Rethinking Deer Gun

[Rich M]

Getting tired of shooting 30-06 - I shoot 243 a lot better and ultimately shot my muley this year with the 243. What I didn't like was the buck shrugging off a high shoulder shot - 100 gr Federal blue box soft point at 215 yards. Upon cleaning him, there was a pencil-punch hole in the shoulder and some shock evidence but it should have leveled him. 30-06 (165 partitions loaded at 2800 fps) would have blown out both shoulders, thrown him to the ground, and kicked him when he was down. Big diff between the 2 calibers.

So, guess I'm getting soft in my old age. 243 is good enough for antelope and the small southern deer we have around here but I'd rather have more damage with the shot. 30-06 is gonna get some safe time waiting for a late season elk hunt somewhere in the future.

Between the 243 and 30-06 are calibers like 25-06, 7mm-08, 260, 6.5 creed, 7x57, and I know not what. These guns run 12-15 pounds recoil, 243 has 10 pound recoil, my 30-06 home loads are likely over 20#. 308 is questionable - over 15 pound recoil with 150s.

Do I scale back on the 30-06 loads and shoot em slower? Load up 243s with more velocity, better lead? Get another cartridge/rifle?

 

[JimP]

I'd get another cartridge/rifle, you never have too many.

I bought a .25-06 a few years ago and it is just the medicine for animals up to deer. With the 115 grain bullets some have used them on elk.

I shot the coues deer in my avatar with it at 420 yards and was ready to stretch the range out to 600. The Barnes 100 grain TTSX bullet dropped him in his tracks with a large exit hole. I have also shot a mule deer at 240 yards and he also dropped.

You could always go with one of the 6.5's also for deer size animals. With premium bullets and not just paper punching ones you should have no trouble

 

[mallardsx2]

Not to be a hater but In my opinion a .243 sized rifles are inadequate for deer at extended ranges unless you are using the heaviest bullet you can find and you make a perfect shot.

I have been involved in MANY blood trailing incidents with 0-little blood. Most did result in a dead deer. But it was pure luck that we even found them.

I know a guy who shot a deer in the lungs then followed it up with a shot in the shoulder at 300 yards and upon boning out the deer the bullet was recovered from the shoulder plate. If it had been his first I doubt he would have found the deer and it certainly wouldn't have died with that shoulder shot. I do not recall what bullet he was shooting. But I can tell you I saw this personally.

I recovered a .243 sized bullet from my elk shoulder plate in 2002. I'm not sure what the story was behind that but the elk was fine and I presume it had been there for several years.

Just my opinion.

Who really knows, I shot a buck at about 400 yards with my 300 WSM and the 150 grain bullets were stuck in the hide on the other side. Makes me wonder if im not shooting enough gun sometimes. lol

 

[Rich M]

Mallard, I agree.

Have been involved in the recovery of 8 or 9, 243 shot deer. One I tracked to where it buried itself in vines and would have been lost if a hoof wasn't sticking out. Yes they die but are usually 1 hole experiences.

I used the 243 over 30-06 cause of my confidence in placing the bullet where it needed to go. The 30-06 was somewhere on an 8 inch target and the 243 was 2.5 inches high and perfectly centered. Was supposed to fine tune 06 when we got there and it was too windy to be shooting 300 yards for fine tuning. Dad had gotten me the 243 bolt rifle , free floated the barrel, and zeroed it. Shot a couple boxes thru it over the summer and took it as a backup gun.

This is the first deer for me with a 243. The high shoulder shot was an instinctive shot - where taught to shoot deer and have never seen one standing after absorbing a bullet, until this year. 2nd shot dropped him and bullet was in skin on far side.

Have a 243 BLR I'll trade in on something with more punch. Just trying to decide what would be best with soft recoil.

