Ethics question???

[go_deep]

Instead of taking over a different thread, I'm starting my own.
So here's the question.
Lets say you hunt in an area where the species of choice you hunt has a 30 day long season, and because of family, or work you traditionally hunt the last 10 days. 5 years goes by of camping in the same spot, hunting the same ridges, and draws, and something changes, and now you have to hunt the first 10 days. You pack in the day before opener, and hunter X is camped close to where you camp, but not right where you camp, and it's pretty obvious that hunter X has the intention of hunting the same area as you. Now after 5 years what you didn't know is hunter X has hunted the same area every year as you, just at a different time.
So what do you do?
Let's say their camp is empty, everyone is out scouting, so you can't talk to them to feel them out on if they'd be ok with you staying there.
You've been hunting here for 5 years too, do you have to move on because you showed up at a different time?
It's public land, why wouldn't you be able to camp where you normally do, and hunt the same area as normal?
Or better yet, your from out of state, and just traveled 15 hours, and hiked 5 hours, and now what? Even if you got a plan B, there is no time to implement it without wasting opening day.

Personally don't know that there is a right or wrong answer, just curious what other might do.

 

[Hilltop]

Depending on the size of the area, I would likely go with plan B, even if it meant wasting a day. I have no desire to hunt in close proximity to others as it would hurt your hunt and theirs.

 

[AKaviator]

Like you said, there may not really be a right or wrong answer, but here's my thoughts...

If it's public land then there is no real right to exclusivity or expectation of it. However, if they were set up on the spot first, I would probably yield to that. If I had the opportunity I would likely make a friendly visit with them and see if you could work out a strategy that would work for both of you to hunt the area. That doesn't always work though.

It's disappointing to be beat to a spot. It's also disappointing to be moved in on once you're set up. There is always at least two different perspectives to the scenario, try to look at both.

I do think that a respectful, cooperative approach with them is a good first step. If that didn't work, I'd yield and find a different area or time, if at all possible. But that's just me.

 

[BuzzH]

Here's how I've handled this crap in the past.

First thing I do is to be UP FRONT, from the start, about my expectations when I take someone to a spot.

If I really care about the spot, I typically don't tell anyone, I hunt it and it stays that way...no exceptions.

If its a spot I hunt, that I would prefer the person I take there doesn't hunt again, I tell them so.

If its just a spot I hunt once in a while or sort of a generic spot, I don't care if they bring friends or go anytime they want. I usually let them know that too.

That being said, its purely a chicken-chit move to horn in on a spot, public land or not, that you've been shown. I've had some great spots ruined by guys with a big mouth by having to take their uncle, dad, brother, cousin, work friend, etc.

I've been fortunate to have some close friends show me some very excellent hunting on public land, not ONE time, as in never, have I went back without being invited back or calling way ahead of time to ask them if it was OK to hunt there. I also never take anyone with me either when I go back after asking first. That's how spots get ruined and IMO, its taking a chance that whoever you may take will have the same ethics.

This stuff isn't rocket science, its called courtesy and being a decent human being. Something very severely lacking these days, and it irritates the hell out of me when people say, "well, its public land, there should be no expectations that they wont go back". Not true, and I've lost good friends over hunting areas and that's just the way it is. I have no problem never again talking to some sorry SOB that doesn't have the common sense to keep his lip zipped about a hunting area I show them and stay out if they aren't invited.

I honor their spots, and by damn they can honor mine or hit the road...simple as that.

The sad thing is, if they paid attention and actually LEARNED from the areas I show them, they'd realize there are dozens and dozens of places that may be even better. Why not go look for your own area instead of taking the lazy way out and pounding the spots they've been shown?

Its just sad the way some people are.

 

[go_deep]

Here's how I've handled this crap in the past.

First thing I do is to be UP FRONT, from the start, about my expectations when I take someone to a spot.

If I really care about the spot, I typically don't tell anyone, I hunt it and it stays that way...no exceptions.

If its a spot I hunt, that I would prefer the person I take there doesn't hunt again, I tell them so.

If its just a spot I hunt once in a while or sort of a generic spot, I don't care if they bring friends or go anytime they want. I usually let them know that too.

That being said, its purely a chicken-chit move to horn in on a spot, public land or not, that you've been shown. I've had some great spots ruined by guys with a big mouth by having to take their uncle, dad, brother, cousin, work friend, etc.

I've been fortunate to have some close friends show me some very excellent hunting on public land, not ONE time, as in never, have I went back without being invited back or calling way ahead of time to ask them if it was OK to hunt there. I also never take anyone with me either when I go back after asking first. That's how spots get ruined and IMO, its taking a chance that whoever you may take will have the same ethics.

