I'm wondering what everybody thinks the buck quality will be like in central WY this year? I know all the talk is about numbers being down in a lot of areas but I can't find anything about quality predictions for this year.
2021 WY Quality
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Hilltop
Veteran member
Below average moisture - https://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/CurrentMap/StateDroughtMonitor.aspx?WY
If you are sitting on max points, may not be the best year to apply for the desert.
If you are sitting on max points, may not be the best year to apply for the desert.
wy-tex
Veteran member
Some areas had a rough late summer with poor winter range conditions. Things looked rough going into spring but some areas, here in SE have had decent moisture and better conditions lately. Horn growth looks ok , I hear over West of say Elk Mountian, or Rawlins towards Rock Springs, moisture has been scarce and range is still tough. Here in SE Wyoming, Laramie area and East, we are looking ok right now.
Much of the state is still in drought.
Perhaps the folks in other areas will chime in for you.
Much of the state is still in drought.
Perhaps the folks in other areas will chime in for you.
I've been hunting trophy Wyo antelope since I was a kid (50ish years). Two of my all time best bucks were shot in years with historic drought. In fact, one of the best year's I have seen for Wyo B&C entries was in a historic drought year. I waited years for mild winters and a moist spring to draw a high demand tag in Central Wyo....and ended up harvesting an 80" buck that was the biggest buck I saw out of the 750ish bucks I saw in the premier unit! It took me a few years to make sense of what the heck was going on! Some guys believe that moisture has a lot to do with horn growth in any particular year but there are more factors than that to consider.
MATURE antelope buck horn growth in drought years is less affected by drought than mature deer and elk antler growth by drought in that year. Antelope horns are dropped each year and form around a permanent pedacle (sheath). I've looked at a lot of antelope pedacles over the years and B&C bucks definitely have massive pedicals that are similar from 1 year to the next after they reach 2 1/2 years old! Deer and elk antlers are shed and start entirely from scratch each year. What I've noticed is that fawn bucks born in drought years or when does are stressed by drought plus tough winters are born with small horn pedicals. Unfortunately bucks born in years when does are stressed are plagued with small horns the remainder of their life. Buck fawns born when great conditions exist and does are super healthy are blessed with massive horns the remainder of their lives.
In regard to Central Wyo. A lot of hunters last year found out that the I80 corridor of units had very few mature bucks. Most units in that area got hammered by deep snow and super cold temps in winter 2020. With all that snow I saw incredible massive growth on yearling bucks last year. The young bucks in Central Wyo that survived the winter had remarkable horn growth for their age in 2021. Your guess is as good as mine what the massive yearling bucks will be as 2 1/2 year olds this coming season. I heard that Grimmets have harvested a few B&C bucks at only 2 1/2 years of age...so it's possible? At 3 1/2 years of age I think they are going to be huge regardless of the spring of that year is droughty or wet. From what I've noticed, moisture helps but isn't necessary.
Unfortunately there were very few fawns that made it through the 2020 winter and/or super dry summer in some units. Some units outside that corridor or where antelope were able to wonder out of areas with deep snow or that dried up were fine in 2020. The units where mature bucks were able to make it through last winter ought to be ok. Even though there was great moisture from the 2020 deep snow a lot of units in Central Wyo dried up in July through August. I noticed an incredible amount of antelope movement out of historic winter and summer ranges in 2020 due to both deep snow and drought. Some areas were bone dry had 0 antelope where there were literally hundreds earlier in the spring.
The winter of 2021 was relatively mild through most of Central Wyo until the late deep snow in the Casper-Douglas area got hammered. From what I've heard that area got hit the hardest by winterkill. Obviously there is a reflection of fewer tags in units that got hit the hardest.
With that said, if you are a trophy antelope fanatic it is wise to keep track of weather and other conditions that exist in a particular unit or area for the past 5 years. If all the stars align with moisture, age, winterkill, drought, etc. over several years and you get lucky and draw a tag you'll likely stand a better chance of harvesting a B&C buck. I guess what I'm trying to say is just because a spring is super wet or droughty really doesn't mean a whole lot. It's wise to keep track of the past 2 to 5 years!
Do I have you totally confused? Anyway, there are a lot of variables.....
MATURE antelope buck horn growth in drought years is less affected by drought than mature deer and elk antler growth by drought in that year. Antelope horns are dropped each year and form around a permanent pedacle (sheath). I've looked at a lot of antelope pedacles over the years and B&C bucks definitely have massive pedicals that are similar from 1 year to the next after they reach 2 1/2 years old! Deer and elk antlers are shed and start entirely from scratch each year. What I've noticed is that fawn bucks born in drought years or when does are stressed by drought plus tough winters are born with small horn pedicals. Unfortunately bucks born in years when does are stressed are plagued with small horns the remainder of their life. Buck fawns born when great conditions exist and does are super healthy are blessed with massive horns the remainder of their lives.
