Parks and Wildlife Commission License Distribution Workshop

Slugz

Veteran member
Oct 12, 2014
3,573
2,087
53
Woodland Park, Colorado

I think its interesting that there is genuine concern to fix some issues in the system.

Point creep, getting the high point holders the ability to actually hunt ( return on investment for non residents), crowding during OTC seasons. All discussed lightly here as CPW is educating the Commissioners.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Winchester

Colorado Cowboy

Super Moderator
Jun 8, 2011
7,854
3,697
81
Dolores, Colorado
I have listened to about half of it, I'll finish later this evening. My first take is this Commission is leaning heavily toward the liberal, conservation and tree hugger members. (I encourage you to google CPW Commission and read the resume's of the members). I really believe the last 2 Governors have done a number on the hunters, with more to come. The Legislature already screwed us by putting into law that 20% of all tag allocations go to landowners right off the top, then CPW takes off 17% for junior licenses and then we get the resident/nr split. In some cases residents get as low as 50% of the tags.

Colorado resident hunters need to wake up, now I know how Wyoming resident hunters feel. Too bad we can't make some changes that benefit resident hunters, but it will never happen here as hunters don't make up enough of the population to control anything that has political
implications.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JimP and Winchester

Winchester

Veteran member
Mar 27, 2014
2,315
1,646
Woodland Park, Colorado
Yeah, I think our problems began getting worse when we went from CO Division of Wildlife to CO Parks and Wildlife.

At this point I guess the best thing to do is adopt a license allocation similar to the 90/10 WY is working on.
Probably best to also take the Outfitter cut out of the NR 10%. That should work.
Oh, and eliminate OTC Elk Tags for NRs ... o_O :ROFLMAO:
 

00BUCK

Active Member
Feb 23, 2011
270
162
NorCal
Yeah, I think our problems began getting worse when we went from CO Division of Wildlife to CO Parks and Wildlife.

At this point I guess the best thing to do is adopt a license allocation similar to the 90/10 WY is working on.
Probably best to also take the Outfitter cut out of the NR 10%. That should work.
Oh, and eliminate OTC Elk Tags for NRs ... o_O :ROFLMAO:
Many, if not most members on this forum joined because they enjoy traveling out of state for DIY hunts. I know that is why I did. EHJ in a large part focuses on helping the traveling DIY hunter to help them find and fill these tags.

So why are you trying to directly provoking this group with those comments. I know I don't need to come on here and read these comments and for some to give you a thumbs up for your post is sad.
 

Colorado Cowboy

Super Moderator
Jun 8, 2011
7,854
3,697
81
Dolores, Colorado
Many, if not most members on this forum joined because they enjoy traveling out of state for DIY hunts. I know that is why I did. EHJ in a large part focuses on helping the traveling DIY hunter to help them find and fill these tags.

So why are you trying to directly provoking this group with those comments. I know I don't need to come on here and read these comments and for some to give you a thumbs up for your post is sad.
I hunt out of state a lot and I go to California too ( I was born there and lived there for 58 years before I retired and left). But when Colorado residents are only get 50% of the drawing tags in certain units, there needs to be something done. Our CPW tout that we (residents) get 75 to 80% of the drawing tags, it's not true. How would you feel if you as a California could only draw for 50% of the tag in you X zone areas for deer? Bet you wouldn't be too happy about it.
 

Winchester

Veteran member
Mar 27, 2014
2,315
1,646
Woodland Park, Colorado
I’m not advocating for anything … yet.
But permit me to ask a question:
If this were your home state and you and your friends were only permitted to draw 40-50% of the tags, and you could only hunt your favorite honey holes once every few years (or every 20+ years in a high demand area) … would you think that’s ok?
 

Colorado Cowboy

Super Moderator
Jun 8, 2011
7,854
3,697
81
Dolores, Colorado
The other thing that they are considering is using points for 2nd, 3rd & 4th choices, which is a huge change as now only 1st choice uses points. I choose a point for first choice and choose a unit I can usually draw for 2nd or 3rd. I can still hunt almost every year even tho my 2nd or 3rd choice is a unit that doesn't have a lot of potential and still build points for my desired unit.. I sometimes fill the tag.....BUT at least I get to hunt pretty frequently here.

My primary deer unit usually takes 7 or so points, so under this proposal, I would only hunt deer every 7 or so years. This is really a hit for me.
 

