WY Outfitters Want More NR Elk Tags
- Thread starter Maxhunter
- Start date
WapitiBob
Veteran member
NDHunter
Veteran member
I'm a NR and don't think NR's should get more tags. WY is already pretty damn generous with their tags to NRs. I don't see how it's fair to want more.
And I get why people don't like the wilderness rule. Of course it's dumb. On the flip side, there are literally millions and millions of acres elsewhere to hunt. If you're going to piss and moan about not being able to go into the wilderness areas and aren't going to hunt WY, that's entirely ON YOU.
And I get why people don't like the wilderness rule. Of course it's dumb. On the flip side, there are literally millions and millions of acres elsewhere to hunt. If you're going to piss and moan about not being able to go into the wilderness areas and aren't going to hunt WY, that's entirely ON YOU.
Slugz
Veteran member
True its on me however......public land is public land......owned by the public.....and should be used.....unfettered by the public......to either run a business ( guide ) or to be hunted in a unrestricted manner (DIY)
That being said that's why I live in Colorado.
That being said that's why I live in Colorado.
JimP
Administrator
While Colorado doesn't have the same kind of law that Wyoming has concerning wilderness the private property laws where they can lock you out of a whole mountain or block access to BLM and Forest Service land come real close.
Slugz
Veteran member
I agree and those need to be fixed......and or opened up by RMEF or other organizations.
Granby guy
Active Member
mustang8
Active Member
Im a non res and only hunted Wyoming once (last year), but have hunted montana, Missouri etc thru the years. One thing I haven't read yet with all the responses is, wouldn't the easiest way for outfitters to get more clients to be just dropping their prices a little bit? We have been putting in for elk PP's for 2 years now hoping that with 5 pts we can do some sort of an elk hunt in a few years. Yes we have obviously looked into pricing for outfitters and they are pretty dang high. I say leave the tag #'s alone and if they need more $ drop the prices, more people with tags will then be calling. Just my perspective.
Wyoming Hart
Very Active Member
While I agree with you, I'm afraid it will take a long time before they drop prices. They are pricing most people out of an elk hunt and I believe this is why the DIY approach is getting more popular.
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
All the western states are pretty much that way. Private property owners can do almost anything they want to do when it comes to public access, even if they totally surround public land and block access. Not much we can do about it either.
There are several NR discriminatory laws that CO has. For starters, how many RFW tags can NR apply for? That's what I thought, none.
Of course the other "great" thing is that the public lands within a RFW property are also not able to be hunted with anything but a RFW tag, even if there is legal access to the BLM.
State lands in CO are a joke too...lease holders can deny public access.
People like the complain and whine about the WY wilderness guide law here (*which I agree sucks), but there are ways around it without paying an outfitter a penny.
Hunting a RFW place in CO, accessing public lands legally within their border, and State lands, I have no options as a NR.
Greetings from Denver! I am a new member but have been following the forum for some time. I had to comment on this topic. I have hunted big game in CO for 25+ years and have seen a dramatic change in tag allocation in our state. Tags USED to be much easier to obtain for residents but since the CO Division of Wildlife merged with the Parks Dept. they have obviously become more interested in revenue than taking care of residents. Every year we see more non-Resident tags being issued and less for "in-staters". This is especially true when it comes to "trophy units". It is not uncommon for us and Residents to wait 25+ years for a bull tag in one of these units. I know it takes money to keep the machine running, but at what cost? Here, we are seeing hunting becoming a deep pocket, high dollar experience, rather than what many families did every year to feed their family. I am fortunate that my boys and I have been able to harvest many animals over the years but I am deeply concerned for the future of big game hunting for my family. I am certainly not opposed to non-Resident hunting but I feel the Division is catering to non-Residents over the common, in-state hunter. It is pretty sad when we are traveling to other states because tags are easily obtained outside of the state. I would rather spend my money here.
JimP
Administrator
Coelkhntr welcome to the site.
