2021 WY Quality

[BuzzH]

Sebastian,

Glad you finally came to your senses...what Larry, myself, Jeff, and others have always known:

That pretty much tells me that antelope bucks often reach their peak at 4 to 5 years of age

Really? How profound of a conclusion...lots of word salad, spread sheets, to come up with that...amazing.

Sounds awfully similar to what I said:

The 5 B&C bucks my wife and I have shot are all 4+. We've shot another 5 or so that grossed 80, but netted under the B&C minimums, all those were 4+ as well. Another good pronghorn hunter in Wyoming that I know has shot at least 10 B&C bucks here, he said every single one he's shot were 4+. In that discussion, we thought that most of the bucks reach their peak at 4-6.

 

[ScottR]

So back to the OP's question....

Wyoming is going to have a variety of conditions based on the region dictating the quality. Long and the short of it...when it comes to Antelope if you hunt hard enough you can find a good goat in about 75% of the units in the state on public land. The 25% that I am leaving out is the NE corner where public land is tough to come by and what is there has very pressured animals.

Now back to the age debate, I am kind of enjoying watching this from the outside.

 

[Bonecollector]

Sebastian,

Glad you finally came to your senses...what Larry, myself, Jeff, and others have always known:

That pretty much tells me that antelope bucks often reach their peak at 4 to 5 years of age

Really? How profound of a conclusion...lots of word salad, spread sheets, to come up with that...amazing.

Sounds awfully similar to what I said:

The 5 B&C bucks my wife and I have shot are all 4+. We've shot another 5 or so that grossed 80, but netted under the B&C minimums, all those were 4+ as well. Another good pronghorn hunter in Wyoming that I know has shot at least 10 B&C bucks here, he said every single one he's shot were 4+. In that discussion, we thought that most of the bucks reach their peak at 4-6.

Agreed, but don't be so quick to disregard ALL the facts;
"Another interesting statistic from the spread sheet is that 36% of total bucks scoring 90+ B&C were 2 to 3 years of age while only 4% were 6+ years of age. Pretty interesting how many young bucks score so well! "
It's true a larger percentage of B&C bucks (60%) are 4-5 years old, but 36% of young bucks scoring so well (80"+) is something that should NOT be disregarded so easily either..... This is the point others are making.
Not here to argue (although you're making it easy if I were ) , simply keeping everyone honest with the statistics and not opinions and local harvest data....

As ScottR said, big bucks can be taken just about anywhere in WY, but success goes up in the better genetics areas and those of higher population odds (blue chip)

BTW- you've taken some smoker 'lopes over your hunt career. Congrats. Hoping to cut my tag on a 80" in the next 2 year. I've already tagged a few nice ones in past few years all off public land- DIY.

 

[ScottR]

Thursday is going to be pretty interesting, with Wyoming being one of the last to post results I have a feeling that there were a LOT of people in the draw.

 

[accubond]

Thursday is going to be pretty interesting, with Wyoming being one of the last to post results I have a feeling that there were a LOT of people in the draw.

I agree, me and everybody else that got "creeped out" in CO scrambled to get an app or 2 in for WY and that, coupled with tag cuts and normal creep will have some staggering point creep IMO.

 

[ScottR]

I agree, me and everybody else that got "creeped out" in CO scrambled to get an app or 2 in for WY and that, coupled with tag cuts and normal creep will have some staggering point creep IMO.

It is going to be pretty interesting. The numbers of tags available simply aren't matching the number of applicants in the top pools. What will be interesting over the next few years is to see how many people just want out of the mousetrap and go after the "easy" to draw or OTC stuff.

 

[BuzzH]

Agreed, but don't be so quick to disregard ALL the facts;
"Another interesting statistic from the spread sheet is that 36% of total bucks scoring 90+ B&C were 2 to 3 years of age while only 4% were 6+ years of age. Pretty interesting how many young bucks score so well! "
It's true a larger percentage of B&C bucks (60%) are 4-5 years old, but 36% of young bucks scoring so well (80"+) is something that should NOT be disregarded so easily either..... This is the point others are making.
Not here to argue (although you're making it easy if I were ) , simply keeping everyone honest with the statistics and not opinions and local harvest data....

