Outfitters selling info

[Ikeepitcold]

I was just listening to a podcast from another host not Eastmans Elevated discussing some outfitters that will sell info to clients. Specific Info like where to glass from, canyons to hunt in, and where to look for the specific species your hunting.

What's your opinion on this?

 

[Hilltop]

Area game wardens typically provide this information for free if people ask nicely. I have no issue with it I guess but I find it hard to believe people will pay for it? I would view this as a semi-guided hunt.

 

[meathunter]

I see no problem with it for outfitters, their guides doing it would be another thing. The outfitter would be smart to keep their own honey holes.

 

[Never in Doubt]

It's not for me, but I could see it being good for some people. Specifically new hunters, or hunters with a physical limitation. People that either can't afford a fully guided hunt, but feel they need some kind of help.

But a lot of this information is available for free from other hunters, locals, and people in the industry. You don't necessarily have to pay for it.

That being said, I would be pissed to go to 'my spot' and find out an outfitter sold 10 people on that spot haha.

 

[swampokie]

I have issue with the people that pay for this crap. I get sick of hearing about this kinda mess. What is happening to hunting? Get off ur lazy butt and do a little scouting. The scouting and adventure will equip u with the skills needed to find the animals yourself without paying someone to tell u to glass here or there. Come on! Just hunt!!!!

 

[JimP]

Some people don't have the time to get out and do that kind of scouting not to mention that if it is a out of state hunt they might only have a chance to get to the hunting area once before their hunt starts.

It is not much different than actually hiring a outfitter. When you hire a outfitter you are paying for his knowelege of the area and the animal movements at certain times of the year. So now they are offering advise to hunters on where to go, and instead of having to provide a camp for them they are giving advise on where to go. There is also no difference between that and a person asking on a forum such as this one except that they are getting paid for their advise instead of giving it out free.

It is my understanding that Wyoming is trying to pass a law that will restrict this type of business. But all I have heard about it is through other forums.

 

[swampokie]

Some people don't have the time to get out and do that kind of scouting not to mention that if it is a out of state hunt they might only have a chance to get to the hunting area once before their hunt starts.

It is not much different than actually hiring a outfitter. When you hire a outfitter you are paying for his knowelege of the area and the animal movements at certain times of the year. So now they are offering advise to hunters on where to go, and instead of having to provide a camp for them they are giving advise on where to go. There is also no difference between that and a person asking on a forum such as this one except that they are getting paid for their advise instead of giving it out free.

It is my understanding that Wyoming is trying to pass a law that will restrict this type of business. But all I have heard about it is through other forums.

I out of state hunt every year with usually fair success. I hardly ever get to pre scout an area. I still think a TRUE hunter and outdoorsman can find the animals if they are there. Just my opinion but I don't think you should buy a tag in a unit that u have to purchase info on. Again just my opinion but a strong opinion on the topic.

 

[Never in Doubt]

I out of state hunt every year with usually fair success. I hardly ever get to pre scout an area. I still think a TRUE hunter and outdoorsman can find the animals if they are there. Just my opinion but I don't think you should buy a tag in a unit that u have to purchase info on. Again just my opinion but a strong opinion on the topic.

You sound like a really good hunter, congratulations man!

 

[Gr8bawana]

]Some people don't have the time to get out and do that kind of scouting not to mention that if it is a out of state hunt they might only have a chance to get to the hunting area once before their hunt starts.
[/B]
It is not much different than actually hiring a outfitter. When you hire a outfitter you are paying for his knowelege of the area and the animal movements at certain times of the year. So now they are offering advise to hunters on where to go, and instead of having to provide a camp for them they are giving advise on where to go. There is also no difference between that and a person asking on a forum such as this one except that they are getting paid for their advise instead of giving it out free.

It is my understanding that Wyoming is trying to pass a law that will restrict this type of business. But all I have heard about it is through other forums.

This may or may not be true. I suspect that many are just too lazy to do the actual hunting part of a hunt. To many so called "hunters" the only thing that matters is pulling the trigger. They don't want to put in the work, just post a pic on social media of the results.

 

[BuzzH]

Some people don't have the time to get out and do that kind of scouting not to mention that if it is a out of state hunt they might only have a chance to get to the hunting area once before their hunt starts.

It is not much different than actually hiring a outfitter. When you hire a outfitter you are paying for his knowelege of the area and the animal movements at certain times of the year. So now they are offering advise to hunters on where to go, and instead of having to provide a camp for them they are giving advise on where to go. There is also no difference between that and a person asking on a forum such as this one except that they are getting paid for their advise instead of giving it out free.

It is my understanding that Wyoming is trying to pass a law that will restrict this type of business. But all I have heard about it is through other forums.

I just don't agree with this statement.

