WY - Moose - Preference Points
- Thread starter ElkUpHigh
- Start date
Zim
Very Active Member
Very simple. Go to the WYG&F website. Find the table listing moose point holders. Now go find the yearly quota of moose tags distributed. If you do the math you will discover for guys without at least 7 or 8 points now it's a horrible investment. The current 11 point pool is gigantic and these guys are now coming out of the "points only" game targeting the mid-tier units. It will take 10 years just to purge the 11 point pool. And that is IF the wolf problem stabilizes now.
The WYG&F knows this. That is why they were probing the notion of screwing us 11 point holders by diluting the 75/25 split to 50/50. I lowered my choice and applied for a unit that had 100% draw for guys at my level in an effort to burn my points and get off their $75/year treadmill. No doubt others will figure this out and do the same thing so I won't draw anyway.
Anybody who tells you otherwise hasn't studied the stats or is drinking HF KoolAid.
The WYG&F knows this. That is why they were probing the notion of screwing us 11 point holders by diluting the 75/25 split to 50/50. I lowered my choice and applied for a unit that had 100% draw for guys at my level in an effort to burn my points and get off their $75/year treadmill. No doubt others will figure this out and do the same thing so I won't draw anyway.
Anybody who tells you otherwise hasn't studied the stats or is drinking HF KoolAid.
NDHunter
Veteran member
I'm fairly new to the western big game app's but have spent a lot of time researching everything so I have a little bit of an idea of what to expect. Last night, using the MRS section for WY moose in 2010, there were roughly 1,250 non-resident applications for I think 76 moose tags. So with those numbers, there are close to 16 years worth of non-resident applicants in the system. Assuming things don't change much, you will probably need at least 10 points or so to pull a tag in the future, maybe a few more if the wolves keep reducing the tags available. So you are looking at $75 a year for maybe 10, hopefully not more than 15 years. And I think the timeframe is similar to that for residents, maybe a few years more. With that said, I will be buying my first moose point this year for WY. I will probably spend close to $1,000 in points, and the tag in 10 years might be another $2,000. Is it a waste of money? Not if you REALLY want to hunt moose. Is it expensive? Hell yes!
That is just my perspective. Hopefully someone else will have some more insight into this.
That is just my perspective. Hopefully someone else will have some more insight into this.
NDHunter
Veteran member
Ok, well Zim's post wasnt up before I started typing.....I guess i need to take a closer look at this too.
- Feb 21, 2011
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Zim is right. If they do change the split to 50/50 it would change the outlook tremendously for those of use with points. Based on what the guys I know at the G&F have told me, they would be really surprised to see that go through. I think they might amend it to 70/30 and maybe a long shot of 60/40 but not 50/50. I think they test this stuff out at the highest level they would ever consider and measure the public feedback and then back it off from there in the actual change. Beaurocrats at work. Over shoot the target then compromise it down to make everyone feel good about getting screwed!!!!
Apparently, they are losing applicants once they draw a tag they are not re-applying again after the waiting period. Arizona is having the same problem. The whole draw one tag then out of the game. Unintended consequences of tough draw odds, expensive application and strict expensive point system.
The worst thing these states ever figured out, was how to make money on applications without giving out tags. It should be illegal to collect money for just a place in line. This will not be the end of it. The states are relying on this income more and more each year. Some of them are beginning to test the threshold of non-resident's financial breaking point. There seems to be no end to it.
Apparently, they are losing applicants once they draw a tag they are not re-applying again after the waiting period. Arizona is having the same problem. The whole draw one tag then out of the game. Unintended consequences of tough draw odds, expensive application and strict expensive point system.
The worst thing these states ever figured out, was how to make money on applications without giving out tags. It should be illegal to collect money for just a place in line. This will not be the end of it. The states are relying on this income more and more each year. Some of them are beginning to test the threshold of non-resident's financial breaking point. There seems to be no end to it.
Zim
Very Active Member
"The worst thing these states ever figured out, was how to make money on applications without giving out tags. It should be illegal to collect money for just a place in line. This will not be the end of it. The states are relying on this income more and more each year. Some of them are beginning to test the threshold of non-resident's financial breaking point. There seems to be no end to it."
Bingo. Couldn't have said it better. Sums up everything in a nutshell.
Bingo. Couldn't have said it better. Sums up everything in a nutshell.
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Zim
Very Active Member
Even if they go 70/30 or 60/40 they would be cheapening my 11 points considerably considering the size of the pool I must compete with. Heck, I fully expect much more competition this year for all the mid-tier units as the masses of fellow 11 point poolers come out. Last year my odds for unit 23 went down from 23% to 5% or something due solely to just SOME of the 11 pointers coming out.
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- Feb 21, 2011
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The good news is, there's only 178 people with more points than you (12 pts.+), the bad news is there's almost 550 NRs in the 11 point pool. I get that question a lot lately at shows, guys wanting to burn their points out and just go moose hunting. They are tired of waiting for a tag, as the wolves eat away at the resource. I think the next couple of years is going to be interesting in the Sheep and Moose draw stats.
