I use to think that using a trail cam during hunting season was harmless. I guess it depends how they are used. There are a group of hunters where I'm from that seem to keep staying one step ahead of the elk and 2 steps ahead of everyone else. Every year they go for "a drive" and always seem to run into elk, then call their friends and the get elk too. The strange thing is that this year and last, they found large herds of elk that have never been in the areas for years, even decades. How are they finding these elk and how did they know they were there. My theory is they may have trail cams up all over this land and have them sending photos to their phones or computers. Not sure why they would have cams up in these places since they had never had elk before but did have large deer. I can now see that if they did have trail cams sending pics to phones or computers, how this would be no different than flying a plane and looking for elk and then going to hunt them right away. Not sure this is what this group of hunters is doing but they hunt with no ethics. All of them were involved in a huge big game bust a few years ago and nothing has happened to them as of yet. They do what they want and how they want. It wouldn't be as bad if they were taking a couple elk out of the herd but they usually take about 10-15 at a time. No idea if everyone is there taking their own or they are shooting then calling people to tag them. They got in trouble for that last year.
Use of Trail Cams.
- Thread starter birdhunter
- Start date
laxwyo
Very Active Member
I have never used a trail camera before but I definitely can see how with today's cellular trail cams it wouldn't be much different than someone flying and relaying the coordinates to a hunter on the grounds. Sitting in one stand, you get a photo of a buck that just passed the other camera. Get down and go shoot buck.
Hilltop
Veteran member
In most areas that I hunt elk there is no cell phone signal for one of these trail cam cell phones to work. Not sure how it is in the black hills but I'm betting coverage is limited as the rest of the state is poor. The ethics you mention are bad- no question there. I would caution you to jump to conclusions though. Growing up we had arguably the most successful elk camp around. We hunted hard and learned the country and the elk better than most others did. Naturally we harvested more elk. There were rumors that we did all kinds of things that weren't true. The reality was that we were lucky sometimes but good most of the time. We didn't break the law. The closest we ever came to it came the night before elk season started. We were driving into camp with maybe 5 minutes of light left when a huge bull crossed the road and stood starring at us from 200 yards from camp. I was maybe 18 years old and my best friend was 17. We thought it would have been easy to shoot him and leave him for morning but we didn't... The next morning we both shot elk legally. I remember some of my class mates and others who though otherwise because they had such a hard time even seeing an elk. My message to you is please don't assume when it comes to these matters. Nothing good can come from it. If you have suspicions of illegal activity, the game warden should be the only one to hear them. If you disagree with the game laws, show up at the meeting to voice your opinions.
Not trying to attack you here birdhunter- this just touched a nerve from the past.
Not trying to attack you here birdhunter- this just touched a nerve from the past.
NVBird'n'Big
Veteran member
I'm confused, so these guys and their buddies find and kill awesome elk every year and you know it's from the use of trail cams? Or is the use of trail cams just speculation? Not saying I'm on either side but I would rather not attack people based on an assumption.
Topgun 30-06
Banned
The OP is wrongly making assumptions that are based on other illegal activities the guys were caught at. I think everyone has heard that you can't assume anything because it makes an a.. out of you and me if you believe it. Our small camp of 3-4 hunters has hunted an area in Wyoming for many years and know the elk travel patterns such that we fill tags on a regular basis while other hunters have no idea there are elk anywhere in the area. We don't use trail cameras, but just good old boot leather and a lot of time in the field and that may be exactly what the guys the OP is talking about are doing. Game cameras are legal in Wyoming all year, so they would be doing nothing illegal if they have any number of them out year around. Montana doesn't allow them to be out in the field during any open hunting season and more states may go that route as this technology craze continues.
I'm making an assumption of how they know where the elk are by the use of trail cameras which are legal in Wyoming. I was stating that I now know why some states won't allow them during hunting season. I have also known these group of guys for my whole life as they work at my dad's place of work. Last year, two of them got turned in for one killing more elk than he had tags for and another tagging it illegally. Another 2 got busted for the same thing. All of them got busted 3 or 4 years ago in a major bust by federal agents. Now some of the with land are shooting every going to shoot every animal off their land to get back at the game and fish (so they say). I know making assumptions isn't a good thing. You can come here and ask anyone around about these guys and you will hear the same story. Some hunter turned them in 2 years ago and they found out and he got a gun to the head and death threats. The proof is there, I was just wondering in my mind if they were using trail cams and wanted to know the thoughts about if others thought it was good or not to use them that way.
CrossCreeks
Veteran member
How do they still have license if they were convicted of major game violations ? As far as game cameras I do not use them a whole lot but it is nice to have pics. of big buck coming to your food plot. I have not bought the technology but I think it would be kind neat to have the live feed to computer to see what's going on at your stand while your at work but I would not get much work done !