JimP

Administrator
Mar 28, 2016
6,697
7,811
69
Gypsum, Co
Reading these comments are quite interesting.

Regarding the commission it sounds like resident hunters of Colorado have the same complaint that resident hunters of Utah have about their commission that set the rules for tags and draws. The only difference is that Utah is a very red state and those that sit on the wildlife board are appointed by a conservative Governor instead of the liberal ones here in Colorado.

On the points, a few years ago Utah had a loophole with their draws where they considered max point holders for all choices 1, 2, 3, or 4 for buck deer. So if you had max points the draw looked at all your choices before they went down in points to the next applicant. To fix this problem they went to the extreme of a applicant loosing all their points if they drew any of their choices. They changed it a while ago to where if you even pick up a left over tag you will loose all your points. Quite drastic since it is still taking residents a few years to draw a general deer tag. Right now they are talking about raising tag fees for residents and there are a lot of mad hunters.

When it comes down to it most are not going to enjoy what any of the commissions come up with. Residents should get a good portion of the tags but just where do you draw the line? I also hunt out of state and don't want to have to wait until I am in my 90's to hunt any of them.

It is a lot like my brother in law and I used to talk about. We had seen some of the best hunting and when it come down to drawing tags it is just going to get worse.
 

mallardsx2

Veteran member
Jul 8, 2015
3,519
2,643
“The 11 voting members of the commission include three members who are sportspersons, one of whom must be an outfitter; three agricultural producers; three recreationalists, including one from a non-profit, non-consumptive wildlife organization; two at-large members. Members are expected to represent all parks and wildlife-related issues, regardless of their affiliation. A minimum of four commissioners must be from west of the Continental Divide.”

This virtual meeting was so hard to listen to (I did listen to the whole thing last night) and some of the questions asked (or the lack there of) were ridiculously stupid for people that are in charge of setting rules. Some of the commissioners were calling in by phone and you could hardly hear them and it was pretty obvious that they weren't putting much effort into actually participating in the call.

In the private sector, most of these people would be FIRED….so they should be glad they have cushy govt jobs where they can be so incompetent/lackadaisical about the topics at hand…After all, they are the commissioners so the should be held to a higher standard.

From what I can see/hear these commissioners are scatterbrained and grossly under-qualified to maintain voting positions and very few of them deserve the publics respect to cast a vote on these topics.

At the end of the day, I get it, residents want more LIMITED ENTRY tags and less NR pressure. I would too if I lived there…but the CPW has the NR $ on their fangs. And they like the taste of it…

My thoughts about change:

-Colorado needs to go back to having people pay for their tags up front like it used to be and offer NO REFUNDS (similar to Wyoming)

-Colorado needs to force people to burn their points for ANY A-list tag no matter when it is drawn and make people sacrifice 1 point for an OTC tag.

-Colorado needs to make people buy their OTC Tags within 2 weeks following the primary draw. Stop making Colorado the August fallback plan state for all of the late in the year holdouts.

20 minutes of talk about point creep and that idiot wanted to push point banking….lord have mercy….

IMO, when the commissioners saw these charts it pretty much assured the status quo, especially for for OTC archery.
So I wouldn't look for change here. Although, I like the idea of reducing the OTC archery and setting a cap at a 25% reduction to 2021 license sales. That would reduce a lot of pressure. Are residents willing to increase their license fees to cover the 5.6 million $ delta? They should be prepared to since they are the ones crying the loudest.

411154111641117
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Winchester

Winchester

Veteran member
Mar 27, 2014
2,315
1,646
Woodland Park, Colorado
Interesting points mallards.

I agree many of the commissioner’s don’t seem well informed, or even qualified. I thought the tutorial on how to read a Hunt Code with the follow-on audience quiz was very telliing. Anyone who’s a commissioner should already know that kind of stuff.

Just FYI, I’m willing to pay significantly more for my tags if that’s what it takes to get this right.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Colorado Cowboy

Colorado Cowboy

Super Moderator
Jun 8, 2011
7,854
3,697
81
Dolores, Colorado
Interesting points mallards.

I agree many of the commissioner’s don’t seem well informed, or even qualified. I thought the tutorial on how to read a Hunt Code with the follow-on audience quiz was very telliing. Anyone who’s a commissioner should already know that kind of stuff.