NDHunter
Veteran member
Zim or Guy, do you have a link to the WY website that shows how many guys have however many points? I can't seem to find it. Is it worth it if you are just starting out to buy points, even if you are under 30? Earlier today, i thought it was, now im not so sure. Am I right in what i posted earlier, with their being roughly 1,250 non-residents in the pool, or is that number significantly higher? Assuming the G&F doesn't change the rules and I have a 10-15 year wait, I am fine with that.
Zim
Very Active Member
NDH, Very easy to answer your question. At $75/Year?...............Hell NO.
Just go do a combo walleye/moose fall trip cheap in Ontario now.
Here's your point chart: http://gf.state.wy.us/downloads/pdf/TotalPreferencePointsMS2010.pdf
Just go do a combo walleye/moose fall trip cheap in Ontario now.
Here's your point chart: http://gf.state.wy.us/downloads/pdf/TotalPreferencePointsMS2010.pdf
Elkoholic307
Banned
This is depressing but true. I wonder how long of a wait it will be for someone who already has 10 points? I haven't consider burning my points but maybe I ought to do the math and figure something out..
Zim
Very Active Member
You really have to wonder how things will be 10 years from now as all these point schemes blow up like this. It is alarming a guy with 10 points has to worry about such things but that is reality. Sometimes I wonder if folks in Washington will take notice how the states are prostituting public land and put some limit on it. I definitely believe states should manage their own wildlife but his is getting rediculous. Ultimately it seems their answer is to convert things into King's Hunting Rules like Utah & now New Mexico?
Who is going to tell all these guys with 0-5 points they are chasing a fantasy? While WYG&F collects $75/year from them.
If I had 10 points I'd try to burn them on a meat hunt and get out before ALL the 11 & 10 point poolers wake up and smell the coffee.
Who is going to tell all these guys with 0-5 points they are chasing a fantasy? While WYG&F collects $75/year from them.
If I had 10 points I'd try to burn them on a meat hunt and get out before ALL the 11 & 10 point poolers wake up and smell the coffee.
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- Feb 21, 2011
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NDH, I think if you really want a Shiras moose Wyoming is about as good an option as there is out there. The only better one might be Idaho as far as draw odds are concerned. There are a total of 8,648 people with preference points in the NR moose system. But what you cannot easily predict is how many of them are waiting for the very best tag or just banking the points. So many guys just gather points to gather points or hold out for the very best area. A NR hunter last fall drew the single NR moose tag around Cody with only six points and killed a bull in the first three days of the hunt. Not too shabby if you ask me. So if you are willing to hunt hard in a less than top unit I really think you will be hunting moose in WY in the next 10-15 years, unless the wolves eat them all of course. Don't get too discouraged. I talked to a guy yesterday that drew a NR WY sheep tag on his first year of applying with 0 points. So it does happen.
Elkoholic307
Banned
True. A high school girl from my wife's hometown drew Area 1 last year with 6 points to her name. That gives me a little bit of hope; and hopefully I see the word 'successful' when the results are posted haha, switching gears... Hey Guy, what do you think about hunting moose in the 'Horns? Are those four areas competitive with the rest of the state, trophy wise?
NDHunter
Veteran member
Man, I agree. I had no idea that there were sooooooooooooo many people in the point pool. Thanks Zim for the link, although you really ruined my day!!! Now I really don't know what I'll do. I agree with Guy that it is really hard to know what guys will do with their points but with 8,600 people ahead of me, it just seems like it'd be awfully tough to pull a tag. Maybe I should just try for the random draw each year...
In my mind, the only thing I have going for myself is that I am 27. Although maybe I'm wrong there too and there are a couple thousand other guys my age that have already started building points. I have no idea. Eventually, I would assume a lot of guys would give up and quit buying points or else theyll get too old to hunt. I wish there was a breakdown of the age of guys that have points, but I'm sure that that data doesn't exist. The more I learn about the big game draws, the more frustrating and EXPENSIVE it becomes.
Zim
Very Active Member
ND Hunter, For those of you guys out there who are undecided but intend to buy a point this year, I'd suggest printing out and saving that list of point holders so you can see how many guys from each pool drop out year to year. I don't know if WYG&F distributes such past records. If they do now I bet they change their policy to conceal it. I have no doubt many PH's will figure things out eventually that they have a MUCH better chance at a Shiras tag dropping out of WY and spending their $75x2 every other year in Idaho.
I was serious when I mentioned Canada. Moose hunts are cheap there. Blowing $75/year for 1% odds is nuts in my book. There is one unit I think 25 where at least you'd have a 5% chance in the random draw. That's about it.
Yikes I hope I draw this year (but I doubt it) and escape this mess.
I was serious when I mentioned Canada. Moose hunts are cheap there. Blowing $75/year for 1% odds is nuts in my book. There is one unit I think 25 where at least you'd have a 5% chance in the random draw. That's about it.
Yikes I hope I draw this year (but I doubt it) and escape this mess.
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- Feb 21, 2011
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307- The Horns have the best moose hunting in the state hands down. The only other place that even remotely compares is the Snowys down in 41/38. They killed a 185+ down there this year with a bow!!!! The western side of the state isn't bad, but used to be much better. The calf count in the Gros Ventre came in at just over 10 calves per 100 cows the other day. By spring that number will be below 10/100 and the biologists say it takes 10 calves per 100 cows just to sustain the herd at a current level. Not a very good sign for the W. Wyoming moose herd.