- Jul 8, 2015
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- 3,257
Wildlife Article On Winter Kills in the west.
- Thread starter mallardsx2
- Start date
that's the cycle of life. it goes on till it don't.
it were bad here but we've seen worst and no doubt ,will again.
the area here with the worst winter kill If&g could not be bothered to feed them. they used to when winters got bad but no more . it's all about the intake of money, not management. and they are to shortsighted to see the money will dry up when the herds decrease or no longer exist.
it were bad here but we've seen worst and no doubt ,will again.
the area here with the worst winter kill If&g could not be bothered to feed them. they used to when winters got bad but no more . it's all about the intake of money, not management. and they are to shortsighted to see the money will dry up when the herds decrease or no longer exist.
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A gross generalization that doesn't accurately reflect the realities of specific areas of the western states. Idaho just reported that their winter kill estimates were too pesimistic, it was bad but not as bad as they predicted. From what I'm reading it looks like Wyoming was hit pretty hard for deer, I don't know about elk. I know that regardless of what the "experts" are saying, I'm seeing more animals than I usually do at this time of year where I live and we got a lot of snow this past winter - our last snow storm was in early June. Some places got deeper snow accumulations than others even though they had similar amounts of snow fall. We saw a lot of snow melt between storms even though we had more total snow fall this past winter.
That article is spot on.
Western Wyoming took a pretty significant hit...as the article said, Montana faired better, Idaho was a mixed bag.
As to feeding deer...doesn't work unless you start feeding them in October. The science is there for those willing to do a google search or talk with any biologist.
The answer is not to feed, but to increase forage production, maintain and improve migration corridors, and improve habitat.
Western Wyoming took a pretty significant hit...as the article said, Montana faired better, Idaho was a mixed bag.
As to feeding deer...doesn't work unless you start feeding them in October. The science is there for those willing to do a google search or talk with any biologist.
The answer is not to feed, but to increase forage production, maintain and improve migration corridors, and improve habitat.
that bit about having to start feeding in october is complete and utter bs.
starting to feed in jan or feb when they are already on their deathbeds MIGHT be to late. certainly won't save em all but even then may still save some. anyone says otherwise is full of poop.
I have no doubt you can probly show some pie chart supporting this lie but it is still a lie. if it were true , no herd would ever survive a brutal winter.
if I were to be wrong , and you right, WHY DO THE WILDLIFE AGENCIES Always wait till around JAN TO START FEEDING????? my only conclusion could be they don't care about game management!
as to your answers to problem. sure those are things to do but cannot always be done. folks want their houses mor'n they want their wildlife. even hunters.in those areas feeding is only real option ,if both are to be continued.
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Yes, they do survive brutal winters without supplemental feeding, have been forever. Wyoming GF has made the decision to not feed mule deer and pronghorn, they follow science. That's what a proper wildlife agency does...what they don't do, is feed deer to make people feel better. Its not successful and the long, and short-term "benefits" of feeding deer is actually a detriment to deer.
https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/Habitat/Mule Deer Initiative/Keeping Mule Deer Wild/WYMD_FEEDING20120003064.pdf
There is mountains of peer-reviewed science that shows feeding mule deer and pronghorn simply does not work.
This past winter, the Wyoming Sportsmens Alliance sent comments into the GF when deer feeding was being proposed, all 8 member groups made the recommendation to the GF to NOT feed mule deer. We met with the GF director and deputy director and they agreed to follow science rather than emotion. I thanked them for making the correct decision that day, managing the resource based on science, and recognizing that feeding deer and pronghorn is failed policy.
You're free to attempt to allow your knee-jerk emotion to trump science...but I follow and fully support science based wildlife management to continue.
Feeding will NOT save/fix mule deer...and if that's what its going to come down to, mule deer are doomed as a species and we can expect less and less opportunity.
The one, and only option is securing migration corridors, habitat, and improving all ranges that mule deer use...FACT.
I can see why there is confusion in Idaho and the emotional response to actually managing based on science...seems science based wildlife management left the room a long, long time ago there.
Sad.
But it does clarify why you're defending the indefensible.