This stuff isn't rocket science, its called courtesy and being a decent human being. Something very severely lacking these days, and it irritates the hell out of me when people say, "well, its public land, there should be no expectations that they wont go back". Not true, and I've lost good friends over hunting areas and that's just the way it is. I have no problem never again talking to some sorry SOB that doesn't have the common sense to keep his lip zipped about a hunting area I show them and stay out if they aren't invited.

I honor their spots, and by damn they can honor mine or hit the road...simple as that.

The sad thing is, if they paid attention and actually LEARNED from the areas I show them, they'd realize there are dozens and dozens of places that may be even better. Why not go look for your own area instead of taking the lazy way out and pounding the spots they've been shown?

Its just sad the way some people are.

BuzzH
I'm not asking if you showed them the area.
On another post they asked if you put your camp out in the open so others can see, or hide it so people don't steal anything from your camp. A couple people mentioned that they place it visible so it deters others from hunting there.
This is the scenario of you both found the area on your own, hunted it for years, but now happen to be there at the same time. Or someone new just happens to get there before you. You found it on your own, it's not official your area because it's public land, but why should you yield a hunting spot that you've worked hard for years to figure out?

If someone showed you a great area, it goes to the grave with you, period.

 

[Fink]

Kind of a tricky one.. A few years ago, I hiked back into a drainage about 4 miles, found the area I wanted to hunt, and set up camp. The next day, I went just a few hundred yards up a feeder creek, and stumbled across a big outfitter camp that was currently empty. Since it was empty, and there were elk in the area, we stayed and hunted. After maybe 4-5 days, the outfitter was packing in stuff for hunter that were coming in a few days later. I talked to them for a while, seemed to be nice enough guys.. 2 days before their hunters came in, I went and talked to them, and told them the exact area I'd be hunting in, expecting they'd stay out of it, and hunt the thousands of acres all around it. Day 1 of their hunt, they pushed right up the draw I was in, and pushed out all the elk..

In this instance, there was plenty of area for 2 or 3 parties to hunt the drainage, and have plenty of elbow room, but, you can't all hunt on top of each other...

In your case, if this was really the only area I knew, drove 15 hours to hunt it, and the area was big enough to support the hunters, I'd be inclined to wait around and talk to the guys when they got back to camp, and figure out a way for everyone to be happy.
If it was a small area, with limited spots, I'd move on and figure something else out somewhere else.

 

[Daubs]

I have run in to situations like this a lot, big game and waterfowl hunting. And have heard many horror stories about confrontations, arguments, even fights. Strangely it's waterfowlers who seem to argue and fight the most.

I've had guys stand in the reeds 50 yards from me on the marsh, and pass shoot birds circling my decoy spread. It's infuriating, and frustrating...not much you can do...so we walked over and asked them to join us. They turned out to be n00bs and didn't really understand hunting etiquette.

Always remember, we are talking about public hunting here. First come, first served.

In the situation you described I would wait around and talk with the guys when they get back. Explain that you normally hunt later, but had to hunt at this time...and do your best to find a middle ground / solution. Most times people are pretty agreeable. If they are ass-hats, then it's probably best to move on to a different location. You could beat them to the spots (get up earlier), but they will probably just escalate the situation, and try to run game out of the area.

Good luck.

 

[Gr8bawana]

Suppose the roles were revered and you were the one who had hunted the spot first part of the season. What would you want the latecomers to do? If someone is already there, no matter how many years you have hunted the spot first so I would go and find some other place to hunt. It would be the polite thing to do.That's how it goes on public land.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

One important thing that is not mentioned...how hunters in each camp? If there are only a couple in each, there probably isn't any reason they can't work together and co-exist. If one is a big camp, then that probably wouldn't work.

 

[go_deep]

Suppose the roles were revered and you were the one who had hunted the spot first part of the season. What would you want the latecomers to do? If someone is already there, no matter how many years you have hunted the spot first so I would go and find some other place to hunt. It would be the polite thing to do.That's how it goes on public land.

Hopefully I'm never in the situation to have to decide what to do, and as of yet I really don't have any super great spots that I wouldn't want to give up. But if the area was large enough, I'd tell them to hunt away.

 

[Horsenhike]

Question is far too vague for me to answer.

 

[ando_31]

It is public land. Hunt it. If you're talking about hunting a small area then you know you'd be better somewhere else. If you're hunting an area that can't be covered in one day, then hunt away. If you get to worried about stepping on toes, you'll eventually have nowhere to hunt. Obviously you want to keep your distance from the other hunters...in certain instances you can use the other hunters to your advantage. The beauty of public land is that everyone has the same right and chance at the animals that live there.