Just FYI, I’m willing to pay significantly more for my tags if that’s what it takes to get this right.
Spot on...I agree 100%.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Winchester

mallardsx2

Veteran member
Jul 8, 2015
3,519
2,643
Not to be argumentative with you Colorado guys, because I do respect your opinions on this forum, however pointing your frustration of not drawing a first round A-list tag towards the R/NR split isn't entirely fair IMO due to what CC already pointed out:

Your Legislature already screwed you by putting into law that 20% of all tag allocations go to landowners right off the top, then CPW takes off 17% for junior licenses and then you get the resident/nr split. (Inspiring video of the glasses and the water BTW.....)

So should the NR A-list tags be what you should really be going after? Or is it not fair to assume that those LPP tags, and youth allocations should also be in your crosshairs as resident adult hunters? Seems like a fair statement, maybe not. I imagine that most of those LPP are sold to the highest bidder (unless I am wrong in that assumption) and that those are going to R/NR "Hunters/Landowners". Asking your opinion here....Seems like those two entities (LPP and Youth) have taken a massive part of your pie...

There are a bunch of things that could help you Resident guys draw more A-list tags without even touching the R/NR allocations.....up to an including what I stated in my prior post. Starting with burning peoples points for tags drawn and forcing a no-refund policy...

People have to get through the system or creep will continue to climb. If points use is forced, point creep will come down. However if the ridiculous idea of point banking is put in place those lower point units will SKYROCKET in the years to come.

All of the options that are on the table to make residents "happier" are going to either effect someone's pocket book, CPW revenue, or are going to hurt someone's feelings. So it will be interesting to see what direction they go. Pretty certain it will be me who needs a kleenex after all of the dust settles. Like I always say "The beatings will continue until moral improves". lol

It does say a lot that you are willing to take it on the chin with your price of license to increase your ability to have a more enjoyable hunt regarding OTC. I too hope they do something to reduce the pressure on the OTC hunts and if that means I cant hunt there every year, then so be it. I don't plan to hunt OTC every year anyhow. Likely only once every three years or so.

All good conversation.
 
Last edited:

mallardsx2

Veteran member
Jul 8, 2015
3,519
2,643
Honestly, I hope it works out well for everyone, R and NR.

I don't have a say in it. I will just roll with whatever hand I am dealt. Hopefully it doesn't set me back 2-4 years in my planning. It if does, I have other irons in the fire and god willing, a lot of life left ahead of me to draw a few good tags and enjoy Colorado.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Winchester

Colorado Cowboy

Super Moderator
Jun 8, 2011
7,854
3,697
81
Dolores, Colorado
I have a much narrower point of view. I only hunt a few deer and elk units and they are not really blue chip units. Over the years I have found a few that I know well and I have been successful in. The one thing that is being discussed that will potentially hurt me the most is using points for any draw regardless of choice. I am 80 now and probably don't have all that many years left to hunt. It takes 6 to 7 points (currently) to draw the units I hunt and I buy points every year as first choice. I have a few other units I know well that are not popular for various reasons ( low population. lots of private, etc) that I put in for a 2nd or 3rd choice that I usually draw every year. Sometimes I do get to fill the tag and if not at least I get to hunt. If I lose this option, it will really hurt. I actually would rather stay home than hunt OTC elk and battle the "orange army" during 2nd & 3rd elk seasons.
 

mallardsx2

Veteran member
Jul 8, 2015
3,519
2,643
CC

If they cut it to a 90/10 split for that specific area would you like to draw, would that even solidify that you would draw it with the current point creep that is happening?

Seems like I am chasing units for deer every single year they keep getting 1 point further away and they would have to double the NR tags for me to even catch up.
 

Shane13

Active Member
Aug 8, 2012
301
200
Abilene, Texas
I pay money to lease private land to hunt in my home state. It would be nice to have a chance to hunt for free - even once every two or three years. I know you guys that have grown accustomed to hunting for free every year are upset when those opportunities begin to get harder to come by. But when there are more people and less wildlife habitat, free hunting will be only a distant memory before long. If NR hunters are shut out, the revenue they provide will dry up. And then resident hunters' costs will increase. As the number of resident hunters grow, they won't be able to get a tag every year either - even if they cut out NRs all together.

I'm not throwing stones at anyone. Just talking reality.