Is it really DIY when you assemble a team or have some one else spot for you?

[tim]

I have been reading Eastmans Hunting Journal and I am curious as to others opinions on a certain subject.

A few months back there was an article about a gentleman who shot a really nice buck and he was bragging about not using a guide service. But this gentleman assembled one heck of a team to hunt. The gentleman never originally spotted the buck, someone else did. The day of killing the buck the gentleman did not spot the buck some one else did. He just pulled the trigger when showed the buck by a team mate.

You also read about stories where someone gets a text and the animal is already spotted, you show up and pull the trigger.

I personally have no problem with this, but what is the difference between this and a guided hunt? I see other hunters putting guided hunts down, but personally Do it yourself, to me means just that. do it yourself. What am I missing?

Having a animal showed to you buy a team mate or a guide, What is the difference?

I am home with the flu, today so a little bored.

 

[okielite]

My guess is the difference is money exchanging hands for the service provided. That is what makes hunting with your friends different than hunting with an outfitter IMO.

 

[Doe Nob]

I think the hate on Guided hunts is a lot of "green" talk. Same as hating on auction tags. I can't afford it so they shouldn't do it. Whaaaaaaaa.

Who cares either way. A lot of the satisfaction from hunting comes from the effort you put in. Shoot a 190 inch muley close to the road driving into the unit on opening day is not as satisfying as a 170 that you hiked a few miles in and camped out on. So guided or not, helped by freinds or not, if you put in the time and the work, you are worthy of that trophy. If you don't put in any work, you are not. Earning it makes it worthwhile.

My spot and stalk archery antelope dink is the trophy I'm probably proudest of because I hunted so hard to make that happen. More so than my P&Y muleys.

Hunting is not and should not be a "competitive" sport. Its about you vs. the landscape and the wildlife. Not you vs. your buddy or some guys in a magazine. If you want to get in a dick measuring contest, take up golf or 3D shooting or sporting clays.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

I have a little different take on this. My definition of a guided hunt is that not all guided hunts are the same. I have gone on guided hunts and have one booked for next year. For me they provide a way to get into wilderness country that I can not hunt any other way. I am 73 and really cannot backpack into these areas anymore. I have done probably 30+ wilderness big game hunts and to me this is the ultimate experience. A guided hunt on a big ranch using trucks or atvs to get to the area you are hunting is just not the same.

I view the example cited of having spotters find your trophy and they do all the work as just not my cup of tea. Maybe not guided in the strict definition, but pretty close. Money might not change hands, but I'll bet there are lots of other things that do.

 

[Hilltop]

To me the difference is the camaraderie with friends... I truly enjoy helping other hunters and am elated when they find success that I helped them with. My hope is that maybe some of those I help will do that down the line for someone else. It is a great feeling when you harvest an animal completely solo but it is even more fun to me when I can share it with good friends or family. I would hate to think others are critical of people trying to help others have a successful hunt and promote hunting for the future.

 

[In God We Trust]

I agree with Hilltop. My brother and I hunt together on probably half of our tags. If I am not glassing for him then he is glassing for me. It is true we are more successful this way. He is going to draw an elk tag with 9 points here in Colorado this year and I am going along to glass with him on the hunt. I see your point that if you have a three man team together then it isn't much different then being guided. I suppose the only difference is you are with family and friends instead of paying a stranger. You have to think that on a DIY hunt with a team of friends or family the hunter is doing his own scouting and glassing. Not just depending on someone he or she paid to do all of the work and show up at an area he has never seen.
I saw a posting on another forum not too long ago. The poster brought up your point as well as aerial scouting, long range rigs and other things that make hunters more successful now. Especially on trophy animals. I tend to agree that we as hunters have evolved in the way we hunt due to progress and technology which has tipped the scale in our favor. Think of how many trophy bucks and bulls are killed now because of long range rigs, new scouting methods, better glass, and other advances in technology. Most big bucks and bulls would walk off into the sunset 15 years ago but now they are being shot at 600+ yards from a opposite ridge. I am not saying it is wrong but at some point State Game Agencies are going to have to limit technology or they will have to cut tag numbers. With mule deer numbers trending on the decline for the foreseeable future and maybe forever the states will have to tip the scale back in the favor of the deer or we will see more and more young mule deer bucks breeding does because we continue to kill the older bucks off. As numbers show there are a lot less mature mule deer bucks then 20+ years ago. Sorry for the long winded answer. This is a good subject and makes a guy think.

 

[CoHiCntry]

I've seen this trend too. Guy's assembling a "team" of glassers and scouters so they can get the biggest trophy possible. Like CC said... "it's not my cup of tea" but to each his own! I definitely don't put it in the same category as a guy who did it himself or with his buddy. Maybe the name should be changed from DIY to SOLO hunter??? To be honest though, I was on one of these hunts years ago when a family member drew a Utah Bookcliffs elk tag after a 15 year wait. Only difference is our "team" consisted of all family. There were 8 or 9 of us though. It was a great hunt to be a part of.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Guys don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that family & friends who help out are the same as the original example cited. I have killed lots of animals with the help of F & F and I have helped them do the same thing. I don't think its quite the same when someone has people scouting that they don't know and they aren't even in the area with them, as even close to what we are talking about.

 

[shootbrownelk]

Tim, the people you mentioned using a "Team" of spotters with cell phones or communication devices are going to be the same guys using drones to locate animals. Sooner or later the G&F depts. will have to intervene, too much technology is being used these days.