Mirrors WY and why they don't feed...mainly because it makes sense not to. Too bad the ID FG commission, and advisory committees don't have the first clue...or biology degrees.
https://idfg.idaho.gov/conservation/winter-feeding/challenges
https://idfg.idaho.gov/conservation/winter-feeding/challenges
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and I already told you ,i DON'T CARE ABOUT DEER or goats and am not speaking of them . I am speaking of elk.
but you know this already. you just keep trying to bring them in because even you are aware how full of feces you are.
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Wow, so is this kidoggy character always this rude and nasty?
Maybe people keep mentioning deer and other species because they were talked about in the linked article, but then you'd have to actually read the entire article to know that and it sounds like you're the type that would rather shoot from the hip rather than taking the time to actually read the information that is being discussed - what good are facts when you have your own version of reality.
Maybe people keep mentioning deer and other species because they were talked about in the linked article, but then you'd have to actually read the entire article to know that and it sounds like you're the type that would rather shoot from the hip rather than taking the time to actually read the information that is being discussed - what good are facts when you have your own version of reality.
BOHNTR
Very Active Member
Sorry, but I have researched and experienced the same as BuzzH.........and agree with the science and him. Doesn't work for deer or pronghorn.......and the original article spoke of all three species......not just elk.
kidoggy,
I think you need to slow down and read.
You said, "his comment on the starting feeding in oct was not limited to deer and goats. he included elk in that statement"
That is not true, here is what I said: "As to feeding deer...doesn't work unless you start feeding them in October. The science is there for those willing to do a google search or talk with any biologist."
The reason I didn't include, or exclude elk, is because I was talking specifically about deer.
You busted your leg jumping to your own conclusions about elk...that were never my point of discussion.
I still stand behind the science of feeding deer/pronghorn not being an effective solution to severe weather events and also the science based management of wildlife.
I think you need to slow down and read.
You said, "his comment on the starting feeding in oct was not limited to deer and goats. he included elk in that statement"
That is not true, here is what I said: "As to feeding deer...doesn't work unless you start feeding them in October. The science is there for those willing to do a google search or talk with any biologist."
The reason I didn't include, or exclude elk, is because I was talking specifically about deer.
You busted your leg jumping to your own conclusions about elk...that were never my point of discussion.
I still stand behind the science of feeding deer/pronghorn not being an effective solution to severe weather events and also the science based management of wildlife.
How typical "I only care about the animals I hunt. Also from many previous posts from kidoggy is very anti government everything. So why should the government game agencies feed any animals let alone the the only one he personally cares about? The government should keep their noses out of my affairs,right kidoggy? Science is fake!
Alabama
Veteran member
Both deer and elk are ruminants, both must have the right kind of bacteria to break down the food they eat so they can extract the nutrients. So what's the difference in successful feeding of them?
Not trying to stir things up, I'm seriously asking.
Not trying to stir things up, I'm seriously asking.
Think it comes down to deer are browsers eating bushes and leaves type of diet. While elk are grazers eating grass based diets. Thats way simplified but also is why in so many places the habitat has changed and elk are more prevalent now.
Not sure myself, but elk graze more than deer, so it maybe their gut is more accumulated to supp feeds than deer that browse more. There may be a biological difference rumen wise, not sure. I know there was a more deer friendly feed made, a pellet food, have forgot what was in it, but worked well. A ranch in WA used it for deer, the key is it was available in various amounts year round. Deer did great.
I suspect the key for any supp feed is accumulation time. But if the supp feed leads to an overpopulation situation, as it probably will, at some point a die off will happen, disease or what ever.
what makes you think I don't hunt deer or pronghorn? I just don't care about feeding them because around here they seldom have the winterkill problem like the elk do.
so long as they steal my money claiming to manage the herds ,I don't think it to much to expect they actually MANAGE them. we had a winter that was 150-200 percent of normal.the state fed something in the neighborhood of only 2% of the deer and I believe they "claimed" around 7% of the elk. I don't think this is to much to expect from agency that is supposed to at least attempt to try and maintain the herd.
disolve the agency, stop stealing my money, while providing nothing and I will be more then happy to never ask them for anything again ,ever.
yes. and no one is even trying to argue that.
the truth is, buzz was well aware ,I was never refering to anything but elk he just used the deer and goats to avoid addressing the elk.
I doubt buzz needs his butt buds to jump in, I suspect even he may own at least one pair of big boy pants.