Baiting Lawsuit Continues

JimP

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The problem is that we need to get used to this type of stuff. There are a lot more of those folks out there than there are of us.

Like here in Colorado on the wolf vote. Even if it doesn't pass this year it will be on the ballot the next time and the next time and the next time until it does pass. That is what happened with MJ. It was on two or three other ballots before it finally passed and now we have to live with it.
 

BuzzH

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Apr 15, 2015
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I don't agree with the lawsuit moving forward. I cant speak to Idaho, but Wyoming does a good job of not allowing bear baiting in high use grizzly bear areas. There are also measures in place on how to handle a situation where a grizzly starts hitting baits intended for black bears.

I also agree that grizzlies are recovered to the point that a limited hunting season and state control are appropriate at this time.

What I don't agree with is the assertions made that hunting a small number of grizzly bears is going to save livestock, wildlife and put the fear into them. Pretty tough for a bear to "gain a little fear of man" when they're shot and killed. You didn't teach that bear anything other than how to get him/her self dead.

There is also an assumption, and a huge one, that hunters are going to target problem bears, not likely. If I were to draw a grizzly tag, I wouldn't want the experience to be shooting a grizzly on the edge of town raiding a chicken coop or feasting on a bloated black angus. I'd want it to be a backcountry experience targeting a mature old boar. The exact bear you shouldn't kill if you're using the logic of controlling the bear population. Fact is, you'd be doing the exact opposite by killing a large, dominate boar that defends a large home range, kills other bears, etc.

I'm fine with grizzly management but some of the arguments for a season are out in the weeds.
 

taskswap

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Jul 9, 2018
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That's not been my experience. I know a guy who lived in Alaska until recently who was happy to tell you all about the specific revolver he carried and the loads he used because he had to run grizzlies off his or a neighbor's porch several times a month.

I'm with BuzzH on this one. Bears don't hang out in packs enough to watch each other get shot and thus "learn to avoid humans." A habituated bear is a problem bear, and a hunting license isn't going to let you set up a blind at the end of your street.

A dead bear tells no tales. If you wanted to "teach bears a lesson" you'd be better off advocating preemptive use of bear spray.
 

JimP

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In most areas grizzlies will avoid people. However here in the lower 48 they have learned to associate the sound of gunfire with a free meal. Even in some areas of Alaska they have learned that when a shot goes off that there is a free meal laying on the ground just waiting for them to come and get it.
 

Winchester

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I lived in Alaska for a few years and hunted a lot.
It is certainly wise to carry a weapon at all times because if you surprise one you're in trouble.
But for the most part I saw them they acting like any other animal in the wild, if they see you or hear you they will leave.
I believe they know they can be hunted and they try to stay away from people.
It's true that dead bears don't tell tales or learn anything, but some folks shoot and them and miss … they sure do learn from that.

Having said that, I agree with Jim that occasionally they'll come to the sound of a rifle to check for a free meal.
So I guess as is the case with most things, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
 

BuzzH

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Apr 15, 2015
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I lived in Alaska for a few years and hunted a lot.
It is certainly wise to carry a weapon at all times because if you surprise one you're in trouble.
But for the most part I saw them they acting like any other animal in the wild, if they see you or hear you they will leave.
I believe they know they can be hunted and they try to stay away from people.
It's true that dead bears don't tell tales or learn anything, but some folks shoot and them and miss … they sure do learn from that.

Having said that, I agree with Jim that occasionally they'll come to the sound of a rifle to check for a free meal.
So I guess as is the case with most things, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Totally agree its wise to pack a firearm and/or spray.

Totally disagree with the rest...ever heard people say that grizzly bears hear a gunshot and its about like ringing the dinner bell?

How would a bear know if they hear a shot and should run away or run toward the gunshot?

Bottom line, hunting them isn't going to change their behavior in Wyoming. There wont be enough tags issued to make a dent...IF we get a season.

I will say, that considering the density of grizzly bears in the NW corner of Wyoming, I'm shocked there isn't more maulings and problems than there are. Same goes for AK and Canada.
 

go_deep

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Nov 30, 2014
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Totally agree its wise to pack a firearm and/or spray.