As ScottR said, big bucks can be taken just about anywhere in WY, but success goes up in the better genetics areas and those of higher population odds (blue chip)

BTW- you've taken some smoker 'lopes over your hunt career. Congrats. Hoping to cut my tag on a 80" in the next 2 year. I've already tagged a few nice ones in past few years all off public land- DIY.

I'm not shocked that 3 separate groups of hunters that have taken 30+ B&C pronghorns between them, killed in pretty large geographic area of Wyoming, have all aged them at 4+...

Didn't take a spread sheet or 2000 words to draw that conclusion.

 

[Bonecollector]

LOL.... correct. AND 40% of B&C bucks are 2 yr old.
Aww Com'on Buzz, just say it. We'll all remember this defining moment.

 

[BuzzH]

LOL.... correct. AND 40% of B&C bucks are 2 yr old.
Aww Com'on Buzz, just say it. We'll all remember this defining moment.

I think you need a refresher in math and statistics...take Sebastian with you.

 

[Winchester]

Aww Com'on Buzz, just say it. We'll all remember this defining moment.

Don’t hold your breath Bones !!

Actually, I’m enjoying this thread quite a bit.
I call tell Buzz is being his usual argumentative self, but since I blocked him a while ago, I can just see everyone else’s insights and input without having to read his nonsense. It’s pretty cool.

 

[ssulliv155]

Thursday is going to be pretty interesting, with Wyoming being one of the last to post results I have a feeling that there were a LOT of people in the draw.

It’s hard to contain my excitement. I wish the Game and Fish would at least post the draw odds a few days before the results since the draws have already been completed. It would at least give us something to stew over in the meantime

 

[jimss]

Buzz, you were questioning about younger bucks in the 2 to 3 1/2 year classes even making B&C. Straight from the horse's mouth....."I doubt there's many, if any B&C bucks in Wyoming that are 2 years old...probably a handful at 3 years old. A vast, vast majority are 4+."

In reality there are many B&C bucks and super high scoring 87+" mega Wyo bucks that are only 2 to 3 1/2 years old. From the lengthy list of B&C I have that have been tooth-aged there were actually more 2 to 3 1/2 year old bucks than older age 6 to 7 year old bucks that made 82+ B&C.

So Buzz, do you now agree with me that there are actually more top scoring 2 to 3 1/2 year old bucks than 6 to 7 1/2 year old bucks in the B&C books that score over 87 B&C? That's the big question? It sounded like your early post mentioned that you thought there was close to 0 that were 2 1/2 year old and maybe a handful of 3 1/2 year olds that scored a measly 80+ B&C?

 

[Bonecollector]

I think you need a refresher in math and statistics...take Sebastian with you.

Easy buzz, I have 5 degrees and an MBA. I am a SVP of a major US bank. Yeah, I could be an educated idiot but doubtful considering my career success. The percentage numbers were pulled from his spreadsheet data. (36%). You even agreed with him when it benefited you. But you worded to state “he agreed with you”.

This thread served several purposes.

1 You don’t believe data even when presented from multiple reliable sources. Many EF members learned from this thread
2 You can never admit you’re wrong. I believe it is called narcism. (Sebastian statement reversed is one of several examples)
3 The folks on this forum see and understand the data for what it is as well as who you are.

I’m enjoying baiting you in entertaining the EF masses.
Lets see if you can walk away quietly yet…

 

[Don K]

Ahhhh, a couple more days and I will know if I really need to worry about the quality or not this year

 

[ScottR]

It’s hard to contain my excitement. I wish the Game and Fish would at least post the draw odds a few days before the results since the draws have already been completed. It would at least give us something to stew over in the meantime

I would likely lose my mind waiting!

 

[Winchester]

Damn Bones … that’s good stuff !!!

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, you were questioning about younger bucks in the 2 to 3 1/2 year classes even making B&C. Straight from the horse's mouth....."I doubt there's many, if any B&C bucks in Wyoming that are 2 years old...probably a handful at 3 years old. A vast, vast majority are 4+."

In reality there are many B&C bucks and super high scoring 87+" mega Wyo bucks that are only 2 to 3 1/2 years old. From the lengthy list of B&C I have that have been tooth-aged there were actually more 2 to 3 1/2 year old bucks than older age 6 to 7 year old bucks that made 82+ B&C.