Fink
Veteran member
Sounds to me like they just scout more, hike further, hunt harder, and are generally more successful than everyone else.
They must be cheaters!!!!!
They must be cheaters!!!!!
waddy
New Member
Wow, that's an amazing amount of anger directed at the OP for simply stating some facts as he knows them and merely asking politely (twice) what others thought about the ethics involved.
NVBird'n'Big
Veteran member
If what this whole thing about is the basic views pro/con on game cams then cool, we've done it before, let's do it again. I think the path that got us to the argument was just a little speculative and left us forming an opinion on a specific group of hunters without facts. We later found out (I think) that they were actually doing some illegal stuff and the whole thing turned in to a circle jerk.
http://www.eastmans.com/forum/showthread.php/5297-Trail-cam-s
http://www.eastmans.com/forum/showthread.php/5297-Trail-cam-s
Topgun 30-06
Banned
Nobody is expressing any anger here. What we are expressing is the fact that everything the OP stated is speculative about why the group is successful. He has no idea whether they are using game cameras or not and even if they are it is legal to do so even during the hunting seasons in Wyoming. The OP also claims they were involved in various game law violations over the past few years, including a major bust by the Feds. However, it appears there have been no convictions. If there were they probably wouldn't have any legal licenses to be hunting in Wyoming or the other 38 states that are in the Wildlife Violator Compact!
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No convictions yet. It is still being investigated further. A few have been charged with the lacey act violations. Selling landowner tags, helping transport across state lines. They cant hunt for a while. No hiking for these guys either. I guess you would have to know the black hills area to understand how someone could do that. Logging roads everywhere. No tree lines to get above. Very unique hunting area.
Anyways, my thought on the whole thing is that it is legal to use cameras here. I was stating that I can see how & understand now why they are illegal in some states. I don't mind people using trail cams, just if they are used fairly.
I think trail cams are a way of scouting without having to put in the work or time of actual scouting. What happened to the days of going somewhere you found sign and sitting and watching to see what actually comes in? Yea I know it takes a lot of time, but that is what hunting is all about. Not just instant gratification that everybody wants in today's society.
I use trail cams set on water sources. I had 2 this year up for 3 months and during when I hunted. I had bucks comin in all summer and knew most of them. I hunted 10 days this year for one buck. Knew his pattern, found him last year by walking and glassing. Never even got a shot at him. Had him in now range once. I had 3 new bucks move in during season that I had no pics of. In fact I am gonna deploy 4 cameras next year.
I love checking them and getting pics. It helps me know the age class of bucks, what the numbers are in the area and what size bucks to expect.
Trail cameras are a great tool, but they in no way even guarantee success. I could see it being okay with not using it during season, but trail cameras in no way shape or form guarantee success. Good ole scouting ahead of time and hunting each season gaining knowledge is what guarantees higher success. Trail cameras do not unless you sit water imo.
I love checking them and getting pics. It helps me know the age class of bucks, what the numbers are in the area and what size bucks to expect.
Trail cameras are a great tool, but they in no way even guarantee success. I could see it being okay with not using it during season, but trail cameras in no way shape or form guarantee success. Good ole scouting ahead of time and hunting each season gaining knowledge is what guarantees higher success. Trail cameras do not unless you sit water imo.
Matthoek21
Veteran member
Honestly another reason here in the south is it is so thick with trees and brush. We can't sit back on a ridge and glass up bucks. It's our way of seeing if an area holds decent deer. We all do other forms of scouting as well but trust me this cuts down on wasting time in an area that may not be very good. There is a saying "you can be the best turkey caller in the world but if there are no turkeys you're not going to kill one". Same for elk, deer, or anything. What may look good may not hold much quantity or quality. All things are "relative" just remember. Private ground and trail cameras in the south and east don't necessarily equate to shooting great bucks every year. Big blocks of private and management are key along with a little agriculture. Guarantee I don't need trail cameras in some places in the Midwest. All the bucks I've killed there were never the product of a trail camera. However, the 9 point I shot recently I had a picture of the day before, but the reason we hung a trail camera is because of the size of rubs in there. We did scout to know where to hang camera. Just talking for my situations. However I have know problem with different states having a different law on this. It just helps where I hunt.
^^^add onto that. I find ground scrapes in those thickets (or make my own) and can usually pick up the majority of bucks that are in the area or move into the area over the course of the season. It can be exciting to see the results and disheartening all at the same time. So far this year I can't find anything that meets my self-imposed age requirement that isn't injured or just a product of bad genetics, but I have some stud 3 & 4yos for the area to look forward to.
NVBird'n'Big
Veteran member
Hahahahaha I was out antelope scouting a few years ago and was taking a leak, looked up and saw a camera lookin right at me about 20 yards away, I just laughedOne thing that bothers me is that with the number of trail cams all over the countryside you can't even take a crap behind a tree without
worrying someone is going to have it on film.
