Stepping my game up

[FitToHunt]

I always here the saying " 10% of the people kill 90% of the animals". I'd consider myself a moderately successful bow hunter. I've killed 3 elk in 10 years on public land with a bow. But have eaten tag soup for 5 straight years. Despite constantly learning and investing more effort into it.

I'm kicking around the idea of investing in my skills more directly.

So my question is: If my main purpose was to seriously step my game up as a bow hunter. Would it be better to do a guided hunt with a quality outfitter, and let them know my intent to learn and not just harvest. Or, pay for a 4 week guide school?

Any thoughts or other recommendations appreciated.

 

[Bonecollector]

IMHO- i’d find a quality outfitter/guide to teach you the ropes on your own hunt. Sure you may learn a lot at school but most of this will not apply to what you’re looking for yet you will still pay for it.

 

[FitToHunt]

Is it reasonable to expect an outfitter to be willing to teach a client all his tricks of the trade, more than just helping me fill my tag?

 

[Bonecollector]

I think if you work with the right outfitter and are upfront with your expectations I would think so. He may be willing to take you on a few other hunts where he is guiding others if the relationship is right.
I think it would be important for the guide to be teaching you on public land and not private land which is much simpler and not as much can be learned on unpressured animals.

 

[Bonecollector]

Or find a seasoned hunter who lives in the western states that can take you hunting And teach you and hopefully help fill your tag as well

 

[JimP]

Hiring a outfitter could turn into a expensive endeavor even if you do bag a elk. Remember that you are paying that guide for his knowledge of the area and not just how to hunt elk. It is also possible that most of the areas that you may be able to hunt will be totally different than what that outfitted hunt will be in.

In my mind the best thing that you can do is to get out into the area and learn the elks habits. Learn where they feed, water, and rest every day. Learn where they spook to after they get pushed and then learn that area as far as bedding, feed, and water. It takes time and dedication to learn these things and it also means that you are going to have to be into the area more than just a few times a year. If you don't really have the time sit down and go over what happened when you were successful. Did you just get lucky or were the elk moving through a area that you chanced upon. You should also carry a notebook and write down your observations on what is going on when and when you don't see elk.

With 3 elk in 10 years I would say that you are beating the averages for most areas. Usually archery elk success rates are usually around 15% or even less in the best of areas.

 

[kidoggy]

you might learn something from a guide but is sounds like you already know the basics . there are literally thousands of books and videos one could watch that could probably teach you anything a guide would and much cheaper.

that said , A guided hunt would be much more fun the sitting watching a video or reading a book.

my advice , if you can afford to ,do them all!!!!!!!!!

the best teacher is trial and error.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Jim is correct about this: learn their habits and area. I am a firm believer in hunting the areas you are successful in, and keep hunting them. Areas that I have hunted deer and been successful in, I hunt them year after year. I literally know which rock I want to be sitting on when it gets light on opening day. Success breeds success. I also know why the animals are there.....food, cover, water and safety.

 

[FitToHunt]

I'm definitely not a novice. In addition to the 3 I've killed. I've also called in multiple bulls for other guys and got my buddy his first bull. I do always hunt out of state, so time in the field is limited by distance.

I definitely agree, spending as much time in the elk woods is going to make a huge difference. I just want to steepen the learning curve as much as I can.

Unfortunately, I'm probably the most experience bow hunter I know. The few guys I've met that seem to fill multiple tags every year, are very stand off ish about sharing hunts.

I just think it would be invaluable to see a true master at work in the field.

 

[tim]

fit to hunt

i am that 10% elk hunter. 20 bulls since 2002 if that matters. All over the counter in idaho and no i am not taking people out hunting. I am a solo guy. With that said, the guys i know who kill elk constantly do more than hunt in the mountains. they recreate in them year round. they are able to go in and out of the mountains year round in any weather in any season. they are super comfortable in the mountains. they are comfortable night or day. they are not afraid of the dark and it is no big deal to hike, ride what ever in the dark or in a storm. Once you are not worried about getting lost or concerned about looking at your phone to see where you are, you will start picking up on the animals. you will be comfortable to go where the animals are. Basically you have to be comfortable going where no one else is willing to go(and that does not mean deaper than most). Become comfortable bushwacking.