In regard to Central Wyo. A lot of hunters last year found out that the I80 corridor of units had very few mature bucks. Most units in that area got hammered by deep snow and super cold temps in winter 2020. With all that snow I saw incredible massive growth on yearling bucks last year. The young bucks in Central Wyo that survived the winter had remarkable horn growth for their age in 2021. Your guess is as good as mine what the massive yearling bucks will be as 2 1/2 year olds this coming season. I heard that Grimmets have harvested a few B&C bucks at only 2 1/2 years of age...so it's possible? At 3 1/2 years of age I think they are going to be huge regardless of the spring of that year is droughty or wet. From what I've noticed, moisture helps but isn't necessary.
Unfortunately there were very few fawns that made it through the 2020 winter and/or super dry summer in some units. Some units outside that corridor or where antelope were able to wonder out of areas with deep snow or that dried up were fine in 2020. The units where mature bucks were able to make it through last winter ought to be ok. Even though there was great moisture from the 2020 deep snow a lot of units in Central Wyo dried up in July through August. I noticed an incredible amount of antelope movement out of historic winter and summer ranges in 2020 due to both deep snow and drought. Some areas were bone dry had 0 antelope where there were literally hundreds earlier in the spring.
The winter of 2021 was relatively mild through most of Central Wyo until the late deep snow in the Casper-Douglas area got hammered. From what I've heard that area got hit the hardest by winterkill. Obviously there is a reflection of fewer tags in units that got hit the hardest.
With that said, if you are a trophy antelope fanatic it is wise to keep track of weather and other conditions that exist in a particular unit or area for the past 5 years. If all the stars align with moisture, age, winterkill, drought, etc. over several years and you get lucky and draw a tag you'll likely stand a better chance of harvesting a B&C buck. I guess what I'm trying to say is just because a spring is super wet or droughty really doesn't mean a whole lot. It's wise to keep track of the past 2 to 5 years!
Do I have you totally confused? Anyway, there are a lot of variables.....
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Hilltop
Veteran member
Some great information above from jimss. To add, you really get bucks at their full potential when you have a buck that was born on a good moisture year, you allow him to reach full maturity, and then you hunt him on a year with above average moisture.
Some questionable information as well.
I doubt there's many, if any B&C bucks in Wyoming that are 2 years old...probably a handful at 3 years old. A vast, vast majority are 4+.
The 5 B&C bucks my wife and I have shot are all 4+. We've shot another 5 or so that grossed 80, but netted under the B&C minimums, all those were 4+ as well. Another good pronghorn hunter in Wyoming that I know has shot at least 10 B&C bucks here, he said every single one he's shot were 4+. In that discussion, we thought that most of the bucks reach their peak at 4-6.
Also, while its a good idea to watch conditions, its more important to know what a great buck looks like. Scout your area, and shoot the best buck you find, on any year, and you'll have a fine trophy.
I took photo's of this buck last year, during pronghorn season while I was hunting elk. Its along the I-80 corridor where many said big bucks were non-existent last year.
Extra large body/head on this buck and great mass throughout the horns, really good above the prongs....just what you look for in a B&C pronghorn in Wyoming. I'm 100% sure this is an all-time B&C pronghorn...and no doubt 4+ years old.
Buzz, as always we will agree to disagree on another topic! I almost always try to have sound data to back up my statements. Obviously there are exceptions to my comments above. I guess I would ask you this question. If you invested 14 years of applying for a trophy Wyo antelope unit would you rather draw a unit 57 tag in 2020 after a super tough winter with deep snow, cold temperatures, and when most mature bucks winterkilled........... or possibly wait to draw a premium unit that has 3 to 4 years of mild winters, buck fawns were born in a year with great conditons, and a super wet spring the year of your hunt? That's the point I am trying to make in my post above! I also thought I would bring to light that there is a lot more to producing whopper bucks than drought in any given year.
Here's a couple references that prove my point that it's possible to grow high scoring B&C bucks in only 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years. Take a look at Grimmetts facebook website's posts between the dates of March 14 and February 21, 2021. He has photos of quite a few 84 to 91 B&C bucks that his crew has helped his clients harvest that are 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years of age. He also has comments in regard to some bucks regressed after 3 1/2 years of age. Grimmetts have just about all their bucks aged by Maton's Laboratories which are pretty much spot.
www.facebook.com
What's amazing is that one of the top 5 bucks Grimmett's client harvested in Wyo was only 3 1/2 years old and scored 90 2/8. He also has another buck on his website that scored 91 2/8 that was only 3 1/2 years old.
Here's another article published by the Boone and Crockett Club in regard to antelope bucks and age to prove my point about 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 year old bucks:
www.boone-crockett.org
Here's a paragraph from that article:
Another unique aspect of pronghorns compared to other game animals is that their horns reach a maximum size at a relatively early age. Studies of pronghorn from Colorado north to Montana and Alberta consistently show pronghorn achieving a plateau in horn size by 2 – 3 years of age. Pronghorn in New Mexico and Arizona may have peak horn size later, perhaps 4-5 years of age. Furthermore, young bucks (less than four years of age) are often half of the top 10 largest pronghorn harvested in a region. The highest scoring Boone and Crockett pronghorn trophies, in which the animals’ ages are known, are three years old or younger!
