NR Sheep/Goats etc to 10%
- Thread starter WapitiBob
- Start date
Wow, no reduction of NR preference point revenue? Someone might want to drop Senator's Hicks & Barlow a note that they completely missed the boat on their fiscal impact projections by their failure to include decreased NR preference point revenue as part of the fiscal note...
"FISCAL NOTE
NON-ADMINISTRATIVE IMPACT
Anticipated Revenue (decrease):
GAME & FISH FUND
Source of revenue decrease:
FY 2016 FY 2017 FY 2018
$0 ($169,894) ($169,894)
The number of licenses available for purchase by nonresidents will be reduced as a result of this bill. Nonresident license fees are set at a higher rate than resident license fees and therefore will cause a reduction in total revenue generated. License fees for the species identified in the bill are established for residents and nonresidents respectively as follows; $112/$1,402 moose, $117/$2,252 bighorn sheep, $36/$240 ewe/lamb, $122/$2,152 mountain goat, $402/$2,502 bison any, $252/$1002 bison female, and $0.00/$0.00 grizzly bear.
Assumptions:
The Game and Fish Department is assuming that the license quotas available in 2014, (455 moose, 200 bighorn sheep, 4 ewe/lamb, 28 mountain goat, 90 bison any, 225 bison female, and 0 grizzly bear) will remain constant and that due to the high demand of these licenses 100% will be issued in line with the proposed resident/nonresident allocation."
Maybe the reduction in NR preference point revenue was purposely left out to get this quota change pushed through or perhaps they are just that naive. But I could be wrong on this myself as 1,317 NR's bought a sheep point last year for the first time most likely not realizing that it will take approximately 120 years before their point pool is in the running for a tag under the current NR tag allocation. If this bill is passed, it will take approx 388 years...
Horniac
coloradoshedhead
Active Member
That's a happy thought to start your day... I guess what is really needed is the age of each point holder to make some informed assumptions about fall out of point holders. Then if one is young enough, just starting out in a points chase, there may still be a game to be played, if you can stand the fees.
woodtick
Veteran member
They'll just jack up the tag prices for the NR's to make up the difference in lost revenue!! Didn't that crap happen in OR, ID and MT??!!
Fink
Veteran member
There ya go... Cut non resident quotas from 25% to 10%, and bump the price of the non-res tag up 5x.. Makes up for both loss of tag fees and loss of suckers in the point pool.. Wyoming G&F doesn't lose any revenue, and Wyoming residents still only pay $3 for their trophy tags! It's a win-win!They'll just jack up the tag prices for the NR's to make up the difference in lost revenue!! Didn't that crap happen in OR, ID and MT??!!
Oregon's NR quotas are so low, I am not sure how major of a revenue stream it is. But their price for a NR Sheep tag, $1,308.50, is not bad when compared to WY and a few others. Ya just have to buy that pesky $148.50 license to play. If you are a collector of species, you may want to pay the fees to get a Columbia Whitetail, Roosevelt Elk, etc., then youmay as well apply for sheep, Cali BH species or Rocky Mt. BH - no points games for sheep here, low but not impossible odds. Big sheep too. Last I checked MT Sheep tag was "only" $750, may have been recently raised, but remain a bargain for tag cost. Odds not so much. Don't apply in ID so have no idea.They'll just jack up the tag prices for the NR's to make up the difference in lost revenue!! Didn't that crap happen in OR, ID and MT??!!
woodtick
Veteran member
I quit the Oregon scene years ago!! Only had a couple years vested in it and decided to cut my losses and move on! And I was referring to tag increases all across the board not just sheep/goats, all 3 of those states lost major revenue when they hiked prices up, at least I can buy a combo tag in MT OTC since they did that!
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woodtick
Veteran member
I'm sure it's crossed there mind! Just figured we'd discuss the implications of what's probably coming down the pipeline in the near future!
I have been buying NR moose and sheep points for my son since he was 12. He has 10 points now at 21 years old. Based on the spreadsheet posted previously by Libidilatimmy he will be 148 years old before they get to his point pool to be eligible for a sheep tag and 107 years old before his point class is even eligible for a moose tag if this bill is passed!
As one of the other posters pointed out, what's to prevent WY from reducing the NR quota from 10% to say 5% after investing another couple of thousand in high priced worthless moose and sheep preference points?
