and great bulls are killed every year. Idaho, Colorado and Utah offer otc tags but there will be considerable hunting pressure from the info I've gathered.

If you're looking to hunt only once: buy the points and when you have enough, go on a limited entry hunt. Colorado and Wyoming would be my top choices. You could also apply for Idaho and New Mexico because of no point system and you could draw your 1st year applying.

RICMIC · Apr 1, 2016

There is so much information out there that you can quickly become overwhelmed. Zim gave you links to enough to keep you reading through next winter. As a start, be sure to subscribe to both Eastmans Hunting Journal and Bowhunting Journal; either the print or digital version. I agree that the mid-tier point units (3-5) give you great options without stringing you along with false hope. Stay involved on this forum, and besides learning the west, you will likely link up with someone stateside who had good inside knowledge who you could do a hunt with. You can buy pts. in one year, but they can not be used that year (true in all states). You can still buy points in Colorado until April 5th. Wyoming is simple; just buy points. in Sept., $50-elk, $40-deer, $30-antelope.
Buying an over-the-counter (OTC) tag is always an option, but you better have done some research and have some good info on where to hunt or you will likely be disappointed. By partnering with someone else, you can avoid the hassle of importing rifles, have some inside knowledge/experience, and have a place to deal with the critter after a harvest. Good luck.

Zim · Apr 1, 2016

BTW - Yes, CO & WY are by far the most nonresident friendly, have the largest NR quotas, and best value per point for the first 5 years..........as of today. Of course all that could change if just one politician gets greased enough.

Elkhunter96 · Apr 1, 2016

I disagree on CO if you are talking about Trophy tags. CO is the best OTC state and has a few units you can draw that are ok for 0-5 points. Their best units will never be reached starting from scratch as a non resident.

For trophy hunting and if you are not chasing the Top unit in the state, I would apply to WY, Utah and Nevada. But as others have said, if you are simply chasing the very top rated units by various magazines, then the point systems are hard to start from scratch on. If you are ok building points and looking for those middle tier units, I think there is value in them and can provide a great hunt 5-20 years down the road.

Finsandtines · Apr 1, 2016

For what it's worth I started accumulating points just last year at 42. I used this site as a huge resource and also the state websites to learn a little to get started. After a lot of reading and research I settled on Wyoming and Colorado. I will have 2 points for deer and elk in each state after this year and plan to use them in Colorado first. My thought is to use 2-4 points every year for different species and do OTC when I don't cash in. For me, anything I am able to kill with my bow is a trophy. It all depends what you are after. To each their own..... As stated those "trophy" units/hunts will not be attainable and I have concluded there are a ton of good hunts that are available without the wait and investment. I may not be here in 10-15 years so I am of the mindset to go as often as I can and savor every minute.

Of course there is always the option of going with an outfitter if you want to get your feet wet and hunt this year. There are some pretty decent hunts available without breaking the bank.

Slugz · Apr 1, 2016

Elkhunter96 said:
I disagree on CO if you are talking about Trophy tags. CO is the best OTC state and has a few units you can draw that are ok for 0-5 points. Their best units will never be reached starting from scratch as a non resident.

For trophy hunting and if you are not chasing the Top unit in the state, I would apply to WY, Utah and Nevada. But as others have said, if you are simply chasing the very top rated units by various magazines, then the point systems are hard to start from scratch on. If you are ok building points and looking for those middle tier units, I think there is value in them and can provide a great hunt 5-20 years down the road.

Depends on your definition of trophy...and best units....most if not all " Trophy" designated units in Colorado are really not fun hunts or very challenging IMO 2/201 for example.

There are plenty of mid tier units that hold 320-340 bulls if you are horn hunting.....all goes back to how hard or easy you want to hunt. Those same areas, you can get into every other year with 1-3 points at times.

packmule · Apr 1, 2016

Getting a tag is the cheap part of your equation. I'd look at points, LO tags, etc.