With that said, it's wise to know the history of conditions that exist in a particular unit. It's possible to produce B&C bucks at only 2 1/2 years of age. Obviously it's also possible to produce B&C bucks at 4 1/2+ years of age. The more local knowledge you have of past year's conditions that exist prior to drawing a tag will pull things in your favor. Scout, research, and hunt hard no matter what year you draw and you will be rewarded for your effort.
Here's a couple references that prove my point that it's possible to grow high scoring B&C bucks in only 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years. Take a look at Grimmetts facebook website's posts between the dates of March 14 and February 21, 2021. He has photos of quite a few 84 to 91 B&C bucks that his crew has helped his clients harvest that are 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years of age. He also has comments in regard to some bucks regressed after 3 1/2 years of age. Grimmetts have just about all their bucks aged by Maton's Laboratories which are pretty much spot.
Pronghorn Guide Service
Pronghorn Guide Service, Phoenix, Arizona. 8,117 likes · 947 talking about this. We help hunters kill giant pronghorn in Arizona, New Mexico, and Wyoming.
www.facebook.com
What's amazing is that one of the top 5 bucks Grimmett's client harvested in Wyo was only 3 1/2 years old and scored 90 2/8. He also has another buck on his website that scored 91 2/8 that was only 3 1/2 years old.
Here's another article published by the Boone and Crockett Club in regard to antelope bucks and age to prove my point about 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 year old bucks:
Pronghorn Evolution and Management
By David Hewitt, Boone and Crockett Club Professional Member It is an axiom that management for trop
Here's a paragraph from that article:
Another unique aspect of pronghorns compared to other game animals is that their horns reach a maximum size at a relatively early age. Studies of pronghorn from Colorado north to Montana and Alberta consistently show pronghorn achieving a plateau in horn size by 2 – 3 years of age. Pronghorn in New Mexico and Arizona may have peak horn size later, perhaps 4-5 years of age. Furthermore, young bucks (less than four years of age) are often half of the top 10 largest pronghorn harvested in a region. The highest scoring Boone and Crockett pronghorn trophies, in which the animals’ ages are known, are three years old or younger!
With that said, it's wise to know the history of conditions that exist in a particular unit. It's possible to produce B&C bucks at only 2 1/2 years of age. Obviously it's also possible to produce B&C bucks at 4 1/2+ years of age. The more local knowledge you have of past year's conditions that exist prior to drawing a tag will pull things in your favor. Scout, research, and hunt hard no matter what year you draw and you will be rewarded for your effort.
Bonecollector
Veteran member
I’ll add that I too follow Grimmette’s research year in and year out. Lotta record book books being glassed and taken younger than four years old. May not be the norm but it’s also not that uncommon either.Buzz, as always we will agree to disagree on another topic! I almost always try to have sound data to back up my statements. Obviously there are exceptions to my comments above. I guess I would ask you this question. If you invested 14 years of applying for a trophy Wyo antelope unit would you rather draw a unit 57 tag in 2020 after a super tough winter with deep snow, cold temperatures, and when most mature bucks winterkilled........... or possibly wait to draw a premium unit that has 3 to 4 years of mild winters, buck fawns were born in a year with great conditons, and a super wet spring the year of your hunt? That's the point I am trying to make in my post above! I also thought I would bring to light that there is a lot more to producing whopper bucks than drought in any given year.
Here's a couple references that prove my point that it's possible to grow high scoring B&C bucks in only 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years. Take a look at Grimmetts facebook website's posts between the dates of March 14 and February 21, 2021. He has photos of quite a few 84 to 91 B&C bucks that his crew has helped his clients harvest that are 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years of age. He also has comments in regard to some bucks regressed after 3 1/2 years of age. Grimmetts have just about all their bucks aged by Maton's Laboratories which are pretty much spot.
Pronghorn Guide Service
Pronghorn Guide Service, Phoenix, Arizona. 8,117 likes · 947 talking about this. We help hunters kill giant pronghorn in Arizona, New Mexico, and Wyoming.
What's amazing is that one of the top 5 bucks Grimmett's client harvested in Wyo was only 3 1/2 years old and scored 90 2/8. He also has another buck on his website that scored 91 2/8 that was only 3 1/2 years old.
Here's another article published by the Boone and Crockett Club in regard to antelope bucks and age to prove my point about 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 year old bucks:
Pronghorn Evolution and Management
By David Hewitt, Boone and Crockett Club Professional Member It is an axiom that management for trop
Here's a paragraph from that article:
Another unique aspect of pronghorns compared to other game animals is that their horns reach a maximum size at a relatively early age. Studies of pronghorn from Colorado north to Montana and Alberta consistently show pronghorn achieving a plateau in horn size by 2 – 3 years of age. Pronghorn in New Mexico and Arizona may have peak horn size later, perhaps 4-5 years of age. Furthermore, young bucks (less than four years of age) are often half of the top 10 largest pronghorn harvested in a region. The highest scoring Boone and Crockett pronghorn trophies, in which the animals’ ages are known, are three years old or younger!
