WY 90/10 Deer/Elk/Antelope Question

Rich M

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Oct 16, 2012
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Rokslide has a thread that basically says elk/deer/antelope 90/10 possible in 2024.

"On Tuesday Morning, Dr. Shaffer presented the outline of a "Grand Compromise" his subcommittee would work on and brink back to the full WWTF at the June 8-9 meeting:
  • Eliminate the current 7,250 cap on nonresident elk tags and go to regional management of elk for nonresident hunters similar to how deer are managed now.
  • 50% Special Outfitter Draw - so 50% of all nonresident limited quota deer, elk and antelope tags, and 50% of elk nonresident general tags would only be available to nonresident hunters who had committed to use an outfitter.
  • 90/10 tag allocation for all deer, elk and antelope units with a 30% or less resident hunter draw odds.
  • 3-year wait period for resident hunters who draw a high demand limited quota tag - with "high demand" being 30% or less draw odds. Hunters would be able to purchase general tags during the wait period and/or apply for limited quota tags in hunt areas that were not "high demand" in terms of draw odds (31% or greater odds).
  • 24-hour resident hunter head start for leftover tags.
  • Increase nonresident tag prices across the board to offset any budget shortfalls caused by the above changes."
Then someone indicated that NRs would be standing in line for 5% of the tags in "high demand" areas (1/2 of of 10% due to the other half going to outfitters) and 10% in "not high demand" areas (same NR vs outfitter split) - and the NRs will be paying more to do it.

Trying to think of something witty to say but all can come up with is "That's gonna leave a mark".

Anyhow, is this true?
 

Rich M

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Oct 16, 2012
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The outfitters pay the big land owners and the big landowners have clout and like the checks they get.

the prospect of 90/10 taking place in 2024 is likewow.
 
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Hilltop

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Feb 25, 2014
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Eastern Nebraska
Rokslide has a thread that basically says elk/deer/antelope 90/10 possible in 2024.

"On Tuesday Morning, Dr. Shaffer presented the outline of a "Grand Compromise" his subcommittee would work on and brink back to the full WWTF at the June 8-9 meeting:
  • Eliminate the current 7,250 cap on nonresident elk tags and go to regional management of elk for nonresident hunters similar to how deer are managed now.
  • 50% Special Outfitter Draw - so 50% of all nonresident limited quota deer, elk and antelope tags, and 50% of elk nonresident general tags would only be available to nonresident hunters who had committed to use an outfitter.
  • 90/10 tag allocation for all deer, elk and antelope units with a 30% or less resident hunter draw odds.
  • 3-year wait period for resident hunters who draw a high demand limited quota tag - with "high demand" being 30% or less draw odds. Hunters would be able to purchase general tags during the wait period and/or apply for limited quota tags in hunt areas that were not "high demand" in terms of draw odds (31% or greater odds).
  • 24-hour resident hunter head start for leftover tags.
  • Increase nonresident tag prices across the board to offset any budget shortfalls caused by the above changes."
Then someone indicated that NRs would be standing in line for 5% of the tags in "high demand" areas (1/2 of of 10% due to the other half going to outfitters) and 10% in "not high demand" areas (same NR vs outfitter split) - and the NRs will be paying more to do it.

Trying to think of something witty to say but all can come up with is "That's gonna leave a mark".

Anyhow, is this true?
It's true that it is being proposed. I believe there will be quite a bit of opposition from residents due to the outfitter welfare portion. However, the state is in a no win situation in that someone will be upset no matter what they do. The residents want straight 90/10 with no outfitter welfare. The landowners and outfitters obviously want what is being proposed. The non-residents will be upset either way but the reality is we don't have much of a voice at that table. The current huge demand for historically low point tags positions the state to do whatever they want regarding non residents right now. They can double the prices and still sell the tags... Many will scoff at that but I personally believe it's a reality.
 

Colorado Cowboy

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It's true that it is being proposed. I believe there will be quite a bit of opposition from residents due to the outfitter welfare portion. However, the state is in a no win situation in that someone will be upset no matter what they do. The residents want straight 90/10 with no outfitter welfare. The landowners and outfitters obviously want what is being proposed. The non-residents will be upset either way but the reality is we don't have much of a voice at that table. The current huge demand for historically low point tags positions the state to do whatever they want regarding non residents right now. They can double the prices and still sell the tags... Many will scoff at that but I personally believe it's a reality.
You are 100% correct. Nonresidents will take whatever is dished out. The outfitter "welfare" is pretty obnoxious, but not unexpected as they benefit from the state's rule about nonresident hunters needing an outfitter to hunt wilderness areas.
 
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Yell Co AR Hunter

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Dec 10, 2015
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Yell County Arkansas
That looks like a great way to increase the odds of residents drawing a tag. The best part is they plan to still do it on the backs (pocket book) of the non-resident. Just increase non-resident price to off set the decrease in number of non-resident tags. Only problem I see is just how long will they be able to cash in on the current point system. Any way it goes, I see in the not so distant future, residents are going to have to pony up big dollars for their tags. I can already see the effect. Anyone notice the decrease in activity on sites like this? I feel a direct result of hunters moving on to other things. Sure a few will spend their last dollar to hunt, but not good for the future of hunting.
 

