Never in Doubt
Active Member
- Jul 9, 2012
- 304
- 0
Outfitters selling info
- Thread starter Ikeepitcold
- Start date
Tim, I think in any reasonable discussion that a couple things matter, and one of the big ones is the facts. The implication that you're trying to make holds NO water. This bill was NOT in any way, shape or form the brain child of Wyoming Sportsmen. Its not pitting hunter against hunter, its trying to stop a practice that is BOTH damaging to outfitters bottom line, as well as a huge ethical concern among hunters here in Wyoming. The GF is also in support of banning the practice too.
I happen to agree with the outfitters that the practice of selling GPS cords, maps and pictures of specific animals is a bad idea. Its also more than just a business decision, it is a matter of hunting ethics and how far down the rabbit hole we want hunting to go.
Just like the regulation that WYBHA worked on in regard to aircraft use, it makes, just slightly more than a metric chit-ton of sense, to get out in front of this issue while its still a relatively small problem. The longer you wait to put the genie back in the bottle, the tougher it is. Nip it while in its infancy.
I'm not asking you to agree or disagree with the legislation, but quit trying to make this an US vs. THEM issue when its largely not. Quit trying to connect dots when none exist, the legislation will not stop any lawful outfitting and guiding...NONE.
Its a pretty rare bird when WYOGA, the WYGF Department, and Wyoming R and NR sportsmen are pretty well on the same page about an issue...which we are on this one.
Lastly, Wyoming has the ability and right to manage our wildlife as we see fit...and we will do so.
IMO, you would be well served to figure out what your state wants to do with this issue...its happening there too. Oregon (and all the Western States) are closely watching how the legislation/regulation plays out here in Wyoming.
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Hilltop
Veteran member
I think we are turning this back into the selling GPS coord for animals. That wasn't the basis for the thread imo. The OP stated "I was just listening to a podcast from another host not Eastmans Elevated discussing some outfitters that will sell info to clients. Specific Info like where to glass from, canyons to hunt in, and where to look for the specific species your hunting. " To me this is scouting areas, very similar to what a drop camp provides or honestly what is provided in a lot of area research by many places,including the site we are on, just on a more detailed level. The intention is to make money of course but it gives a non-resident who wants to pay for help another option instead of paying for a fully guided hunt. Where should the line be drawn? I'm not sure personally but I have absolutely bought a guy a beer in a bar to pick his brain in the past. Would that be a grey area? My point is that I believe most sportsmen have no issue with people paying for a guide. Why would they have an issue with people paying for a partial guide? That's what this is- paying for a semi-guided hunt. Selling exact GPS coordinates for a specific animal is a whole different can of worms to me that I do not agree with.
As to the rabbit hole- we are already way below semi-guided hunts.
As to the rabbit hole- we are already way below semi-guided hunts.
Not going to try picking fly chit out of pepper about the intent of the discussion.
But, I just got a call an hour ago regarding the GF bringing up a lot of these issues of technology limitations being discussed at the next commission meeting.
Apparently its a big enough issue that the GF wants to do more than talk about it.
Hilltop
Veteran member
I believe they should as long as ethics and management are the basis behind what is done- not deciding who's pocket the money ends up in. I believe the majority of us are all for preserving hunting as we know it and support laws that are in line with management and ethical hunting. In my opinion, a guy paying to be told what drainage to look for an elk in is no different than a guy paying an outfitter to have his guide take him to the same drainage. Maybe I'm in the minority? In any event, I do respect your opinions and enjoy being able to respectfully debate issues like this on here.
mntnguide
Very Active Member
If the guy selling the info is licensed.. then so be it. But when you have a guy from Utah selling gps coordinates and locations to big bucks and pays ZERO fees to the state of Wyoming in any way.. then that is not the same as outfitting. Outfitters are licensed, insured and only allowed in the certain areas the are licensed for, and they can lose their license at any point for violating laws. The person who is just doing it to make money and sell wildlife is not doing a damn thing for this state and therefore I fully support game and fish trying to put a stop to certain individuals who have been basically illegally outfitting by collecting compensation for while assisting someone's hunt, but not claiming that money as business in the state of Wyoming. I'll be going to the deer meetings that are upcoming and look forward to voicing my thoughts and hearing what they are thinking as well.