With that said, it's wise to know the history of conditions that exist in a particular unit. It's possible to produce B&C bucks at only 2 1/2 years of age. Obviously it's also possible to produce B&C bucks at 4 1/2+ years of age. The more local knowledge you have of past year's conditions that exist prior to drawing a tag will pull things in your favor. Scout, research, and hunt hard no matter what year you draw and you will be rewarded for your effort.
Sometimes being a resident it’s possible to take some things for granted... A lot of good information is never better than great information. Of course I’ll take Lucky over either any day.
I would have used unit 62 for my choice of units for your good year argument...this year looks to be good in that unit from what I've seen so far this year. Probably a good place to burn some points.Buzz, as always we will agree to disagree on another topic! I almost always try to have sound data to back up my statements. Obviously there are exceptions to my comments above. I guess I would ask you this question. If you invested 14 years of applying for a trophy Wyo antelope unit would you rather draw a unit 57 tag in 2020 after a super tough winter with deep snow, cold temperatures, and when most mature bucks winterkilled........... or possibly wait to draw a premium unit that has 3 to 4 years of mild winters, buck fawns were born in a year with great conditons, and a super wet spring the year of your hunt? That's the point I am trying to make in my post above! I also thought I would bring to light that there is a lot more to producing whopper bucks than drought in any given year.
Here's a couple references that prove my point that it's possible to grow high scoring B&C bucks in only 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years. Take a look at Grimmetts facebook website's posts between the dates of March 14 and February 21, 2021. He has photos of quite a few 84 to 91 B&C bucks that his crew has helped his clients harvest that are 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years of age. He also has comments in regard to some bucks regressed after 3 1/2 years of age. Grimmetts have just about all their bucks aged by Maton's Laboratories which are pretty much spot.
Pronghorn Guide Service
Pronghorn Guide Service, Phoenix, Arizona. 8,117 likes · 947 talking about this. We help hunters kill giant pronghorn in Arizona, New Mexico, and Wyoming.
What's amazing is that one of the top 5 bucks Grimmett's client harvested in Wyo was only 3 1/2 years old and scored 90 2/8. He also has another buck on his website that scored 91 2/8 that was only 3 1/2 years old.
Here's another article published by the Boone and Crockett Club in regard to antelope bucks and age to prove my point about 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 year old bucks:
Pronghorn Evolution and Management
By David Hewitt, Boone and Crockett Club Professional Member It is an axiom that management for trop
Here's a paragraph from that article:
Another unique aspect of pronghorns compared to other game animals is that their horns reach a maximum size at a relatively early age. Studies of pronghorn from Colorado north to Montana and Alberta consistently show pronghorn achieving a plateau in horn size by 2 – 3 years of age. Pronghorn in New Mexico and Arizona may have peak horn size later, perhaps 4-5 years of age. Furthermore, young bucks (less than four years of age) are often half of the top 10 largest pronghorn harvested in a region. The highest scoring Boone and Crockett pronghorn trophies, in which the animals’ ages are known, are three years old or younger!
With that said, it's wise to know the history of conditions that exist in a particular unit. It's possible to produce B&C bucks at only 2 1/2 years of age. Obviously it's also possible to produce B&C bucks at 4 1/2+ years of age. The more local knowledge you have of past year's conditions that exist prior to drawing a tag will pull things in your favor. Scout, research, and hunt hard no matter what year you draw and you will be rewarded for your effort.
In the article you posted, did you read the part about most B&C bucks south of Montana being 4-5? Just from having looked at maybe 150 or so dead buck pronghorn that myself, family and friends have killed here in Wyoming, a vast majority of the best bucks are all 4 or older.
Why anyone would send a tooth to be aged to a lab for bucks that are 2.5 or 3.5 years old...waste of money. Anyone with eyeballs and a basic understanding of pronghorn can tell they are 2.5, 3.5, or over 4. The only reason to send a tooth to a lab is to confirm how much older than 4.5 they are.
I always look at the age of the bucks I kill, my family and friends kill.
I've shot 2 bucks and only seen 2 bucks shot that were younger than 4 that scored over 75.
I shot both of them:
This one was 2.5, just shy of 16 inches and was getting its a$$ kicked by a 13 inch buck. My friend I was hunting with and I talked about it before I killed this buck, that it was probably pretty young due to it being bullied by a much smaller buck. Would he have been better at 3.5 or 4.5? My gut tells me yes and I have always regretted killing this buck. I would find it hard to believe he would have been smaller at 3 or 4.
This one was 3.5, knew it was a shrimp of buck body wise before I killed him, probably the smallest bodied pronghorn buck I've ever shot in Wyoming. He was with a 1.5 or 2.5 year old doe and was exactly the same body size as she was. Horn shape got him killed.
My wife shot this buck the day before in the same area, he dwarfed the does he was with...buck was 4+ and is entered in B&C:
Of the remaining bucks (probably over 50) that had B&C scores from 75-86 that I've seen shot or shot myself here, have all been 4+. Not a huge sample size, would like to see ages taken on all the B&C bucks killed in Wyoming annually.
