OPINIONS ON BONUS POINTS vs PREFERENCE POINTS

Alabama

Veteran member
Feb 18, 2013
1,395
191
Sweet Home Alabama
Alright guys let's hear some opinions on what you like or dislike about bonus points, preference points or random draws. I know there are a lot of different systems in states that have bonus and/or preference points. Which do you like and/or hate and why?
 

packmule

Veteran member
Jun 21, 2011
2,433
0
TX
If I have to put in for a draw then I like true PP systems; it's easy to see where you stand.
 

NDHunter

Veteran member
Feb 25, 2011
1,166
25
North Dakota
Uh oh, the worm can is open.

For me, I kind of like the variety that each state has. Every system has advantages and disadvantages and so a guy can kind of use each system to his benefit at times. The thing I hate is how states change up their draw system at times and blow up your plans....
 

Fink

Veteran member
Apr 7, 2011
1,961
204
West Side, MoMo
I think preference and bonus point systems are complete garbage, doing nothing but screwing the guy (youth hunters) that don't get in on the ground floor.. Take for example Colorado, the best units take 21-22 points to draw? I wish I would have been forward thinking enough, when I was 7, to get into the points game. But, since I wasn't, ill never have an opportunity to draw that tag. What's the point total going to take when I have kids? 50?

A straight up random draw is the absolutely only fair way to allocate tags.
 

Shooter

Active Member
Feb 22, 2011
244
4
Washington
If I had to chose a point system It would be bonus point. I do not like preference points. And I would rather have just a random draw.
 

Umpqua Hunter

Veteran member
May 26, 2011
3,576
88
61
North Umpqua, Oregon
I personally like point systems. Here are some of my thoughts.

THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN AT IT FOR YEARS: I like the point systems and have been investing in them for 25 years. The point systems have paid off and will pay off. I have four prime elk tags that I should draw in the next 5-7 years barring a change in the systems. On the other hand, I have "lesser quality" tags I have drawn 3, 4 or 5 times on points. In my personal situation if there was a change, I would lose thousands of dollars that were spent as an investment, so states would have to address that seriously if they considered changes. I could have drawn tags in every one of these states by now, but I chose to stick it out for the best of the best.

NEWCOMERS TO HUNTING: My wife has been hunting 3 years. When she started hunting, I knew I had to employ a different strategy than trying to get her the best tag in the state. As a result, she has drawn three antelope tags, a sheep tag, two prime mule deer tags, one of the best blacktail tags in Oregon, and a Coues deer tag in the past three seasons. She has drawn tags in 5 different states, all of which have point systems. ALL of the tags she drew had point systems in place with the exception of her Oregon sheep tag. I expect over the next 5 years she will draw several more tags, including some high quality elk tags. This year my son drew the second best antelope tag in the state of Oregon with only 2 points. A person just has to do their homework and find the right places to apply. I honestly I would love to teach the stuff I've learned over the years, but if I do those opportunities will be gone for my friends and family. Even with point systems, the opportunities are out there for newbies, you just have to be strategic.

YOUTH HUNTING: Some states, like Oregon, are remedying the concern about youth, by having youth only tags, and also "First Time Hunter" program where if a child has not drawn a certain type of tag, they can pick ANY tag in the state they want so long as there are a certain number of tags in the unit (buck deer for example it has to have 51+ tags). The youth in Oregon WILL get some good tags if their mentor understands the system and how to best utilize it.

POINT CREEP: Point creep will eventually stop, there is just so long a person can hunt.

The problem with saying certain units take 15, 20 or 25 points, is those units are the best of the best. Those same units in a random draw would have odds so ridiculous that most people would never draw it even if they applied their entire lifetimes. One elk tag I am applying for has something like 1:600 simple draw odds. In a random draw it will take 600 years to draw statistically, most of us would die before then ;-). I will draw the firearm tag in a few years, even though I did not have max points to start with. I could have drawn the archery tag in that same unit many years ago, and had a tremendous hunt. Guys with far less points than me are drawing the archery tag. When you have a unit that has 1:600 odds, statistically it will take twelve hunting lifetimes to draw, if you applied for that unit every year for your entire lifetime (20 to 70 years old or so). That means 11 out of 12 people would never draw if they applied their whole lifetimes. At least with a point system someone can actually plan to draw certain tags eventually.

A very general approximation is tags take 1/3rd to 1/5th the time to draw with point systems that without. Most people don't think of this in terms of.....I will have 1:50 odds to draw...and even though I have a chance, I will likely never draw....OR I could draw that tag with 10 points if I stuck with it.
 
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bigsky2

Member
Mar 9, 2011
103
2
I am not a big fan of preference point systems because of all the money you have to invest to get the highest quality tags, and it is discouraging knowing it may take you twenty years to draw some tags. On the other hand, I think the people that have put in for the longest time should have the best chance to draw the tag, so I am all for the bonus point system. The people that have put in the longest have more chances to draw, but it is still a totally random drawing process.
 

Drhorsepower

Veteran member
May 19, 2011
2,225
0
Reno, Nevada, United States
Well stated uh, another thing is states probably gain more revenue with a points system because guys like me will apply every year. Lotto states I only put in for when I can either afford it or I don't plan on drawing any other state.
 

shootbrownelk

Veteran member
Apr 11, 2011
1,535
196
Wyoming
I wish us Wyoming residents had preference points for deer & elk. Non-Residents have pretty darned good odds at drawing tags after 6 years in very hard to draw areas. Areas that I haven't drawn after 20+ years of applying. It's only fair, in my opinion.
 