My tatics have been find, hunt, kill. you can't hunt until you find, but you can go from find to kill pretty quick. But to be able to find them you have to be comfortable and not worried about where you are or when you will get back to camp. but even if that is mastered, do you have the eyes to pick up game? I am lucky i can look for elk year round, but what if you can't. Train your eyes to pick up on movement. Look for little birds at lunch to train your eyes, ect. There are a myraid of ways to gain more knowledge of the backcountry with out hunting. Go backpacking, biking. go get some firewood, go climb and see what is on the other side of the mountain on your days off.

The actuall hunting part i will leave for the others to chime in on. A guide would be a good way to learn some stuff. A school would teach you alot to be honest with you. Especially if you ever wanted you own stock. But ask questions of the outfitter. I did a dall sheep hunt with an outfitter out of alaska. My guide was a first year guide. I had been in the mountains of alaska more than he had(we actually ran out of food, but i got my ram). I lived up there for 3 years. I taught that kid alot. So the guides are usually expierenced but not always. However i am an annomaly. I have roamed the mountains of alaska, british columbia, montana and idaho all my life. So i do have an advantage over most that way. When you are in the mountains year round, you see game year round and can understand there life cycle a little better and the more knowledgable you are about your quarry the better you will be. Do you study your quarry? Do you have a libary of books on the animals you are pursueing. Anyway i am home sick for the 10th day and bored. I hope this helps some.

 

[FitToHunt]

fit to hunt

i am that 10% elk hunter. 20 bulls since 2002 if that matters. All over the counter in idaho and no i am not taking people out hunting. I am a solo guy. With that said, the guys i know who kill elk constantly do more than hunt in the mountains. they recreate in them year round. they are able to go in and out of the mountains year round in any weather in any season. they are super comfortable in the mountains. they are comfortable night or day. they are not afraid of the dark and it is no big deal to hike, ride what ever in the dark or in a storm. Once you are not worried about getting lost or concerned about looking at your phone to see where you are, you will start picking up on the animals. you will be comfortable to go where the animals are. Basically you have to be comfortable going where no one else is willing to go(and that does not mean deaper than most). Become comfortable bushwacking.

My tatics have been find, hunt, kill. you can't hunt until you find, but you can go from find to kill pretty quick. But to be able to find them you have to be comfortable and not worried about where you are or when you will get back to camp. but even if that is mastered, do you have the eyes to pick up game? I am lucky i can look for elk year round, but what if you can't. Train your eyes to pick up on movement. Look for little birds at lunch to train your eyes, ect. There are a myraid of ways to gain more knowledge of the backcountry with out hunting. Go backpacking, biking. go get some firewood, go climb and see what is on the other side of the mountain on your days off.

The actuall hunting part i will leave for the others to chime in on. A guide would be a good way to learn some stuff. A school would teach you alot to be honest with you. Especially if you ever wanted you own stock. But ask questions of the outfitter. I did a dall sheep hunt with an outfitter out of alaska. My guide was a first year guide. I had been in the mountains of alaska more than he had(we actually ran out of food, but i got my ram). I lived up there for 3 years. I taught that kid alot. So the guides are usually expierenced but not always. However i am an annomaly. I have roamed the mountains of alaska, british columbia, montana and idaho all my life. So i do have an advantage over most that way. When you are in the mountains year round, you see game year round and can understand there life cycle a little better and the more knowledgable you are about your quarry the better you will be. Do you study your quarry? Do you have a libary of books on the animals you are pursueing. Anyway i am home sick for the 10th day and bored. I hope this helps some.

Theres some good points in there I haven't really considered. I definitely don't spend as much time in the mountains as I used to, in other times of the year.

I do hear people saying finding elk is tough, but killing them can be easy. I found the exact opposite. I always find them fast. (During bow season) Getting set up in bow range is where I'm missing the mark. Had probably 8 bulls in bow range two years ago, but couldn't get a clean shot, or just couldn't get an arrow knocked, ranged, and draw fast enough...That's the part I'd really love to see how it's done most effectively.

 

[kidoggy]

Theres some good points in there I haven't really considered. I definitely don't spend as much time in the mountains as I used to, in other times of the year.