For the record, the oldest buck over 4 that I've seen shot was this one, on a leftover tag that my wife killed in a place hunting had not been allowed in for a long time. Lab aged at 8.5:
It would be interesting to see more age data on top end bucks from Wyoming..
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Buzz........Like usual you are rambling in circles! Twisting and turning facts with our odd comments?
The Boone and Crockett article mentions this fact: "The highest scoring Boone and Crockett pronghorn trophies, in which the animals’ ages are known, are three years old or younger!"
I think you are back-peddling a bit from your original comments: Buzz said, "I doubt there's many, if any B&C bucks in Wyoming that are 2 years old...probably a handful at 3 years old. A vast, vast majority are 4+.The 5 B&C bucks my wife and I have shot are all 4+. We've shot another 5 or so that grossed 80, but netted under the B&C minimums, all those were 4+ as well. Another good pronghorn hunter in Wyoming that I know has shot at least 10 B&C bucks here, he said every single one he's shot were 4+. In that discussion, we thought that most of the bucks reach their peak at 4-6. "
Buzz, you are mistaken about Wyo bucks......read the following paragraph a 2nd time.......Studies of pronghorn from Colorado north to Montana and Alberta consistently show pronghorn achieving a plateau in horn size by 2 – 3 years of age. Pronghorn in New Mexico and Arizona may have peak horn size later, perhaps 4-5 years of age. Furthermore, young bucks (less than four years of age) are often half of the top 10 largest pronghorn harvested in a region. The highest scoring Boone and Crockett pronghorn trophies, in which the animals’ ages are known, are three years old or younger!
Buzz, did you happen to see the photo of the 90 2/8" buck from Wyo on Grimmett's website that was only 3 1/2 years old?
Just because you haven't ever harvested a younger B&C buck in Wyo doesn't mean squat! It's obvious from your post that you merely look at the teeth and guess their age. I actually think it's great that Grimmetts go the extra step to be assured of age of bucks they harvest by having almost all of them professionally aged. Ask Grimmett's how many bucks he and his clients have harvested over the years that are 2 to 3 1/2 years of age that score 82 to 90+".....lots!
The Boone and Crockett article mentions this fact: "The highest scoring Boone and Crockett pronghorn trophies, in which the animals’ ages are known, are three years old or younger!"
I think you are back-peddling a bit from your original comments: Buzz said, "I doubt there's many, if any B&C bucks in Wyoming that are 2 years old...probably a handful at 3 years old. A vast, vast majority are 4+.The 5 B&C bucks my wife and I have shot are all 4+. We've shot another 5 or so that grossed 80, but netted under the B&C minimums, all those were 4+ as well. Another good pronghorn hunter in Wyoming that I know has shot at least 10 B&C bucks here, he said every single one he's shot were 4+. In that discussion, we thought that most of the bucks reach their peak at 4-6. "
Buzz, you are mistaken about Wyo bucks......read the following paragraph a 2nd time.......Studies of pronghorn from Colorado north to Montana and Alberta consistently show pronghorn achieving a plateau in horn size by 2 – 3 years of age. Pronghorn in New Mexico and Arizona may have peak horn size later, perhaps 4-5 years of age. Furthermore, young bucks (less than four years of age) are often half of the top 10 largest pronghorn harvested in a region. The highest scoring Boone and Crockett pronghorn trophies, in which the animals’ ages are known, are three years old or younger!
Buzz, did you happen to see the photo of the 90 2/8" buck from Wyo on Grimmett's website that was only 3 1/2 years old?
Just because you haven't ever harvested a younger B&C buck in Wyo doesn't mean squat! It's obvious from your post that you merely look at the teeth and guess their age. I actually think it's great that Grimmetts go the extra step to be assured of age of bucks they harvest by having almost all of them professionally aged. Ask Grimmett's how many bucks he and his clients have harvested over the years that are 2 to 3 1/2 years of age that score 82 to 90+".....lots!
Right, of the KNOWN ages...what percentage of B&C bucks are aged? 10%, 5%, less than 1%? I've never been asked for the age on any of the ones we've entered, but they are all over 4.
Here's an easy way to age your own pronghorn, deciduous teeth in the front incisors.
Not back peddling on anything, I've never seen a 2.5 year old buck from Wyoming that made B&C. Could happen but its rare. I trust my source of information. I had the discussion in question with the guy that's pushing the 90-10 license split in the legislature, hell of pronghorn hunter who's killed at least 10 B&C pronghorn in Wyoming, probably more than that. You know who he is. We discussed the ages of all the bucks we've killed, IIRC, he said all of his were 4. He also knows how to age a pronghorn up to 4...really simple and reliable.
Not mistaken at all. How do you know a 3.5 year old buck has a "plateau" in horns size when they're dead at 3.5? Answer: you don't, you'll never know because they never get older once they're dead.
No, I don't follow facebook or the Grimmetts around. One B&C buck that is 3.5 years old doesn't mean squat!.
It means between 10 of the best pronghorn my wife and I have shot that gross score between 80-86 in Wyoming, that all were at least 4 years old. Based on tooth wear after 4 on the molars, I would say 7 of the 10 were exactly 4 years old, the other 3 had significantly more molar wear.
