Elk rifle recommendations
- Thread starter MtnBuck
- Start date
Mountain10mm
New Member
So I've been doing more research. If anything I write seems suspect let me know.
I got to handle a T3 lite 300 WM and I liked it. The bolt was very smooth, with a short throw, and it felt good in my hands. Stock was just ok, but better than I expected. I still need to handle a T3x,, Vanguard, and X-Bolt.
One thought that has crossed my mind is that it would be nice to have a removable muzzle brake. Muzzle brake for the range, and thread protector for the field. I don't like using a muzzle brake in the field, because I don't always have time to put on hearing protection. I do realize that I will need to double check POI after pulling off the brake.
I see some of the X-bolts come with a muzzle brake and thread protector from the factory. The light weight X-Bolts in 300 WM and 7 RM come in at 6 lbs 13 ounces which will work for me. Looking at the Tikka website it seems that the neither the T3 or T3x are available with a muzzle brake?
Almost every review for the T3 accuracy is excellent. Really impressive. I haven't seen as many comments on the X-Bolt so I'm not sure what accuracy is typical?
So right now the muzzle brake makes me leans towards the X-Bolt and the accuracy and price makes me lean towards the T3. What do you guys think?
I got to handle a T3 lite 300 WM and I liked it. The bolt was very smooth, with a short throw, and it felt good in my hands. Stock was just ok, but better than I expected. I still need to handle a T3x,, Vanguard, and X-Bolt.
One thought that has crossed my mind is that it would be nice to have a removable muzzle brake. Muzzle brake for the range, and thread protector for the field. I don't like using a muzzle brake in the field, because I don't always have time to put on hearing protection. I do realize that I will need to double check POI after pulling off the brake.
I see some of the X-bolts come with a muzzle brake and thread protector from the factory. The light weight X-Bolts in 300 WM and 7 RM come in at 6 lbs 13 ounces which will work for me. Looking at the Tikka website it seems that the neither the T3 or T3x are available with a muzzle brake?
Almost every review for the T3 accuracy is excellent. Really impressive. I haven't seen as many comments on the X-Bolt so I'm not sure what accuracy is typical?
So right now the muzzle brake makes me leans towards the X-Bolt and the accuracy and price makes me lean towards the T3. What do you guys think?
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I've never heard anyone cuss the accuracy of a Browning. I've owned 2 A bolts in my life and both shot sub MOA without much load work shooting Nosler Accubonds. I have also heard all good about the accuracy of the Tikka's and have owned 2 of them that both shot sub MOA. I don't think you'll go wrong either way. I sold my Tikkas because I have learned I prefer a tang or 3 position safety. They were not T3's but the older 595 or 695 models, can't remember the numbers. One was a 223 the other a 270.
Have had 2 A-bolts (270 and 280) and two Tikkas (both SS T3 lites in 270), all shot very well. Had a friend get a X-bolt in 30-06, few years back, it was one of the most accurate factory rifles I've ever seen. Small sample size, but it's what I have had experience with.
I hate recoil. At the range, I use a shoulder pad, so would not be concerned with the non threaded Tikka. For the price and performance, the Tikka T3 is attractive, but the X-bolt is arguably a "nicer" gun. The T3X does close the "nicer" gun gap from what I've seen. Not really a wrong choice IMO.
I hate recoil. At the range, I use a shoulder pad, so would not be concerned with the non threaded Tikka. For the price and performance, the Tikka T3 is attractive, but the X-bolt is arguably a "nicer" gun. The T3X does close the "nicer" gun gap from what I've seen. Not really a wrong choice IMO.
xtreme
Very Active Member
One of my A-bolts shoots 1/2 inch the other 1/4 inch. I don't reload but do stock the ability for security reason. Both my A-bolts use BOSS and that is key. I really don't see how a Tikka is going to beat that or even match it. I have Remington 700s and Savages, they won't begin to shoot with the A-bolt and I can only imagine an X-bolt is better. Just find the gun that fits you best
Umpqua Hunter
Veteran member
I'd consider a 300 WSM, nearly identical ballistics to your 300 WSM, but make sure it is a true short action so you take advantage of the weight savings of the short action. We've killed a lot of elk with my 300 WSM.
I have always been a big fan of .30-06 for elk. Shot all my rifle elk with one and have been primarily using that caliber since I was 12. Last year on a whim I purchased a Savage 111 Lightweight Hunter in .30-06 (topped with Leopold scope). I was not really planning on using it during the 2015 season but took it along with my Ruger .300WinMag to Montana last season as a back up gun. I spent the first couple days toting around the Ruger. After a couple days I decided to carry the Savage. I never picked the Ruger back up that whole trip. The Ruger is not really that heavy, but that lightweight Savage made it feel like a box of bricks. It was a delight to carry. I never did shoot an elk with it last year (so I can't opine on that part), but I did end up taking a nice whitetail buck with it later in the year here in MN and it did the job just fine. I did not find the recoil a problem and loved the trigger. I'll be taking it back home to WY this year.
xtreme
Very Active Member
When I first started elk hunting a long time ago, the 30-06 was capable of killing elk. I remember when I hunted with a 308, I felt so inferior with my friends using 30-06s.