The WY moose and sheep points game will become even more of a NR "fool's paradise" with the proposed quota reduction. What is that old saying; "Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me..."
Horniac
Iron Mike
Active Member
Yes woodtick. Its too bad it is getting to be a rich mans game to hunt NR any where in the west. I am not wealthy but I do pretty good and it kills me the way the fees are going. I have friends alost every year that I invite to come out and hunt with me but cant spring for the NR fees. Oregon also just tried to almost double the resident tag fees but the outcry was to big. Hell if you are a young family of four just getting your feet under you its about impossible to pay for all your licence and tag fees even as a resident here in my state.They'll just jack up the tag prices for the NR's to make up the difference in lost revenue!! Didn't that crap happen in OR, ID and MT??!!
How are we going to keep this hunting tradition going in this country if the resident and none resident fees keep skyrocketing?
laxwyo
Very Active Member
I think we can keep our hunting tradition alive by hunting what's available in our backyard first and then hunting what's available other places. I know everyone wants a big ole moose or ram but I think it's unfair to give any of these to out of staters. If you live in bird country, become a bird hunter. If you live in walleye country, enjoy walleye fishing. If killing big elk is that much a priority, move somewhere that has elk. I don't see how anyone thinks they are entitled to a few of wyoming's sheep when they live 1500 miles away and throw a few bucks to our state.
I know NR pay a lot of money to the GF and bring tons of money to the state. That's fine when you're talking about elk and deer region hunting in areas that can sustain more than the resident population of hunters. It's not ok when you're talking about a very limited resource like moose, sheep and mountain goats. Giving even one of these tags to a NR at the expense of a resident is ludicrous.
This is just my opinion and I've been wrong before.
I know NR pay a lot of money to the GF and bring tons of money to the state. That's fine when you're talking about elk and deer region hunting in areas that can sustain more than the resident population of hunters. It's not ok when you're talking about a very limited resource like moose, sheep and mountain goats. Giving even one of these tags to a NR at the expense of a resident is ludicrous.
This is just my opinion and I've been wrong before.
woodtick
Veteran member
If I was a betting man I would bet within 10 years over half the people that are hunting out of state now won't be able to anymore!! I've really had to sit back and reevaluate my approach to many of these states. OR and MT got the axe several years ago and WY is on the chopping block. I'm trying to figure hunts that I can draw sooner than later so I can get the hell out of their system. The sad thing about all of this is my kids won't get to experience hardly any of the stuff that I'm doing now. Only UT, NV and AZ were states that I got into the point system early in when I was a teen so I'll just bide my time with them and hunt OTC or easy draw hunts til I can't afford to anymore!!
Sad thing is I've read two different magazine articles this week talkin about if you haven't started buying points in western states you need to before its to late!!!! Seriously it was to late 10 years ago in most these states!!
woodtick
Veteran member
I'm totally with you on this, the reason I've been applying in other states is the draw odds of obtaining a tag for these "once in a lifetime" creatures in my home state is about as unlikely as any in the west. It's forced to look at new options, so no your not in the wrong here at all!! Unfortunately every state has caused the same problem for is resident hunters!!
Halo
New Member
I'm a non-resident with 14 moose and sheep points and I hate to complain about Wyoming, I have drawn some good tags and enjoyed many hunts there but also left many of my hard earned dollars there. The moose, sheep & goat odds in my home state are long, due to some extent I'm sure by the fact there is no non-resident limit at all. My Thought is though when someone starts building points its like entering into a contract and when the rules are completely changed late in the game its not right. It's like making the last payment on your truck and the bank saying "oh you have only been making payments on the drivers side of the truck, you need to start making payments on the passengers side now". I think states should have to offer to buy the points back and or grandfather in the current point holders and only have major changes affect new applicants. Unfortunately I don't see that happening and it will come down to politics and the almighty dollar and non-residents don't get to vote. It would not be the first time I got the rug jerked out from under me as a non-resident and likely wont be the last, It's just a little disheartening as I planed to start applying my kids for points in Wyoming this year but I just cant see that happening now.
dan maule
Veteran member
kentuckyhunter
Member
laxwyo
Very Active Member
Alabama
Veteran member
That's fine if they live on your or other resident's private land. We are all residents of the United States of America and public land is OUR resource. Wildlife is a collective resource that should be shared by all.