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NE69
Active Member
One things we can all agree on is that things change. Hunting has changed so much in last 100 years. It will continue to change the next hundred.
Thankfully I won't be around to see it because I really don't think hunting is changing for the better. Only making it easier for the lazy ones not willing to put in the work.
My remarks are about the question the OP asked. Not chasing straw men with you. It was not a WY thread. You may want to start a thread about the WY process, probably be informative.
My remarks have been consistent, essentially I support any legal means of hunting, whether I like it or not. If I am against it, I don't do it, and if I think it should be regulated/banned, I work at that.
Second, I do not support folks that denegrate other hunters who are legally using means, they personally dislike. Things like calling them worthless and the like, aka shooting inside the tent. Serves no useful purpose I can think of. Most can respectively make their case to change a law etc., without name calling and personal attacks, some can't...
Bonecollector
Veteran member
I'll keep my opinion to myself for now, but will remind everyone that a civil debate is done without CAPS, exclamation points, name calling, and any negativity.
Tim, I'm not going to go 15 rounds with you, my last post on this one. I didn't change the subject to Wyoming, JimP did.
Secondly the OP asked for opinions...and I gave mine, in an honest answer. Being honest is never not the right thing to say.
As to your straw man, I think you should read your own posts for a perfect example of that.
Whether you agree or not, the ethics of hunting has been discussed for decades and the banning of certain equipment, bag limits, seasons, weapon restrictions, caliber restrictions, etc. etc. are all part of that debate. Lots of regulations are a minimum set of requirements to define fair chase and ethics...its all they are, all they ever were, and all they're ever going to be.
Any time a regulation, law, or rule is passed, someone is going to be impacted...some negatively, and some positively. If everyone agreed on the issue, no need for a regulation, rule or law in the first place.
Like I said, instead of hiding under the bed about this issue of selling locations, scouting services, GPS coords. etc., and being afraid to step on toes, lets talk about it, honestly talk about it. I think its great that information is shared about WY or any other state that is looking to tighten up regulation/statute on this subject. I will reiterate, your state is watching what happens in WY...you may want to get in front of this, one way or the other, whether you agree or disagree with it. Doesn't matter to me, I don't live in Oregon, not my pig, not my farm...simply a heads up. But, either way, someone's ox is going to be gored.
Trust me, the same things were cussed and discussed when we tightened up the flight regulations...there was opposition to the regulation changes WYBHA successfully pushed. Including, but not limited to, testimony in opposition from WY elected officials. States all across the West addressed the drone/aircraft regulations over a pretty short time period. These types of regulations seem to have a domino effect all across the West.
Nothing to get worked up about, not everyone agrees, seen it.
Honestly, what I could do without is the passive aggressive posts, most seem to be able to not do that, others cant.
Carry on...
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JimP
Administrator
I don't believe that I changed the subject to Wyoming. I mentioned the possible new law in Wyoming in my first post.
It was neither a way to distract the thread or start a new discussion on it but a statement.
You BuzzH picked it up and ran with it in the next post.
Then after another page of post I did ask a question about the law that requires non resident hunters in Wyoming to hire a outfitter if they are hunting in a wilderness.
This was meant to just carry the discussion on about outfitters, whether you hired them as a guide service or just for their information. Wyoming was just convenient because they are the only one of the lower 48 states to require this at this time.
JM77
Member
buckbull
Veteran member
- Jun 20, 2011
- 2,170
- 1,360
Pretty risky business selling secrets in your own outfitter area. However any outfitter isn't going to sell the best spots so you'll probably be buying marginal information or even be mislead. Some outfitters play dirty. Don't be a sucker for this and just put a day or two extra to hunt in the area.