Its not my problem that somebody else doesn't have time to get out and scout, or that they apply for out of state tags. If you don't have the time to commit, don't apply. That simple.

In any given year, I hunt 3-5 states for a variety of species. I do my own research and depending on the tag, show up at least 3-4 days early. If I don't have the time, or anticipate I don't have the time, I don't apply. If my research and scouting isn't good enough, so be it, I get an experience and learn from it. That's what matters most to me anyway, the experience and challenge of hunting new species, new areas, and learning all along the way.

However, its a pretty rare bird when I don't have multiple opportunities at whatever I'm hunting, wherever that may be.

The people that are selling and buying the information are both equally worthless in my book, I draw no distinction between the two. Both are cheapening the experience and hunting for all the wrong reasons. No use trying to convince me otherwise.

Yes, Wyoming is going to pass either legislation or regulation to prohibit this and every state would be wise to do the same. The current bill is not good legislation and will likely not pass this session as it simply doesn't go far enough. The current bill actually legitimizes the practice of buying and selling information...that wont work.

The bill or regulation needs to completely prohibit the selling and buying of information by EVERYONE, including outfitters.

That's the regulation and/or legislation that I'm going to be pursuing...enough is enough.

 

[MTHusker]

I just don't agree with this statement.

Its not my problem that somebody else doesn't have time to get out and scout, or that they apply for out of state tags. If you don't have the time to commit, don't apply. That simple.

In any given year, I hunt 3-5 states for a variety of species. I do my own research and depending on the tag, show up at least 3-4 days early. If I don't have the time, or anticipate I don't have the time, I don't apply. If my research and scouting isn't good enough, so be it, I get an experience and learn from it. That's what matters most to me anyway, the experience and challenge of hunting new species, new areas, and learning all along the way.

However, its a pretty rare bird when I don't have multiple opportunities at whatever I'm hunting, wherever that may be.

The people that are selling and buying the information are both equally worthless in my book, I draw no distinction between the two. Both are cheapening the experience and hunting for all the wrong reasons. No use trying to convince me otherwise.

Yes, Wyoming is going to pass either legislation or regulation to prohibit this and every state would be wise to do the same. The current bill is not good legislation and will likely not pass this session as it simply doesn't go far enough. The current bill actually legitimizes the practice of buying and selling information...that wont work.

The bill or regulation needs to completely prohibit the selling and buying of information by EVERYONE, including outfitters.

That's the regulation and/or legislation that I'm going to be pursuing...enough is enough.

I see one little flaw with this legislation, 1st. Amendment. You may or may not agree with it, but they do have the right. Do we really need the government deciding what a person can tell others? Even if the others wish to buy it?

 

[BuzzH]

I see one little flaw with this legislation, 1st. Amendment. You may or may not agree with it, but they do have the right.

Not true, in particular if its in regulation. There is other legislation that does the exact same thing in regard to GPS and radio collar data on big-game. Its going to sail through the legislature.

But carry on with the 1st amendment argument...straw grasping, best case.

Not to mention that nobody is being singled out, they can tell anyone they want, anytime they want, about anything they want...just cant charge money for it in regard to hunting trophy and big-game.

Nobody is taking away anyone's 1st amendment rights...savvy?

 

[MTHusker]

I guess i have a different opinion of what the 1st Amendment say's then you.

 

[buckbull]

While I personally would never sell or buy gps coordinates for hunting, as I see it, these are the current options.
1. Fully guided hunt - Outfitter takes you by the hand to gps coordinates.
2. Drop camp - Outfitter drops you off at gps coordinated camp and tells you where to go, basically giving you gps coordinates.
3. Outfitter gives you gps coordinates in an email.

About the only distinguishing factor I see is that at least for options 1 and 2, the outfitter is limited on number of hunters. Option 3, the outfitter could sell the same gps coordinates to 200 guys. Option 1&2 typically only require a down payment and service is paid in full after hunt; giving hunters recourse for bad service, etc. Option 3 would require payment in full and no recourse if 200 hunters are all scouting from the same gps coordinate.

 

[JimP]

While I personally would never sell or buy gps coordinates for hunting, as I see it, these are the current options.
1. Fully guided hunt - Outfitter takes you by the hand to gps coordinates.
2. Drop camp - Outfitter drops you off at gps coordinated camp and tells you where to go, basically giving you gps coordinates.
3. Outfitter gives you gps coordinates in an email.

About the only distinguishing factor I see is that at least for options 1 and 2, the outfitter is limited on number of hunters. Option 3, the outfitter could sell the same gps coordinates to 200 guys. Option 1&2 typically only require a down payment and service is paid in full after hunt; giving hunters recourse for bad service, etc. Option 3 would require payment in full and no recourse if 200 hunters are all scouting from the same gps coordinate.