 

[sleepingbear]

Daughter shot her first deer with a .243, rem-core-lokt 100gn at 164 yds one shot ,went thru the shoulder and heart exiting behind the other shoulder. I wouldn't let her shoot more than 200yds with that gun. If you are involved in enough shot, hits and trackings whether it be archery,muzzy or rifle i think we all will have that what happened moment. But but as JimP says cant have to many, i have a hand made recurve, compound, .243, 2x .270, 3006, .338 and a .50 cal muzzy.

 

[Hilltop]

My sons have both shot numerous deer with a .243. The right ammo makes a huge difference in this caliber imo. I had some bad luck in the early years with cheap ammo when my oldest first started hunting. We had several deer go a good distance from solid hits and had almost no blood trail on any of them. I switched to Hornady Superformance with 95 grain SST several years ago and have been very happy with the terminal performance. My 10 year old shot 3 mule deer over the past weekend with these loads and all 3 went down very quickly. Since switching to this ammo, we haven't had a deer go more than 20 yards and also haven't had a bullet stay in a deer. I would compare the terminal performance closer to a 25-06. I wouldn't hesitate to take a mature mule deer inside of 400 yards with them.

 

[RICMIC]

I love my 30-06 Tikka and never found recoil to be an issue. If you are a recoil wus, first of all, see if you need to upgrade your recoil pad. Also, unless you do a lot of foot humping when you hunt, having an ultra-lightweight rifle isn't necessary and increases the perceived recoil. Because ammo is so cheap for the 06, I can shoot a lot (and it helps to have my own rifle range.) All that said, any excuse for a new rifle is a good excuse.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I'm with JimP. I have shot my 25-06 since 1970. I have a Ruger M77 that I bought new. It is topped with a Leupold 4x14 VXlll with a ballistic turret. I handload and shoot a 117 gr Sierra BT Game King bullet. I have shot over 100 animals with it (Deer, antelope, hogs) and have never had a problem, love the gun. Longest shot has been 425 on an antelope, one shot. I recommend the caliber highly. I even built a 25-06 before it was a factory cartridge, it was called a 25 Neider back in the 60's.

 

[taskswap]

I bought my wife a Weatherby Camilla in 7mm-08 rem which I had read about but never tried. It sure is pleasant to shoot, and from what I've read it's taken plenty of game. I thought about getting one for me. I'm not one for fads and I have too many friends that went 6.5cm. I like that I can reliably get up to 160gr with the slightly larger round, and it's still a very clean shooter with much lower recoil than my current 30-06.

 

[jerm8352]

You would not believe the difference a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad will have on a rifle. I put a slip on one on my 300 win mag and it is a completely different gun now. They are only like 30-40 bucks I believe. Try that on the 30.06 and see how it goes. If not, 6.5 creedmoor has very little recoil and should be plenty for a deer.

 

[dan maule]

I bought my wife a Weatherby Camilla in 7mm-08 rem which I had read about but never tried. It sure is pleasant to shoot, and from what I've read it's taken plenty of game. I thought about getting one for me. I'm not one for fads and I have too many friends that went 6.5cm. I like that I can reliably get up to 160gr with the slightly larger round, and it's still a very clean shooter with much lower recoil than my current 30-06.

Just curious, how do you like the Camilla? My daughter uses a Remington 700 Mountain DM in 7mm-08. Before handing it down to her my son shot Antelope at 300 yards, a black bear, mule deer and numerous whitetails. My daughter has already killed 4 bucks with it. Now my wife wants to use it. I can't find this rifle anywhere they stopped making the mountain rifle with the clip in the mid 1990s, so I am looking at getting her a Camilla in 7mm-08 but I don't know anyone who has one and none of the stores around here have one on hand to check out.

 

[JimP]

I think that the big difference between the Camilla and the Vanguard is just the length of the stock. So if you can find a Vanguard that fits her I'd go for it. Other than that you just need to keep looking or have a shop order one in for a test fit.

 

[Prerylyon]

.280 REM or .280 AI; use a 140 gr pill the rifle likes and that you have confidence in.

On 2nd thought, after referring to this:

Rifle Recoil Table

Scratch the .280 REM, it has ~ the same recoil as the ought-six.