 

[tim]

Hunting is not and should not be a "competitive" sport. Its about you vs. the landscape and the wildlife. Not you vs. your buddy or some guys in a magazine. If you want to get in a dick measuring contest, take up golf or 3D shooting or sporting clays.

Tough call on this one. By definition can it be a sport with out competition? 5 of us here at home all hunt solo, but we all compare to see who shot what? friendly competition among friends. compition also makes one work harder and smarter and train harder, prepare better, etc. I personally need a little competition, even if it against my self to do better next year. To chase that one that got away, etc.



There are some great posts with lots of insight.

 

[hoshour]

Guys may brag about being a solo hunter as the only sense of hunting DIY but I don't agree. It is much more fun and rewarding to hunt with friends or family and I think that still qualifies. I have a friend and a couple of sons-in-law that I hunt with and believe me, if one of us tags out, we definitely consider it a DIY hunt.

I guess it's a spectrum from solo hunting on one end to showing up completely cold in a new area and having a guide point out an animal to shoot. What portion of the spectrum is still DIY? I don't think you can mark a clear spot, nor do I think it really matters.

Did a solo hunter that did a lot of scouting using Google Earth hunt solo? Not completely. How about the guy that got a heads-up on a good area, whether from the Eastmans' MRS or a guy he knows? Same thing. Did he make his own bow or rifle? I doubt it. Did he learn hunting from his dad or maybe get a new idea from a book or magazine?

You get the point. Almost nobody can claim that they had no help whatsoever. And, even if they didn't, so what?

Guys love to brag, but to me, the real pro is the guy that takes it in stride, whose satisfaction is mostly internal, who is quick to give credit to others and gives a big high-five anytime someone else meets their goal.

 

[packmule]

It's smart if the goal is to find a mature animal that's a good representation of what the area offers. Don't really care what people label it as.

 

[tim]

Like I said, I really don't care how you legally harvest your animal. I just question the do it yourself hunt that has 5 spotters all over the unit, gathering back at camp and talking about what they saw and then putting down guided hunts. I personally don't see the difference between the 2. But I don't hunt in states that you have to draw or have tough to get tags. the overwhelming vast majority of my hunts are just otc tags. So I am completely unexpierenced in these type of hunts.

So does it depend on the tag. An otc tag, why have a team. A once in a life time desert sheep tag in a state you have never hunted, get a team? is it part of the respect the tag thing?

I guess it also depends on the expierence you want?

 

[Elkoholic307]

Tim, the people you mentioned using a "Team" of spotters with cell phones or communication devices are going to be the same guys using drones to locate animals. Sooner or later the G&F depts. will have to intervene, too much technology is being used these days.

Rumor has it, the G&F Dept. is guilty of it also.

 

[packmule]

So does it depend on the tag. An otc tag, why have a team. A once in a life time desert sheep tag in a state you have never hunted, get a team? is it part of the respect the tag thing?

I guess it also depends on the expierence you want?

I think it's a respect the tag thing. I'd never get a team together for an OTC hunt unless others had already tagged and were going to stay for the long haul. A 10pt+ unit I knew nothing about I'd get a few guys together to have more eyes. The unit we normally hunt requires roughly that many points and 2 of us will tackle it. First year on it was the only year we really split up, but that's bc we needed to find 6 bucks for 2nd-4th. An OIL tag would be guided. If sheep, I'd try to see if the guide would be okay bringing a cpl buddies along who eat, sleep & breathe sheep hunting if not in a state they could do the guiding.

 

[lostinOregon]

I know a gentleman that lives in CO that drew the Henries buck tag with a few points. I see him every year as he is a good friend of my hunting partners. I told him I wanted to hear about his hunt and I personally couldn't imagine drawing that tag. That would be the ultimate tag for a Muley nut. I was shocked when he told me it was the worst hunt of his life. I then asked if he killed a deer or see any giants. He said he was successful and showed me a photo of a 191 inch Muley. I was confused to say the least. He told me that he hired a guide that used to work for utah fish and game and they hit the mountain with great expectations. He said that he couldn't believe the zoo that ensued. He said every hunter had a posse of 20 and if a buck was spotted it was a NASCAR race to get there because of radios and a lack of common courtesy. He said there was a very large buck spotted and ethics went out the window. People showed no respect and it made him sick. He is an older gentleman but he said he didn't sign up for that. I personally don't like posse hunting or the use of radios to call someone over. But I understand hunting with a group of friends and enjoying a once in a lifetime tag with your buddies.

Rich

 

[packmule]

Wondering if it's the same guide I'd want tagging along on a sheep hunt.

 

[ando_31]

I don't think there's anything wrong with hunting with friends or family who are lending their time and eyes. On the other hand I wouldn't find any personal gratification if I were to be "on call" waiting for someone to find me a shooter buck.

 

[In God We Trust]

Rumor has it, the G&F Dept. is guilty of it also.

How so? This makes me curious.

 

[In God We Trust]

In Colorado it is illegal to use radios or phones to direct a guy to an animal. It should be illegal in every state to get rid of the B.S referred to in the Henry Mountains hunt. This is why I like to hunt with one other guy or by myself on my hunts. The posse style hunt seems to cheapen it a little bit. Not to mention why draw a tag that is supposed to have low tag numbers and low pressure just to have each tag holder running around the woods with a half dozen or more guys finding his animal for him. A posse hunt is no different than hiring Doyle Moss and his gang. That is why it is best to hunt rough country in low profile units. The rough country scares most people away and the low profile aspect keeps the rest of the guys out.