Zim · Apr 1, 2016

Elkhunter96 said:
I disagree on CO if you are talking about Trophy tags. CO is the best OTC state and has a few units you can draw that are ok for 0-5 points. Their best units will never be reached starting from scratch as a non resident.

For trophy hunting and if you are not chasing the Top unit in the state, I would apply to WY, Utah and Nevada. But as others have said, if you are simply chasing the very top rated units by various magazines, then the point systems are hard to start from scratch on. If you are ok building points and looking for those middle tier units, I think there is value in them and can provide a great hunt 5-20 years down the road.

Nowhere in his post did the OP specify "trophy". He asked about points. My answer is geared more towards getting a good return on investment for a newbie entering on the ground floor. In my opinion points in WY & CO have the best value for the time and money invested. Under the current structures I just wouldn't bother start from zero in UT, NV, OR & maybe even AZ with their new system. Just too late in the game.

Elkhunter96 · Apr 1, 2016

That's fine, I have a different opinion on many of the states in the West and on building points in general. But, I agree with you on those states if you are simply applying for the top units as listed by Eastmans, HF, etc.

I also think there is plenty of quality hunts in AZ, UT, NZ etc., if you look for options other than the peak of the rut or early rifle tag. Some of the best hunts I have ever been on have been mid tier units. I have helped family/friends on the some top tier unit hunts and while they are great hunts and lots of fun, I wouldn't ever tell someone to build points for them. I would rather hunt more than once than wait for a once in a life time tag that may never come. Again, just my opinion and 0.02

JimP · Apr 1, 2016

It should be noted that in Utah to shoot a branch antlered bull you are going to have to draw a tag through the draw. Or hunt one of the few any bull units. Utah's OTC bull elk are for spikes in the majority of the units with a few any bull units that can be hard to hunt.

If I was the OP and wanted to hunt elk in Colorado or Utah I would look into the Ranching for Wildlife program in Colorado or the CWMU program in Utah. They are both set up for the non resident to hire a guide with a tag and go hunting on the ranches property.

packmule · Apr 1, 2016

Didn't think NRs were eligible for RFW.

Zim · Apr 1, 2016

Elkhunter96 said:
That's fine, I have a different opinion on many of the states in the West and on building points in general. But, I agree with you on those states if you are simply applying for the top units as listed by Eastmans, HF, etc.

I also think there is plenty of quality hunts in AZ, UT, NZ etc., if you look for options other than the peak of the rut or early rifle tag. Some of the best hunts I have ever been on have been mid tier units. I have helped family/friends on the some top tier unit hunts and while they are great hunts and lots of fun, I wouldn't ever tell someone to build points for them. I would rather hunt more than once than wait for a once in a life time tag that may never come. Again, just my opinion and 0.02

I just would not recommend UT, NV & OR for even mid-teir units, because there basically are none in UT & OR, and with thousands of squared point holders above him, a mid-tier in NV is unrealistic. GoHunt came out with the real draw odds for Nevada this year. They are dismal. Even with my 17 squared points I've been unable to draw any of my 5 mid-tier hunt choices. Of course they could "change" the system to screw us high point holders down the road. Actually that's a likelihood if these real odds get some press. Arizona does have some realistic mid-tier units and that could be a possibility for a newbie.

Slugz · Apr 1, 2016

packmule said:
Didn't think NRs were eligible for RFW.

True...Page 14 top right 2016 Big Game Brochure

JimP · Apr 1, 2016

packmule said:
Didn't think NRs were eligible for RFW.

Slugz said:
True...Page 14 top right 2016 Big Game Brochure

True they are not eligible for the the ranching for wildlife draws but they can contact the ranches and outfitters on that ranch for a hunt.

Tag/point system

Member

Very Active Member

Member

Veteran member

Veteran member

Very Active Member

Active Member

Very Active Member

Veteran member

Veteran member

Very Active Member

Active Member

Administrator

Veteran member

Very Active Member

Veteran member

Member

Member

Member

Administrator