Yes, for pronghorn up to 4 years old, its a no-brainer per the deciduous incisors, see above. Its not a guess, its a fact up to 4 years old that anyone with a set of eyeballs and any knowledge of pronghorn can age them to 4. Over 4, nothing reliable except a lab and/or a lot of experience looking at lower molar wear for specific and pretty small regions.
Also from the WYGF:
Application – Hoover et al. (1959) and Dow and Wright (1962) described aging techniques based upon tooth eruption. Pronghorn have 3 sets of incisors and 1 set of incisor-like (incisiform) canines on the lower jaw. In juveniles (age 4-6 months), all incisors and incisiforms are deciduous; they are much narrower and smaller than permanent, adult incisors. Generally, one set of deciduous incisors is replaced annually, beginning with the central set (called the first incisors). Aging is accomplished by counting the number of larger, permanent incisors and incisiforms present on one side (one-half) of the lower jaw. Juveniles are readily identified by their smaller body size and short rostrum (muzzle). In yearling (16-18 months) pronghorn, the central set of permanent incisors is usually present. These are much larger and broader than adjoining, deciduous teeth. If the permanent incisors have not erupted, the central set of deciduous incisors will appear worn, widely spaced, and may be quite loose. The second set of permanent incisors is present in 2-year old (28-30 months) pronghorn, the third set in 3-year old (40-42 months) pronghorn, and the incisiform canines (fourth set) are generally replaced in 4-year old (52+ months) pronghorn.
Another source of aging via incisors from the GF facebook page that popped up on a google search from another site. I corresponded with the author of the article on aging pronghorn, and he may even post here once in a while:
Example here of a no doubt 4 year old (or older) buck from Wyoming per 4 adult incisors:
I think so too, even if aging 2.5 and 3.5 year old bucks is a waste of their money it would be worthwhile to age bucks that were 4 to see how much over 4 they may or may not be.
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Good for you Buzz! That's great you and your buddy Larry have harvested a few older age bucks.
Grimmetts have harvested 128 bucks that are 82+ B&C in Wyoming since 2006 so have a pretty decent pool of B&C bucks. Since most of their bucks are lab tested for age they have a pretty a good idea of age classes of the B&C bucks they have harvested in the units they hunt.
Some literature that back up the comments in the B&C article:
For more information on pronghorn growth patterns see:
C. D. Mitchell and C. R. Maher. 2001. Are Horn Characteristics Related to Age in Male Pronghorns? Wildlife Society Bulletin 29:908–916.
C. D. Mitchell and C. R. Maher. 2006. Horn Growth in Male Pronghorns (Antilocapra americana): Selection for Precocial Maturation in Stochastic Environments. Acta Theriologica 51:405–409.
K. Morton, P. F. Jones, and M. Grue. 2008. Comparison between Pronghorn Age and Horn Size in Southern Alberta. Proceedings Pronghorn Workshop 23:104–114.
D. E. Brown, W. C. Keebler, C. D. Mitchell. 2010. Hunting and trophy horn size in male pronghorn. Proceedings Pronghorn Workshop 24:In press.
Grimmetts have harvested 128 bucks that are 82+ B&C in Wyoming since 2006 so have a pretty decent pool of B&C bucks. Since most of their bucks are lab tested for age they have a pretty a good idea of age classes of the B&C bucks they have harvested in the units they hunt.
Some literature that back up the comments in the B&C article:
For more information on pronghorn growth patterns see:
C. D. Mitchell and C. R. Maher. 2001. Are Horn Characteristics Related to Age in Male Pronghorns? Wildlife Society Bulletin 29:908–916.
C. D. Mitchell and C. R. Maher. 2006. Horn Growth in Male Pronghorns (Antilocapra americana): Selection for Precocial Maturation in Stochastic Environments. Acta Theriologica 51:405–409.
K. Morton, P. F. Jones, and M. Grue. 2008. Comparison between Pronghorn Age and Horn Size in Southern Alberta. Proceedings Pronghorn Workshop 23:104–114.
D. E. Brown, W. C. Keebler, C. D. Mitchell. 2010. Hunting and trophy horn size in male pronghorn. Proceedings Pronghorn Workshop 24:In press.
Since you like to sniff Grimmetts underwear, here is what Eli had to say on hunttalk:
"I know the research has shown that the largest antelope that are killed are usually in the 3 or 4 year old range, but I've got a very strong inclination that the largest bucks will be 4 years old and not 3 years old. Also, I believe that the majority of antelope will start to regress in their horn size once they hit 5 years - the amount is dependent on a lot of factors. The problem is that most 3 year olds, because this is the year they start to become really big, will get killed during the season and never make it to 4 years old."
Do you believe Eli regarding this discussion? Seems to line up nearly identical to what I've stated here...yes?
Not sure its appropriate to post the link to hunttalk but the entire thread has a ton of information on pronghorn age and where they're the best. You can search over there for "new worlds record antelope" and find it.