Yell Co AR Hunter

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Dec 10, 2015
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Yell County Arkansas
You are 100% correct. Nonresidents will take whatever is dished out. The outfitter "welfare" is pretty obnoxious, but not unexpected as they benefit from the state's rule about nonresident hunters needing and outfitter to hunt wilderness areas.
Yes this already limits a vast majority of hunting public land. And just why is a resident more capable than a non-resident to hunt wilderness? That was just a move to limit non-resident hunting.
 

Hilltop

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Feb 25, 2014
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Yes this already limits a vast majority of hunting public land. And just why is a resident more capable than a non-resident to hunt wilderness? That was just a move to limit non-resident hunting.
Just something to consider - The wilderness rule is obvious outfitter welfare in todays world but, back when this rule was implemented, GPS units weren't available. It was pretty rare to see a non-resident very far into the back country when I started hunting. Lost hunters were also a lot more common.
 

Rich M

Very Active Member
Oct 16, 2012
572
368
I can already see the effect. Anyone notice the decrease in activity on sites like this? I feel a direct result of hunters moving on to other things. Sure a few will spend their last dollar to hunt, but not good for the future of hunting.
It will have a ripple effect. Some guys will go whole hog, but others will not. The price increase for NR and none for R should cause some moral outrage.

I can see a decline in NR hunters after a few years. That $326 antelope tag will go up, let's say $425 and the $614 special will go up to $850. Not huge differences but death by 1,000 cuts. Being the only game in town, Outfitters will increase their rates too. My $3K 2023 antelope hunt will easily go to $4K (33% increase) with the tag limitations. So the $3,350 hunt (minus tips and travel and whatever) turns into a $4,850 hunt (minus tips and travel and whatever). $1,500 increase. All guesswork here. Some guys will pay it, the folks who need to pack 4 or 5 guys into a truck to do an out of state hunt won't be going.

I do know that I will be moving on. Did WY antelope in 2017, CO mule deer in 2019, planning for WY antelope in 2023 w outfitter. Hunting is definitely getting harder to go & do. Preference points, tag restrictions, needing to plan years out, etc...

This is the same in my home state of FL - I'm on a 3 year rotation for tags to hunt a 3-day weekend an hour from home - there is no other way for me to hunt more frequently less than 2 hours from home. Some day it is gonna go to 4 years per hunt. How is that gonna be worth it? We do get some duck hunting in but that's the same limited draw kind of thing or packing 10 hunters into an area better suited for 3.

Hunting is in it's death spiral...
 
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dan maule

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Jan 3, 2015
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The expense is one thing, but not believing that you will ever draw a tag and the inability to plan for a hunt, may cause many like myself to just focus on their home state. It really sucks, with hunter numbers going up and deer and antelope numbers going down, I can’t blame the folks in Wyoming for wanting the 90/10.
 
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Yell Co AR Hunter

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Dec 10, 2015
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Yell County Arkansas
I guess I am just glad I got to do what little hunting out West I have. I am on an exit plan now. Plan to hunt elk once, antelope and deer one more time then I am out. I will buy no more points after that.
 

Colorado Cowboy

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I believe that if 50% of the NR tags go to outfitters, they will not sell 100% of them for outfitted/guided hunts. I think they will have to sell some of them like tresspass fee hunts. Just my take.
 

tim

Veteran member
Jun 4, 2011
2,274
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north idaho
This is on my desk and this thread made me think of it.

CHANGE HAPPENS
they keep moving the cheese

ANTICIPATE CHANGE
get ready for the cheese to move

MONITOR CHANGE
smell the cheese often, so you know when it is getting old

ADAPT TO CHANGE QUICKLY
the quicker you let go of the old cheese, the sooner you can enjoy new cheese

CHANGE
move with the cheese

ENJOY CHANGE!
savor the adventure and the taste of new cheese

BE READY TO QUICKLY CHANGE AGAIN AND AGAIN
they keep moving the cheese


hunting is changing and unless you live in the intermountain states, you can not understand the negative change that has occured with all the people moving into us. I have adapted my business to make lots of money off of the people moving in, but quality of life is no where where it was. The exact same thing is happening in the hunting world. Be grateful the western states are allowing non residents. Remeber the pittman robertson act pays for alot of the states game monies.
 
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tim

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Jun 4, 2011
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north idaho
That comes from a book often used to give to employees by companies just prior to giving them the screw.
or given to employees so they don't think life is static and does not change, but perspective is everything. Mine is people are better than what they think, most internet posters are: the man is screwing them.
 

Rich M

Very Active Member
Oct 16, 2012
572
368
or given to employees so they don't think life is static and does not change, but perspective is everything. Mine is people are better than what they think, most internet posters are: the man is screwing them.
Opportunities change and we adapt and change with them.

People get the option to choose how they react to change. If they want to leave WY and go elsewhere it is their right.

That’s the beauty if the capitalistic society. I’ll hopefully be in WY in 2023. Not sure if I’ll ever hunt there or even most other states again. It’s a lot easier to go fishing as opposed to planning multiple years out to hunt. Cheaper too.
 
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