So Buzz, do you now agree with me that there are actually more top scoring 2 to 3 1/2 year old bucks than 6 to 7 1/2 year old bucks in the B&C books that score over 87 B&C? That's the big question? It sounded like your early post mentioned that you thought there was close to 0 that were 2 1/2 year old and maybe a handful of 3 1/2 year olds that scored a measly 80+ B&C?

I bet you were a pro at twister when you were a kid...

Who said anything about 6-7 1/2 year old bucks? That's all you, from your supposed "data"...and maybe study up on why anyone would send a 2 or 3 year old buck to a lab for aging. That makes as much sense as a soup sandwich. Re-read some of the stuff Grimmets had to say about the reliability of the lab aged pronghorn...not exactly a glowing review.

Define "many" high scoring 2 and 3 year old bucks? Is that one a year? 2 a year? Maybe pull a percentage out of your hat...and be sure to include "Western States" rather than just Wyoming...confirmation bias.

Define how many of the total number of WY B&C bucks have ages associated with them...1%? 2%, 5% of the total B&C bucks entered from Wyoming...maybe?

No, I don't agree with your assessment at all...other than what I knew all along, a vast majority of WY B&C bucks are at least 4 years old.

The fact is, there aren't that many 2 and 3 year old bucks killed in WY that book, that's what I said, nothing about more 3 year old bucks than 7 1/2 year old bucks...never said it, never implied it, never even mentioned it. Another fact, a vast majority, are 4+...that includes all bucks 4 years old and older, which is easy to determine without a lab.

In reference to where a buck reaches its peak in horn growth, you'll never know what they'll be at 4, 5, 6, 7, or 8 when they're dead at 3, fact.

 

[BuzzH]

Easy buzz, I have 5 degrees and an MBA. I am a SVP of a major US bank. Yeah, I could be an educated idiot but doubtful considering my career success. The percentage numbers were pulled from his spreadsheet data. (36%). You even agreed with him when it benefited you. But you worded to state “he agreed with you”.

This thread served several purposes.

1 You don’t believe data even when presented from multiple reliable sources. Many EF members learned from this thread
2 You can never admit you’re wrong. I believe it is called narcism. (Sebastian statement reversed is one of several examples)
3 The folks on this forum see and understand the data for what it is as well as who you are.

I’m enjoying baiting you in entertaining the EF masses.
Lets see if you can walk away quietly yet…

If you have 5 degrees, then you should be well aware of statistical error, sampling error, standard deviation, data set size, and how easily statistics can be manipulated, misunderstood, cherry picked, etc. etc. etc. By the way, have you seen the source of Sebastian's data? Cross referenced it? Done any quality control on it?

Just for the record, you aren't the only guy with a college degree or only person that deals professionally with data analysis and the things I listed above. I've been dealing with complex statistical analysis with data sets containing several hundred thousand variables per set...for well, going on 34 years.

I won't apologize for not having much faith in an imaginary data set put together by a guy that until this thread, didn't even know how to age a pronghorn, provided as statistically relevant data. In my line of work, I'd call his spread sheet statistically irrelevant.

The folks on this forum must be pretty special indeed, to "see and understand the data"...data that's never been provided.

I can put together a spreadsheet in about 5 minutes to confirm any bias I want...and apparently, you'll buy it, hook...line...sinker. Wish it was that easy to fool educated folks....oh, wait.

As far as being wrong...yeah, just about every day about all kinds of things. Aging pronghorn, in particular the one's I've shot...not so much.

 

[Bonecollector]

I actually smiled when I logged in this morning just knowing.... just knowing you HAD to respond.
Of course I've not seen the data sampling, nor have I seen more than a handful of your pronghorn pictures. (They are seriously very nice by the way.) However, I don't know the age nor score of any of them and I can't simply take your word for it now can I.
I also typed my message in a way to test your narcissism level..... let's just say you did very well depending on how you view the results.

I've got to get to work, but we here at EF appreciate you buzz. Your entertainment value is priceless.

 

[mallardsx2]

I think Buzz just called us "special indeed".

That made me feel warm inside and I for one am going to take it as a compliment.

Carry on!