What the heck, if Scott or the admins want to yank the link...no big deal. Lots of talk about accuracy in Matson Lab results, obvious errors, etc.
Eli and I are on the same page. His analysis lines up on why the best bucks we've shot here are all 4+ years old:
New World's Record Antelope
My new favorite thing to do is photograph as many two year old pronghorn as I possibly can and try to pick through them and figure out which one is going to be the biggest the next season! It's actually turning out to be easier than I thought it would be. I've nailed two bucks so far, but I've...
www.hunttalk.com
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Back on topic...I think central Wyoming units are going to be good this year from what I've been seeing and hearing.
Was out all day yesterday looking over a couple units before my final decision on a unit to apply for.
Lots of stuff this size and good prongs seemed to be the norm:
A buck worth watching, if not this year, next:
Fawns are just now dropping, in fact, watched the second of this pair of twin be born last night just before dark:
Saw only 3 other does with fawns (all twins), and saw lots and lots of does that looked like they were about to explode.
Was out all day yesterday looking over a couple units before my final decision on a unit to apply for.
Lots of stuff this size and good prongs seemed to be the norm:
A buck worth watching, if not this year, next:
Fawns are just now dropping, in fact, watched the second of this pair of twin be born last night just before dark:
Saw only 3 other does with fawns (all twins), and saw lots and lots of does that looked like they were about to explode.
Bonecollector
Veteran member
Very interesting debate or so it started until this comment. As an unbiased third-party I see the point you’re both trying to make and they are obviously different. Buzz – I don’t believe Jim is disagreeing with you but stating some further research. Take this additional intel and learn from it and move on. He is not stating anything inaccurate. It just doesn’t line up with your boots on the ground experience. You and your family have shot some fantastic animals.
You bring a lot of good information to the table but we should always be open to others research and criticism. No one knows it all. Work on your delivery and less people will block you or leave the site which has greatly diminished over the past several years. We need to keep knowledgeable members as well as bring a new generation forward and this won’t do. Good luck to you this year. I hope to be chasing my 1st B&C antelope in the next 2 years.
Buzz, I agree with you that there are a lot of 4 1/2 year old B&C bucks from Wyo. Twist and twirl things all you want but there are more B&C 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 year old B&C bucks harvested in Wyo and the Western US than you may think! I guess we will agree to disagree on this?
Let's go back to your original response to my post...."I doubt there's many, if any B&C bucks in Wyoming that are 2 years old...probably a handful at 3 years old. A vast, vast majority are 4+.
Let's go back to your original response to my post...."I doubt there's many, if any B&C bucks in Wyoming that are 2 years old...probably a handful at 3 years old. A vast, vast majority are 4+.
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For all it's worth.....Grimmetts post on hunttalk was back in 2005 when he was guiding in NM and AZ. He started guiding in Wyoming in 2006.
JM77
Member
This is all so interesting. Every buck I've taken over 80 and the same within my family, have had all adult front incisors, which means they were 4+ years old. These were taken almost exclusively in central Wyoming within an hour of Casper. Really none of this matters much to me and I am convinced there is no good way to tell what year to hunt a big buck based on weather and drought/ wet year conditions. I can say with surety that late spring storms killed many antelope around Casper, but what bucks I see appear to have slightly above normal growth since the storm.
What's troubling right now is the number of does I see traveling together now without fawns and obviously not pregnant. I did finally see some does with fawns today, but different than what Buzz has seen, all these does had single fawns.
I've always wondered about age and trophy potential of B&C pronghorn bucks. It's been an eye-opener once I started looking into this in more detail. Similar to what Buzz and JM have said I always thought that it took 4 to 6+ years to produce B&C pronghorn bucks but it's been a shocker to learn how quickly antelope buck horns develop and how quickly they reach their potential.
Just because 1 or 2 local guys haven't harvested high scoring YOUNGER B&C bucks doesn't really mean a whole lot. I always try to use solid facts, numbers, and literature to support my comments. I've been compiling a spread sheet with a large list of B&C bucks scoring 82+ B&C that had teeth sent in and aged. Believe it or not there are 2 1/2 year old bucks that have made the all-time list and a few 2 1/2 year old bucks have scored over the 90" mark! That seems hard to believe but is a true fact!
You Wyo boys would be pretty surprised how many 2 and 3 year old bucks have actually been harvested in Wyo that score 82+ B&C. These bucks may or may not be where you have been hunting? It may be a shocker to some of you but there is a similar number of B&C bucks in the 2 to 3 year old age class as 5 to 6 years olds. There have been at least 3 x 90+ B&C 3 year old bucks from Wyo and 18 x 2 to 3 year old 89+ B&C bucks harvested from the Western US! That's totally amazing if you ask me! WOW!
I also compiled a large spread sheet of 82+ B&C bucks harvested and tooth-aged from several Western states. One of the interesting things I noticed is there are 3x more alltime B&C 3 year old bucks than 6 and 7 year old bucks combined. There are an equal number of 3 year bucks and 5 to 7 year old bucks. That pretty much tells me that antelope bucks often reach their peak at 4 to 5 years of age and scores tend to decrease at ages over 5 years of age. There are a similar number of 2 year old 82+ bucks to 6 - 7 year olds.