.280 AI, 7mm-08, 260 REM worth a look.

 

[Shane13]

I have a .240 Weatherby that I've had since I was a kid (old German Mark V). I keep 100 gr Partitions loaded for it. It's killed a pile of mule deer, whitetail, antelope, aoudad, axis, hogs, coyotes, blackbuck...... It packs a lot more punch than a .243, but the recoil isn't bad at all. It's an excellent gun for deer-sized game.

A .257 Weatherby would be another great choice in between a .243 and a .30-06. .25-06 is great too, if you'd prefer ammo off the shelf.

 

[taskswap]

Just curious, how do you like the Camilla? My daughter uses a Remington 700 Mountain DM in 7mm-08. Before handing it down to her my son shot Antelope at 300 yards, a black bear, mule deer and numerous whitetails. My daughter has already killed 4 bucks with it. Now my wife wants to use it. I can't find this rifle anywhere they stopped making the mountain rifle with the clip in the mid 1990s, so I am looking at getting her a Camilla in 7mm-08 but I don't know anyone who has one and none of the stores around here have one on hand to check out.

I can't speak for it myself because it's designed specifically for women and doesn't fit me. But she loves it. The Camilla is marketed at having three specific features for lady shooters: negative-angle butt stock to better fit their shoulder pockets, raised comb, and shorter length of pull. I'm 6' with long arms and the few times I took a few shots with it for fun, it obviously wasn't a good fit. But for her, it's a real tack driver.

My daughter is a few years away from hunting, still, but we bought this partially with her in mind. We've read reviews of several girls getting started with this gun and they were all positive. We'll see how that goes, but in the meantime, I can at least recommend the caliber. It's definitely effective and I think at least worth a look.

 

[Timr245]

A .257 Weatherby would be another great choice in between a .243 and a .30-06. .25-06 is great too, if you'd prefer ammo off the shelf.

Couldn’t agree more! My 257 Weatherby is absolutely devastating on deer. That said, in 23 years I’ve killed the most deer with my trusty 6mm, never tracked one more than a couple hundred yards. Hit em where they breathe and it’s never an issue.

 

[Rich M]

Thanks guys.

My struggles w the 06 go back 42 years to an 8 yr old kid being told you'll use this or stay home. Havent lost a deer or had a diff tracking job with it. And did put a pricey recoil pad on there with negligible effects.

Have 2 weekends and 1 or 2 deer left to shoot. Will try Hilltop's suggestion and get some 95 gr SSTs to see how they work. My fav stand has shot opps out to 225.

Meanwhile, gonna start looking for a deal on a decent used rifle, thinking 7mm08. Will reload.

 

[RICMIC]

Just curious, how do you like the Camilla? My daughter uses a Remington 700 Mountain DM in 7mm-08. Before handing it down to her my son shot Antelope at 300 yards, a black bear, mule deer and numerous whitetails. My daughter has already killed 4 bucks with it. Now my wife wants to use it. I can't find this rifle anywhere they stopped making the mountain rifle with the clip in the mid 1990s, so I am looking at getting her a Camilla in 7mm-08 but I don't know anyone who has one and none of the stores around here have one on hand to check out.

Dan, that is the exact rifle that I recently passed on to my grandson. It was my go-to deer rifle for a number of years, and always did the job, plus several antelope does out to 200 yards. My grandson is only 120# and not likely to get bigger at age 21, so this rifle was a great fit for him. I would search the internet gun outlets, local gun stores, and especially the gun shows for that DM model. I only go to one large gun show once a year, and it amazes me what pops up sometimes.

 

[Ikeepitcold]

I would consider a 270 or 308 with a muzzle brake.

 

[go_deep]

270 130 grain puts you around 16. Thats all I've used for antelope to elk for 7 years. Farthest I've ever had anything go is one elk maybe 100 yards, and all I use is cheap Remington core-lok.

Good luck in your decision!