JimP
Administrator
I have been watching a thread on a African hunting forum discussing the old .30-06 and it is running around 90/10 in favor of it on a African plains game hunts. Some of these animals can reach 2000 lbs on the hoof. Here is a link to a PH's Safari web page and take a look at what it says in blue as the "Best all around caliber for hunting in Africa"
http://www.huntinginafrica.co.za/more-info/best-caliber-in-africa/
http://www.huntinginafrica.co.za/more-info/best-caliber-in-africa/
That's a good read, Jim.
The odd six is definitely proven. I've taken a handful of Elk with a .270 as well. All one shot stops. The reason I'll be getting a 7RM or maybe another 300WM this time is that I like the extra insurance of the magnums for longer or maybe imperfect shots. Like quartering away or hitting the shoulder dead on. Just for reference I'm going to look up the energy of my old .270 round at 300 yards as it always did well. On a related note what's the furthest you guys feel the 30.06 is good for (broadside and quartering) provided that the shooter does his part?
The odd six is definitely proven. I've taken a handful of Elk with a .270 as well. All one shot stops. The reason I'll be getting a 7RM or maybe another 300WM this time is that I like the extra insurance of the magnums for longer or maybe imperfect shots. Like quartering away or hitting the shoulder dead on. Just for reference I'm going to look up the energy of my old .270 round at 300 yards as it always did well. On a related note what's the furthest you guys feel the 30.06 is good for (broadside and quartering) provided that the shooter does his part?
I'd suggest the max range any rifle is good for is based on the bullet selected, assuming the shooter is capable. After bullet, I look to the altitude I will use it at. For me, the max range is based off the min velocity the bullet is recommended for, with a 5-10% cushion, for broadside shots at the altitude I'll hunt, or 600 yards, which ever is less. Most of the time it is 600 yards. Looking to bullet impact velocity gives me better info than some of the old footpounds rules, in terms of the bullet expanding, creating a decent wound channel, and actually transferring some energy.
So in my opinion, the answer will vary quite a bit, based on bullet selection/altitude. For elk, I lean towards a SD in my bullet of around .260+, which accounts for the quartering shot, so shot angle is not a dominant variable in my calculus... With the advent of ultra LR hunting, there are more bullets available that open at lower velocity than ever before. The bullet my LR rifle likes is rated for a min. of 1,600 fps as I recall. My LR set up is a .280 with a Barnes 145gr. LRX at a MV of over 3,000. The SD is not quite .260, its .257, but the Barnes gives me confidence to penetrate, due to it's construction.
My two cents anyway.
So in my opinion, the answer will vary quite a bit, based on bullet selection/altitude. For elk, I lean towards a SD in my bullet of around .260+, which accounts for the quartering shot, so shot angle is not a dominant variable in my calculus... With the advent of ultra LR hunting, there are more bullets available that open at lower velocity than ever before. The bullet my LR rifle likes is rated for a min. of 1,600 fps as I recall. My LR set up is a .280 with a Barnes 145gr. LRX at a MV of over 3,000. The SD is not quite .260, its .257, but the Barnes gives me confidence to penetrate, due to it's construction.
My two cents anyway.
wy-tex
Veteran member
300 wsm is awesome caliber for elk. 7 1/2 year old cow bison fell to one shot in January. She only made it about 75 yards before expiring and they are notorious for taking a lot of lead. Lots of reloading options and the short action will save you weight. Lots of one shot kills on elk with my 300 wsm, Sako A7 tecomate. Got it on sale at Cabelas and with the NRA membership sale they had going on it cost me $750.
stevevan
Active Member
All great suggestions. Just use a premium bullet and you're good to go. Personally, I've had great success on a number of good bulls with my 7mm Remmy and a premium 160gr. bullet. My rifle prefers 160 gr. Nosler Partitions which have always performed exceptionally with good expansion and penetration. Just what the doctor ordered.
Tim, I like your scientific approach. Why did you go with the 145s instead of the 168s?
Thanks wy-tex. Great price you got on a very nice rifle. I like the 300wsm, but if I stick with a 300 it'll be the Win Mag due to ammo availability.
Thanks wy-tex. Great price you got on a very nice rifle. I like the 300wsm, but if I stick with a 300 it'll be the Win Mag due to ammo availability.