So what if there are only 100 tags offered for the unit where the outfitter sold 200 locations? What if it takes 15+ years for a person to draw that tag to be 1 of those 100 that draws that year? Those that I see buying these locations are going to be from out of state and more than likely unable to get out to scout, so they just have a location. If you did put 200 people into that same location even over a couple of weeks odds are that the animals will move out quite quickly.

How do most of you feel about outfitters in general? Are then needed or are they someone that needs to be just tolerated? What about the law in Wyoming where a non resident needs to hire a outfitter if hunting in a wilderness?

I have used a outfitter when the hunt that I was going on was too far to do any real scouting. I have also used one when it was required by law. I have also gone on out of state hunts where the first few days or week were spent wandering around having no idea of really where to look for the animal that I was after with no success the first year. Then when I went back the second year I did a lot better after learning a lot about the area.

On the information side of this discussion, how many of you have offered free information to a member that just joined when they sent you a PM? I just got one the other day and I am sure that there are a lot others on here that got the same PM. What is the difference besides not asking for any money here?

 

[CrimsonArrow]

While I personally would never sell or buy gps coordinates for hunting, as I see it, these are the current options.
1. Fully guided hunt - Outfitter takes you by the hand to gps coordinates.
2. Drop camp - Outfitter drops you off at gps coordinated camp and tells you where to go, basically giving you gps coordinates.
3. Outfitter gives you gps coordinates in an email.

About the only distinguishing factor I see is that at least for options 1 and 2, the outfitter is limited on number of hunters. Option 3, the outfitter could sell the same gps coordinates to 200 guys. Option 1&2 typically only require a down payment and service is paid in full after hunt; giving hunters recourse for bad service, etc. Option 3 would require payment in full and no recourse if 200 hunters are all scouting from the same gps coordinate.

Good point, except that every outfitted hunt I've been on, the outfitter required 1/2 for deposit, and the second 1/2 in cash on arrival. Not much recourse there except whatever tip you might give.

 

[CODAK]

Reasons like this is why I will never use and outfitter. Money to kill an animal should go to conservation, not somebody's pockets. This is why I never sell shed antlers, and if I ever have to, it'd go straight into donations for conservation. I never mind out of state tag prices, because I generally know where the money is going to, and that's allowing me to hunt on public land, chasing fair-chase animals DIY.

 

[bghunter]

Buying info from outfitter is not smart idea for two reason mentioned above, first reason is outfitter will never sell you his primary spots and mostlikely will never sell you spot he is planning to hunt in the future and second, he might sell same info for many hunters.
I have nothing against outfitters, some of them are doing great job but I have been on five guided hunts and I didnt have good experience, they just think about money, lie, and cant wait until the hunt is over. I am planning to go on some outfitted hunts but should be smarter who you are hiring. So far my DIY success rate is higher than guided. Trophy taken with outfitter, high fence, and DIY should be in totally in different category, trophy taken by DIY is hunters trophy, trophy taken with outfitter is outfitters trophy.

 

[MTHusker]

Not true, in particular if its in regulation. There is other legislation that does the exact same thing in regard to GPS and radio collar data on big-game. Its going to sail through the legislature.

But carry on with the 1st amendment argument...straw grasping, best case.

Not to mention that nobody is being singled out, they can tell anyone they want, anytime they want, about anything they want...just cant charge money for it in regard to hunting trophy and big-game.

Nobody is taking away anyone's 1st amendment rights...savvy?

Sure would, savvy. Perhaps do some research on Supreme court rulings, savvy. Your opinion is just that, not fact, savvy.
Also, I find it so sad that you think more government regulations are the answer.

 

[Hilltop]

While I personally would never sell or buy gps coordinates for hunting, as I see it, these are the current options.
1. Fully guided hunt - Outfitter takes you by the hand to gps coordinates.
2. Drop camp - Outfitter drops you off at gps coordinated camp and tells you where to go, basically giving you gps coordinates.
3. Outfitter gives you gps coordinates in an email.

About the only distinguishing factor I see is that at least for options 1 and 2, the outfitter is limited on number of hunters. Option 3, the outfitter could sell the same gps coordinates to 200 guys. Option 1&2 typically only require a down payment and service is paid in full after hunt; giving hunters recourse for bad service, etc. Option 3 would require payment in full and no recourse if 200 hunters are all scouting from the same gps coordinate.

I agree with your options available but the part your missing is that hunts and # of hunters available are limited. For example, out of 100 guys that draw a tag, maybe 10 are willing to pay for some kind of assistance. Maybe that's a guided hunt, a drop camp, or the subject of our discussion. In my eyes, the outfitters stand to lose the most if people are allowed to sell locations/scouting. If 3 of those 10 guys choose that route, they lose 3 higher paying clients. I could be wrong, but I bet the highest opposition is going to be coming from outfitters or organizations that benefit from them...WG&F being one.