Totally disagree with the rest...ever heard people say that grizzly bears hear a gunshot and its about like ringing the dinner bell?

How would a bear know if they hear a shot and should run away or run toward the gunshot?

Bottom line, hunting them isn't going to change their behavior in Wyoming. There wont be enough tags issued to make a dent...IF we get a season.

I will say, that considering the density of grizzly bears in the NW corner of Wyoming, I'm shocked there isn't more maulings and problems than there are. Same goes for AK and Canada.

I'm honestly surprised that there isn't more bear incidents myself, shocked really when you think of all the vacationers around the NW corner that have nearly zero clue about Grizzlies.
I'm no biologist, and certainly don't spend as much time in grizzly country like others, but bears maybe actually have a lot more fear of humans than most think?

Look at all the dumb arse people managing to get ran over by bison in Yellowstone, you'd think Grizzlies would have a field day with that many clowns running around up there all summer long.
 

BuzzH

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Apr 15, 2015
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I'm honestly surprised that there isn't more bear incidents myself, shocked really when you think of all the vacationers around the NW corner that have nearly zero clue about Grizzlies.
I'm no biologist, and certainly don't spend as much time in grizzly country like others, but bears maybe actually have a lot more fear of humans than most think?

Look at all the dumb arse people managing to get ran over by bison in Yellowstone, you'd think Grizzlies would have a field day with that many clowns running around up there all summer long.
There have been steps taken to lower the encounters. Back in the "good old days" people fed bears from vehicles in Yellowstone and a high percentage of the bears were food conditioned at garbage dumps in the Park. More education near areas where bears frequent, secure garbage cans, securing food, bearproof boxes in the backcountry, better education of people, bear spray, rubber bullets, the list goes on and on.

All of these things combined have, and will do more to protect both humans and bears than killing a few each year via legal hunting, IMO.

Seems to work pretty well over-all as we have a recovered bear population and not many really bad encounters.

The bad thing is, grizzly bear mauling's are a lot like airplane crashes, when things go bad, they go really bad. But, over-all both are grossly unfounded fears statistically speaking. Its the thought that you may get mauled by a grizzly or have your plane crash that creates unreasonable fear.

I'm not going to stop hunting in areas that have grizzlies and I'm also not going to stop flying in airplanes either.
 

Winchester

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Go deep
You probably don’t see more incidents because bears really do prefer to avoid contact with people if they can. Just my guess.

As for the previous, “Hunting them isn’t going to change their behavior in Wyoming.” ... of course it will. Grizzlies are smart. That’s why they’ve figured out that sometimes a shot means a dead deer and food. That’s also because no one is shooting at them right now. If people start shooting at them they’ll learn that too and start moving away.
I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
 
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JimP

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There have been steps taken to lower the encounters. Back in the "good old days" people fed bears from vehicles in Yellowstone and a high percentage of the bears were food conditioned at garbage dumps in the Park. More education near areas where bears frequent, secure garbage cans, securing food, bearproof boxes in the backcountry, better education of people, bear spray, rubber bullets, the list goes on and on.
You got that right. My first and only trip through Yellowstone way back in the early 60's you could go sit in the grandstands near the garbage dump and watch the bears come in to feed.

As for feeding them from the cars, I remember my mom feeding a black bear a marshmellow through the wing window of our car.
 

BuzzH

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Apr 15, 2015
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Go deep
You probably don’t see more incidents because bears really do prefer to avoid contact with people if they can. Just my guess.

As for the previous, “Hunting them isn’t going to change their behavior in Wyoming.” ... of course it will. Grizzlies are smart. That’s why they’ve figured out that sometimes a shot means a dead deer and food. That’s also because no one is shooting at them right now. If people start shooting at them they’ll learn that too and start moving away.
I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
When you can find some research, that a grizzly bear can tell whether a gun shot means "danger, I'm being shot at" VS "Food, I just heard a gunshot"...feel free to post it up.

Laffin'...
 

Winchester

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I've been there and seen it Buzz.
They react differently when they're being shot at versus a noise off in the distance.
Believe me or not, I have no desire to banter with you further.
There's nothing to be gained, you'll argue about anything and there's no point in it.
And as Glen Campbell said in True Grit, "You've done nothin when you've bested a fool."
So long...