Topgun 30-06

Banned
Jun 12, 2013
1,353
1
Allegan, MI
I wish us Wyoming residents had preference points for deer & elk. Non-Residents have pretty darned good odds at drawing tags after 6 years in very hard to draw areas. Areas that I haven't drawn after 20+ years of applying. It's only fair, in my opinion.
The only reason NRs can draw after 6 or 7 years is because the PP system for us has only been existence for 7 years. The PPs to draw the top units is going to keep going right up like it is in all the other states like CO that take 20+ years to draw. To me a random draw is the fairest way to go and if a person draws a tag in the harder to draw units you could possibly have a waiting period for that person to get back into the draw for the harder units and he could apply for the easier one and be able to hunt just about every year. I've hunted out there most every year since the early 90s and the elk unit where I hunt could be drawn almost every year. Now it's taking within one of max PPs to draw it in the regular draw and even quite a few PPs in the special, higher priced draw. That's why the Bill that was introduced to have a resident PP system was nixed by the Legislature in this session.
 
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buckbull

Veteran member
Jun 20, 2011
2,170
1,360
I don't mind preference points. Guys trying to draw the tag for 10, 15, 20 years probably should have preference. I like the fact that each state does different things. You can decide what states you want to play the PP game in, and roll the dice on bonus point or random draw states. If all else fails, you can rely on general or OTC tags. I wonder what the wait would be if all units went to limited draw? Would hunters be willing to go to a limited draw and not hunt as often but in return have less competition and better quality animals?
 

HuskyMusky

Veteran member
Nov 29, 2011
1,337
183
IL
bonus points that are squared make the most sense to me.

if some guys have 20pts and you have 0 and it's a true pref pt system then why bother even applying? at least with bonus points you have a chance to draw be it slim.

I hate the hybrid systems, ie 75% pref pt, 25% bonus BS... one or the other, and ideally a squared bonus point system!

I like points, states with no points means you could apply a lifetime and never draw! whereas another guy could apply for 60years and draw every year! that's statistics for you!
 

packmule

Veteran member
Jun 21, 2011
2,433
0
TX
PP lets you plan and actually evaluate units before dropping points. Of course in CO you can hunt off vouchers every year to fulfill the urge to hunt while hoarding pts to get into a good unit. I know several folks who will burn 20-23pts when a 4th season opens back in the Gunnison basin and it helps them sleep better at night knowing they'll actually get the tags.
 

trkytrack2

Active Member
Sep 13, 2011
270
0
Sterling, Colorado
I think preference and bonus point systems are complete garbage, doing nothing but screwing the guy (youth hunters) that don't get in on the ground floor.. Take for example Colorado, the best units take 21-22 points to draw? I wish I would have been forward thinking enough, when I was 7, to get into the points game. But, since I wasn't, ill never have an opportunity to draw that tag. What's the point total going to take when I have kids? 50?

A straight up random draw is the absolutely only fair way to allocate tags.
I agree with you 100%. My youngest boys are 14 now and I seriously doubt if they will ever draw a moose tag in Colorado.
 

Fink

Veteran member
Apr 7, 2011
1,961
204
West Side, MoMo
UH- You obviously make some very valid points here, and I agree, in your current situation, it would be absolute highway robbery to eliminate a point system, and steal from you 20 years worth of time and effort. And yes, there are lots of opportunities for people that are new to the game, but I don't like the fact that people that are just getting started, or kids that haven't started yet are completely shut out, with no hopes of ever drawing an elk tag in the NW corner of CO, or an AZ strip tag, or a unit 10 AZ elk tag, or.... Yet, you could draw NM or ID's very best hunt next year.

Eventually, Missouri will establish huntable populations of elk. When it does, the state will implement a preference point system. And when it does, I'll be in on the ground floor, and may stand a chance of drawing a tag in my lifetime. But, the guy that's a point behind me never will.
 

Alabama

Veteran member
Feb 18, 2013
1,395
191
Sweet Home Alabama
I don't like the true preference point systems that give you 0 chance to draw until you hit max points. What's the incentive to apply. So that's why they implemented the 75-25 split in Wyoming. That's better in my opinion. Gives everyone a chance even if its small one, while the guys that have put in for years will get the tag. I like the 50/50 split of Utah. Montana seems very fair to me but I don't like the fact that you can't just buy a point making everyone's odds diminished for that year. IMO Nevada has the best and fairest system of all. The points are squared for every year that you have applied plus a chance for the current year. Someone with 2 years applying has 5 chances and someone applying for 10 years has 101 chances. That increases the odds for the guy that is persistent but still gives the newbies a shot.
 

In God We Trust

Very Active Member
Mar 10, 2011
805
0
Colorado
UH, you are right on if everyone on this forum and the rest of the hunting population in the west can afford to hunt and put in for points and tags in 5 or 6 different states for himself, his wife, and kid every year. I am fortunate enough to be able to put in for points in 4 States each season but not everyone has that luxury. What do you say to the guy that lives in Colorado and can only afford to hunt Colorado. If he is just starting the points game himself and his kid will wait 25+ years to draw one of the top units for deer or elk in the state. Here is how I would set this up. Allot 90% of a states tags to residents, let residents use a bonus point system that allows you to accumulate 5 points max and once you have 5 you have the same chance as everyone else that has 5 to draw a tag for said unit. Allot 10% of the tags to nonresidents and put them in a PP system, that way I as a non resident I will know when I have a legitimate chance of drawing a tag and I can plan my hunts between the states I put in for. Just so you don't screw the residents that have been accumulating points you give the guys with 20+ points 5 points to start in the new draw. You give the guys with 15-19 points 4 points in the new draw, the guys with 10-14 points 3 points in the new draw, and guys with 5-9 points 2 points in the new system. If you have less than 5 points in a current PP system you start at 0.
 
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