Another interesting statistic from the spread sheet is that 36% of total bucks scoring 90+ B&C were 2 to 3 years of age while only 4% were 6+ years of age. Pretty interesting how many young bucks score so well!
What does this mean to a trophy antelope hunter? I believe it's super important to keep tabs on factors and conditions I mentioned in a couple other posts over a 2 to 4 period of time. These local factors and conditions play a major role in horn growth on bucks in any particular region....especially the first 2 years of their lives that can make or break their potential scores for the. As I've mentioned several times before healthy does translates to healthy buck fawns. Healthy habitat often translates in healthier pronghorn. Healthy buck fawns translate to more massive horn bases from the year they are born for the remainder of their life.
Obviously conditions change from one year to the next. Sometimes it pays off to keep tabs on local conditions and change up strategies to improve your odds of harvesting a B&C. If you have waited 15 years for a tag it may be worth it to know exactly what has been going on in a particular unit the last few years before burning all your hard-earned pref pts! I know quite a few hunters over the years that have drawn premium antelope tags in Wyo and have been super disappointed when they weren't able to find many...if any trophy bucks. Believe me, this happens a lot more often than you may think! Obviously if you draw a premium tag and put forth a lot of time, boot leather, and effort you will likely be rewarded...but some years there may not be B&C bucks available even in top end units. There may be a different unit in a different region that's had prime conditions the past 3 to 4 years that has a lot more potential than possibly even a premium unit. It's always fun having the problem of picking and choosing between several 80 to 85" B&C bucks rather than spending an entire season searching for 1 B&C that "may" or "may not" exist in a unit.
Anyway, I thought I'd share a few things I've learned from the B&C spread sheet. Pretty amazing stuff that has changed the way I research and scout trophy units in Wyo and elsewhere.
Just because 1 or 2 local guys haven't harvested high scoring YOUNGER B&C bucks doesn't really mean a whole lot. I always try to use solid facts, numbers, and literature to support my comments. I've been compiling a spread sheet with a large list of B&C bucks scoring 82+ B&C that had teeth sent in and aged. Believe it or not there are 2 1/2 year old bucks that have made the all-time list and a few 2 1/2 year old bucks have scored over the 90" mark! That seems hard to believe but is a true fact!
You Wyo boys would be pretty surprised how many 2 and 3 year old bucks have actually been harvested in Wyo that score 82+ B&C. These bucks may or may not be where you have been hunting? It may be a shocker to some of you but there is a similar number of B&C bucks in the 2 to 3 year old age class as 5 to 6 years olds. There have been at least 3 x 90+ B&C 3 year old bucks from Wyo and 18 x 2 to 3 year old 89+ B&C bucks harvested from the Western US! That's totally amazing if you ask me! WOW!
I also compiled a large spread sheet of 82+ B&C bucks harvested and tooth-aged from several Western states. One of the interesting things I noticed is there are 3x more alltime B&C 3 year old bucks than 6 and 7 year old bucks combined. There are an equal number of 3 year bucks and 5 to 7 year old bucks. That pretty much tells me that antelope bucks often reach their peak at 4 to 5 years of age and scores tend to decrease at ages over 5 years of age. There are a similar number of 2 year old 82+ bucks to 6 - 7 year olds.
Another interesting statistic from the spread sheet is that 36% of total bucks scoring 90+ B&C were 2 to 3 years of age while only 4% were 6+ years of age. Pretty interesting how many young bucks score so well!
What does this mean to a trophy antelope hunter? I believe it's super important to keep tabs on factors and conditions I mentioned in a couple other posts over a 2 to 4 period of time. These local factors and conditions play a major role in horn growth on bucks in any particular region....especially the first 2 years of their lives that can make or break their potential scores for the. As I've mentioned several times before healthy does translates to healthy buck fawns. Healthy habitat often translates in healthier pronghorn. Healthy buck fawns translate to more massive horn bases from the year they are born for the remainder of their life.
Obviously conditions change from one year to the next. Sometimes it pays off to keep tabs on local conditions and change up strategies to improve your odds of harvesting a B&C. If you have waited 15 years for a tag it may be worth it to know exactly what has been going on in a particular unit the last few years before burning all your hard-earned pref pts! I know quite a few hunters over the years that have drawn premium antelope tags in Wyo and have been super disappointed when they weren't able to find many...if any trophy bucks. Believe me, this happens a lot more often than you may think! Obviously if you draw a premium tag and put forth a lot of time, boot leather, and effort you will likely be rewarded...but some years there may not be B&C bucks available even in top end units. There may be a different unit in a different region that's had prime conditions the past 3 to 4 years that has a lot more potential than possibly even a premium unit. It's always fun having the problem of picking and choosing between several 80 to 85" B&C bucks rather than spending an entire season searching for 1 B&C that "may" or "may not" exist in a unit.
Anyway, I thought I'd share a few things I've learned from the B&C spread sheet. Pretty amazing stuff that has changed the way I research and scout trophy units in Wyo and elsewhere.