Mostly I wanted a bit more velocity than I'd get with 168's in a 280, even though my max range is 600. Another factor is I prefer a lead or polymer tip, for that extra assurance upon impact, over a very small HP like a Berger, especially for potential lower velocity impacts. I also have a genetic predisposition to go against the crowd, ie: the Berger's sudden popularity, I'm a work in progress...
A little extra velocity helps assure bullet perfromance and I am not sold on the lighter Berger offerings for elk for my 280. If it could send a heavier Berger fast enough, fine, but I lack the case capacity. I intentionally wanted to find a SD of around .260+ in a bullet I could launch close to 3,000fps. Sorta of a sweet spot to be fast enough to have some advantages (terminal ballistics/drop/wind) and not be too hard on the barrel or my shoulder.
I tested the Barnes 145's, 154 gr. Inter bonds, 150 gr. LR Accubonds, and Swift 150gr Scirocco's. The gun actually shot the 154 gr. Interbonds best, .3 - .4 moa, but bullet availability scared me, so the Barnes shot the next best, .6 ish moa. So I got 80 rounds loaded and off I went. I used a Superior Ammo test box. They are one of several custom and semi-custom loaders. http://www.superiorammo.com/ The DoubleTap is great ammo too, and not much more than factory. http://www.doubletapammo.net/
The gun also loves some old Federal factory 140 and 160 Accubonds I bought many years ago. I've shot a 280 a bunch and always favored a Nosler 150 gr partition, as I kept it under 400 yards, but their velocity envelope was right on the line for me at 600. I'd happily use the 140 or 160 Accubonds, and may very well try a box of the DoubleTap Ammo in 160 AB rated for 2,900 fps, if it made 2,850 on the Chrony I'd be OK. I'd just need to verify their actual velocity at the altitudes I hunt to make sure I have a margin of error. The rifle is just a year old, so am still playing around. Don't handload right now.
I have a factory Rem M700 in 280 that loves 140 Fusions, .5 moa all day long, and I have no complaints with that ammo on Deer sized game to 400 or so. If you like data driven decision making, here is a great source for quite a few topics, I sure have learned from this guy. He is all about accuracy shooting, so does not delve into terminal ballistics that I have seen, otherwise , good stuff.
http://precisionrifleblog.com/ Terminal ballistics are a critical part of hunting, often ignored, essentially what happens to the bullet upon impact. There are quite a number of other sites too, accuracy-tech among them.
It's fun stuff.
I dropped by Cabela's yesterday and checked out the X-bolt Hell's Canyon Speed. Not sure who comes up with these silly names, but it's a super nice rifle. The only thing that really made me pause is that the barrel is pencil thin. The removable muzzle brake would be nice. I also looked at the Tikka T3 again and the T3x. The Tikka has a thicker barrel and slightly smoother bolt operation. The X-Bolt HCS ($1000 rifle) has a much nicer stock imo and better balance. Decisions, decisions. In the mean time I've been shooting my AR for practice and I'm going to pull out the .243 this week for some longer range shooting.
Thanks for all the info. I've been checking out the reviews on the ELD-X the last few days. An interesting bullet design to say the least.
I agree about the ELD-X. May have the best of all attributes. I've had excellent performance with their standard interlok bullets, then addin polimer tip to start expansion, very hi BC and low advertised min velocity and you probably have a winner. Possibly the advantages of a Berger with less of a chance of a HP design failing to open and penciling through. But want to see actual results first and realize any bullet can "fail" as they say.
Tikka has unveiled it's newest upgrade - T3X superlight - I am working with one now in 7mm Rem Mag - Stainless Fluted barrel Synthetic stock MUCH improved Better recoil pad (but I still choose the Limbsaver Gen 2) I've yet to find a Tikka, ANY Tikka, with a trigger that doesn't break at or near 3 lbs - This one, out of the box with not even mounts broke the scale at near EXACTLY 6 lbs - 24.5" barrel (if you can't get the shot done with that length barrel then go ahead and put a longer barrel on it ... and a wheel too) $749 at Sportsman's Warehouse - I use the Mountain Tactical picatinney rail $60 - Any rings you chose (I use the Leupold Riflemans, cheap/lightweight/stronger than most give them credit for, never caused me any grief whatsoever) - My PERSONAL opinion is that if you can't kill an elk or deer with 10x at the high end it's too far- I use Leupold VX3i - you can be all in for very close to $1000 and go hunting - If you don't handload, a lot of guys are saying that Hornady SuperPerformance 162 SST has been shooting great in "most" Tikka's - Oh, extra magazines can be had for $40 nowadays, I've got a dozen in L and M sitting on the bench now