I do hear people saying finding elk is tough, but killing them can be easy. I found the exact opposite. I always find them fast. (During bow season) Getting set up in bow range is where I'm missing the mark. Had probably 8 bulls in bow range two years ago, but couldn't get a clean shot, or just couldn't get an arrow knocked, ranged, and draw fast enough...That's the part I'd really love to see how it's done most effectively.

finding them is half the battle , sounds like you have that down pretty well.

when bow hunting/ bugling set up is key. seems they are pretty good at keeping some scrub brush or such between you and them. hard to tell one what to do as often you must just sort of wing it as it unfolds . take every encounter and think on what you might have done different to improve your chances . there is no such thing as a hunter who is successful every time. trial and error.
ONE trick I used to like when hunting with a partner is one guy bugle while the shooter set up 20 or so yards out in front.

another trick... when a herd bull wants to bug out with his cows instead of come in to the bugling. don't be afraid to dog that sum beach. I have tracked herd bulls over several ridges till they got pissed off enough to throw caution to the wind and come back to scrap. doesn't always work but when it does it is a beautiful thing to behold.


I had to give up on archery several years ago do to shoulder/ bicep issues but for past couple years I have been working on trying to strengthen it , enough to bow hunt again. it is about all I can do to pull 50 #s right now and a struggle to hold it long but I am seeing improvement bit by bit.

imo there is nothing like bow hunting the rut.

 

[FitToHunt]

Agreed, rutting elk in September is as good as it gets.

 

[FitToHunt]

Any old dogs out there, that could use a little extra muscle in the backcountry in exchange for sharing some wisdom. I'd be interested.

 

[Slugz]

When stick and string hunting you are not hunting the animal, you are hunting the wind.

 

[Hilltop]

Fittohunt, I would caution you on the guided hunts. There is a fair chance that you will end up with a guide with about the same experience as you unless you really do your research. I was hired as a guide when I was 19. I had shot 6 elk in my life- 5 with a rifle and one with a bow. I did very well my first couple of years guiding but I look back and realize I got pretty dang lucky on some of those hunts. I surely wasn't qualified to be teaching anyone. The bottom line is that outfitters sometimes struggle to keep good, experienced guides on staff.

As far as off-season resources, I like some of the information from elknut.

Good luck to you!

 

[Maxhunter]

There is so much information online about bowhunting elk IMO it would be a waste of money to go guided. I would sign up for Elk101 (Cory Jacobson) or ElkNut (Paul Mendel). Their both very experienced archery elk hunters.

I've taken a lot of elk with a bow in different states. I'm pretty well self taught. When bowhunting elk you have to be versatile. I've taken elk by every method possible, like calling, spotting and stalking, treestand, and still hunting. My favorite method is still hunting.

 

[Timber Stalker]

I’m not a 10% er on elk, that being said the killing part with a bow is where I fail. I hunt an area here in Oregon that has about a 6% success rate. I can typically find a bull within one day, getting an arrow into one is an entirely different story. The best thing I ever did is took a class on elk language and how to call. Since then I have had many, many encounters but little things keep me from getting the shot. I should have had a nice 6 point this last fall but I screwed up the shot, I call it bow hunting.

 

[FitToHunt]

There is so much information online about bowhunting elk IMO it would be a waste of money to go guided. I would sign up for Elk101 (Cory Jacobson) or ElkNut (Paul Mendel). Their both very experienced archery elk hunters.

I've taken a lot of elk with a bow in different states. I'm pretty well self taught. When bowhunting elk you have to be versatile. I've taken elk by every method possible, like calling, spotting and stalking, treestand, and still hunting. My favorite method is still hunting.

Ivd done all that. Elknut, Elk 101, watch/read everything I can get my hands on. Then apply those strategies on the field. I'm just looking to be good enough to fill just about any tag I get. There are guys out there that do.

I'd like to go from intermediate to advanced.

 

[kidoggy]

Ivd done all that. Elknut, Elk 101, watch/read everything I can get my hands on. Then apply those strategies on the field. I'm just looking to be good enough to fill just about any tag I get. There are guys out there that do.

I'd like to go from intermediate to advanced.

there aren't many.

the fact that you are striving to become better will without doubt increase your success though.