If you study the statistics page on the Parks and Wildlife page you will see that the problem with resident hunters is the sheer number of hunters that want to hunt in these premium units. Sure the CP&W could issue more resident tags but at what cost to the wildlife? I drew a unit 61 muzzle loader elk tag a couple of years ago with 17 points, it still takes around 16-17 if you want a tag. The rifle tags take even fewer. Now if you want to hunt up in the northwest corner then you better decide to wait 20+ years for that ML tag.
As for the non residents the CP&W has a formula that they use to decide on how many NR tags to let out and it is based on the number of preference points it takes to draw that unit. They have how they do it in the hunting application guide.
The biggest problem is that there are only so many animals and the number of hunters that want to hunt them is increasing. Perhaps not by much but it is increasing on both the resident and non resident side. The end result is the famous point creep. What took only 5 points a few years ago now takes 10 points and it is only going to get worse.
If you study the statistics page on the Parks and Wildlife page you will see that the problem with resident hunters is the sheer number of hunters that want to hunt in these premium units. Sure the CP&W could issue more resident tags but at what cost to the wildlife? I drew a unit 61 muzzle loader elk tag a couple of years ago with 17 points, it still takes around 16-17 if you want a tag. The rifle tags take even fewer. Now if you want to hunt up in the northwest corner then you better decide to wait 20+ years for that ML tag.
As for the non residents the CP&W has a formula that they use to decide on how many NR tags to let out and it is based on the number of preference points it takes to draw that unit. They have how they do it in the hunting application guide.
The biggest problem is that there are only so many animals and the number of hunters that want to hunt them is increasing. Perhaps not by much but it is increasing on both the resident and non resident side. The end result is the famous point creep. What took only 5 points a few years ago now takes 10 points and it is only going to get worse.
alaska2go
Active Member
welcome to the new era of hunting !!!!
It has turn into a similar sport like golf. Only the wealthy get to play on the best courses available. While the rest of us working smucks get to hunt the burned up greens & fairways .....
It has turn into a similar sport like golf. Only the wealthy get to play on the best courses available. While the rest of us working smucks get to hunt the burned up greens & fairways .....
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
I've hunted RFW units for elk twice and was no bargin for the points it took. The owners/outfitters who own & hunt the RWF property set their own seasons within a framework set by the state. Their paid clients get the best dates with the RFW getting whats left. Both times the ranches I hunted had been hunted hard by the outfitter and our hunting was pretty sad. I'll never apply for a RFW tag again.
At least here in Colorado the public can hunt almost all of the accessible BLM & State owned land even if there are grazing leases on them, not so in Wyoming.
Not true, in CO, if the CDOW doesn't lease the hunting rights on State land, the public can not hunt them.
As to WY, there are no federal BLM lands that allow a lease holder to deny access that I'm aware of.
Accessible state lands are ALL open to the public, with the exception of cultivated row crops on State land. Currently ONLY the cultivated portion of a section is off limits to hunting, you can hunt the portion that doesn't have row crops. Also, even row cropped State lands are open for hiking, bird watching, everything but hunting and fishing. For the record there are about 16K-18K acres of road accessible State lands that are row cropped and off limits to hunting and fishing. Just last week, myself and another WYBHA board member had a meeting with the OSLI office to discuss opening that up to walk-in only hunting and fishing.
You can also fly into State land now and hunt there the same day you fly. Before JM77 and I got the aircraft regulations changed, it was impossible to legally fly into State land and hunt it because of the 24 hour wait and NO CAMPING rule on State lands.
mustang8
Active Member
"As to WY, there are no federal BLM lands that allow a lease holder to deny access that I'm aware of."
So your saying if the land is land locked in WY the lease holder has to let you thru to access the BLM? If im reading that correctly I don't believe it. I met people this last year that paid pretty big $ just for trespass fees, to walk thru the property and access BLM. If I mis read the post sorry.
So your saying if the land is land locked in WY the lease holder has to let you thru to access the BLM? If im reading that correctly I don't believe it. I met people this last year that paid pretty big $ just for trespass fees, to walk thru the property and access BLM. If I mis read the post sorry.
No, not what I'm saying and you're right it was unclear. If there is a legal access point a lessee cannot deny the public access to the BLM. You can also fly into BLM that doesn't have road access.