 

[LCH]

This is an almost daily occurrence for folks who hunt public land in the Midwest. Granted, you don't typically have to backpack into these spots, but I often have to go to plan B, C, or even D depending on whether there are hunters on the parcels I want to hunt.

Some guys will just park next to your truck and barge into the same 40 acre woodlot you're hunting. I try to do unto others as I'd have them do unto me.

 

[swampokie]

I have run in to situations like this a lot, big game and waterfowl hunting. And have heard many horror stories about confrontations, arguments, even fights. Strangely it's waterfowlers who seem to argue and fight the most.

I've had guys stand in the reeds 50 yards from me on the marsh, and pass shoot birds circling my decoy spread. It's infuriating, and frustrating...not much you can do...so we walked over and asked them to join us. They turned out to be n00bs and didn't really understand hunting etiquette.

Always remember, we are talking about public hunting here. First come, first served.

In the situation you described I would wait around and talk with the guys when they get back. Explain that you normally hunt later, but had to hunt at this time...and do your best to find a middle ground / solution. Most times people are pretty agreeable. If they are ass-hats, then it's probably best to move on to a different location. You could beat them to the spots (get up earlier), but they will probably just escalate the situation, and try to run game out of the area.

Good luck.

I agree that waterfowl hunters are the worst. I work on a primarily waterfowl hunting wma. I've refereed fist fights on several occasions. They skybust,homestead,set up fake blinds to hold a spot and anything else they can do to make my job that much harder. There is no camping on the area so they try to sleep in their trucks to claim spots. They are far and away the wildest fanatics in the hunting kingdom.

 

[siwulat]

This is an almost daily occurrence for folks who hunt public land in the Midwest. Granted, you don't typically have to backpack into these spots, but I often have to go to plan B, C, or even D depending on whether there are hunters on the parcels I want to hunt.

Some guys will just park next to your truck and barge into the same 40 acre woodlot you're hunting. I try to do unto others as I'd have them do unto me.

This. Most reasonable folks will give people a little room if they see someone is already in there. Like others are said, cooperating with others in the area is helpful too.

 

[480/277]

Someone got there first, I'd go somewhere else.

 

[hoshour]

I'd either leave and find another spot or wait until they got back and ask where they planned to hunt. Like was said by others, it depends on how big the area is and how many hunters they have.

If it's that popular, the better option would be to get there by the evening two days before opening day to stake your spot and scout the day before the opener, not just for deer but for where other hunters are. They'll either be in camp where you can talk to them or on the hill where you can glass them. You might lose a hunting day for lack of vacation time, but at least you don't lose opening day.

When I hunted mulies last year, our tent was clearly visible to anyone glassing the mountain and yet we had hunters walk up within 200 yards of camp and on the hillside across the canyon maybe 3/4 or a a mile away I counted 7 other hunters. We were in a roadless area, but only a mile from the road. Sucks, but that's public land hunting unless it's an area and season with very few tags, really nasty country or you've hiked more than a couple miles off the road.

 

[kidoggy]

only answer I can come up with is, give other hunters the space you would HOPE , they would give you. may waste your day , but at least you will know you did the right thing

 

[ColoradoV]

I dont think there are many places if any in colorado that you can get "away" from other hunters anymore.. It is just a reality of hunting and I am not surprised if I see hunters just about every day I am out. Some are surprised when I walk up and say hello and see what they are about.

Tent placement does not matter to me. Camper, hunter, hippie, photographer, who knows a tent has no effect on how I hunt. Unless a guy puts one up where animals as well as humans can see it - as tents do change animal patterns as well as their human counterpart...

I talk to folks (hunter, hippie, or camper) and unless after a specific animal ask them what way they are hunting, wish them luck, and go the opposite way (killed my best bull with a longbow this way). If I am after a specific animal I explain the time I have put in, show pics from months to year (s) past, wish them luck, and let them know that unless incapacitated I am hunting that animal every single day until the season ends or someone gets him. Pressure is inevitable and make it part of my expectations in a hunt.

Other hunters are my peers - made many friends while out hunting as I figure hell if this guy ended up the same place as me we have to have something in common. Just like in life most other hunters are cool guys but every once and awhile you do run into a peach.

 

[JimP]

I wouldn't put a camp right on top of the other hunter that came in first but a ways away if it was a large drainage that you are hunting. I would also walk over to his camp when he was there and talk to him to see the area that he plans on hunting and then go somewhere else just so that I wouldn't disturb him. There are lots of areas to hunt and I go on the first come basis.

Who knows they might be hunting low and your plans are to hunt high.

But as you said there is no real answer to your question until you find yourself in that situation.