what classifies wilderness area

[lostriverproductions]

Wondering why WY classifies certain areas as wilderness? Specifically the wilderness area in the big horns. No grizzly in that area.

 

[BuzzH]

Congress.

There are federal requirements in to what qualifies as wilderness, that is addressed in RARE I and RARE II (1978). Cliff notes version is that the areas must be over 5k acres in size, have wilderness qualities, and be roadless. There are also areas that are in limbo, Wilderness Study Areas. WSA's still have to meet the basic requirements, but have not been designated or released from wilderness designation.

The last wilderness designations in Wyoming happened in 1984.

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5350226.pdf

 

[lostriverproductions]

Thanks Buzz

 

[maninthemaze]

I always thought it was crazy that hunters from out of state aren't allowed to hunt the area without a guide, but any Tom, Dick or Mary from out of state can go sightseeing and camping in those areas. I always figured hunters would be more prepared for their environment than backcountry campers, but what do I know. I'm just a flatlander from KY?

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[JimP]

They can regulate hunters easier by restricting their tags, than they can regulate tourist on where they want to go.

 

[shootbrownelk]

The Outfitters/Guides wanted your Out of State dollars, so they lobbied the Rancher/Agriculture top heavy Wyoming legislature to pass this stupid law to fleece out of State hunters by requiring them to use a guide. They added a clause later that allowed a Wyoming resident to get a "License" to take 2 NR's into the Wilderness areas. It sucks, but the Outfitters Assn. is a pretty powerful lobby in this State, it won't change anytime soon...if ever.

 

[MtnBuck]

I wonder if the state as a whole actually loses money with this law. Seems un-American to me.

Found this online:

Q. Is it true nonresidents cannot hunt in national forest wilderness areas without a guide?

A. Basically, that's right. Wyoming statute says nonresidents must have a licensed guide or resident companion to hunt big or trophy game in federally designated wilderness areas. The resident companion will need to get a free non-commercial guide license from a Game and Fish office. The law does not prohibit nonresidents from hiking, fishing or hunting game birds, small game, or coyotes in wilderness areas. Only nonresident big and trophy game hunters must have a licensed guide or resident companion.

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/FAQ/General-Hunting-and-Trapping-FAQ

 

[hoshour]

I doubt the State loses money on that law and the outfitters make more. Most nonresidents will just hunt other WY areas.

There is a way around it, if a local will apply to the State to guide you. it's pretty simple. He doesn't need to be a licensed outfitter and I believe you cannot pay him.

As Buzz said, WSAs are not considered wilderness because they have not been formally designated but meet all the requirements. Being roadless, they can be a good choice for a nonresident looking for some elbow room and wilder country.

 

[jmwyoming]

The Outfitters/Guides wanted your Out of State dollars, so they lobbied the Rancher/Agriculture top heavy Wyoming legislature to pass this stupid law to fleece out of State hunters by requiring them to use a guide. They added a clause later that allowed a Wyoming resident to get a "License" to take 2 NR's into the Wilderness areas. It sucks, but the Outfitters Assn. is a pretty powerful lobby in this State, it won't change anytime soon...if ever.

You got it.

 

[ore hunter]

so can a non-resident walk in on public land,weapon in hand or in pack,and technically not be hunting as long as he or she does not have a animal down?you could say you were just looking.what do you think? kind of a grey zone as long as you havnt harvested anything yet?this is a b s law and personally want to push it to the edge if it is legal?

 

[hoshour]

Every state has its own laws regarding hunting, and I would like to hear from a wildlife officer or attorney, but you could say that hunting is the practice of killing or trapping animals, or pursuing or tracking them with the intent of doing so (good ol' Wikipedia).

Intent is not always easy to prove and I am not sure if a poacher will get arrested if he isn't caught trespassing or is not in possession of a dead animal or its mount, though I guess film or pictures or maybe even sufficient testimony might do it.

But, a guy with a weapon in the woods, especially if it is bigger than a pistol, and wearing camo is probably not going to be seen as just a hiker.

 

[BuzzH]

so can a non-resident walk in on public land,weapon in hand or in pack,and technically not be hunting as long as he or she does not have a animal down?you could say you were just looking.what do you think? kind of a grey zone as long as you havnt harvested anything yet?this is a b s law and personally want to push it to the edge if it is legal?

Nothing wrong with having a weapon on public lands in Wyoming.

Pursuing big-game, with a license, weapon, and during an open season in a designated Wilderness area without a guide or resident guide in Wyoming...you're violating statute/regulation.

The courts have routinely ruled in favor of States being able to discriminate against NR's when it comes to their wildlife resources. You have no legal leg to stand on, but I'm sure if you searched the yellow pages long enough, you could find an attorney to take your case...and money.

 

[nv-hunter]

I don't agree with this law only for the fact it requires a non-res to hire a guide. The best way I can see to fight this and get it changed is to get your representatives in congress to have the USDA forest service raise the cost of the guide permit by 10 or 50 times the current rate or to cancel all permits till fair access is granted, if they are charged a extreme amount they won't be able to pass on the costs or afford to operate.

 

[Yell Co AR Hunter]

I don't agree with this law only for the fact it requires a non-res to hire a guide. The best way I can see to fight this and get it changed is to get your representatives in congress to have the USDA forest service raise the cost of the guide permit by 10 or 50 times the current rate or to cancel all permits till fair access is granted, if they are charged a extreme amount they won't be able to pass on the costs or afford to operate.

Oh someone would pay. Lets not push to raise the already to high cost of hunting.

 

[fackelberry]

I live in Wyoming and hate this law myself. If its public land everyone who pays taxes should be able to use it. I expect the same rights if i went out of state and hunted. So why not do it here. On that note, i have made friends with some guys from Kentucky that i met at gun shows. They wanted some help hunting some areas around where i live that were public. I agreed since they were my friends, i took them out showed them around, hell i even hunted with them. But in no way did they pay me. They offered for me to come to Kentucky and hunt deer on their leases which i thought was cool. I never have made it out there to do that. Maybe if some of you non-residents made some Resident friends which i know might be hard to do without meeting them, they could put in for the license to guide you and maybe you could trade some services. I dont think its illegal as long as no money swaps hands, but dont quote me on that. Heck i might be willing to get the license to guide some of you and also get tags in the same area and hunt right with you if the opportunity was right. Like my vacation time, areas you want to hunt and if i drew any tags in other areas. Heck maybe if you just rent an extra horse for me to ride in on, i would bring my own stuff and we all could have a good time hunting new areas. Im not opposed to hunting your states either if it wasnt outragously priced and maybe you could show me around. I just love hunting and see no need to keep public people off public land.

 

[Vikingload]

I've always assumed that the restriction was based on most wildernesses being tough country and their being a lot of rules that non residents sometimes don't know. I will say I am glad that they include regular residents in allowing them to get a licenses vs only a hired guide.


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[maninthemaze]

I've always assumed that the restriction was based on most wildernesses being tough country and their being a lot of rules that non residents sometimes don't know. I will say I am glad that they include regular residents in allowing them to get a licenses vs only a hired guide.


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Tough country or not. Anyone, residents and non-residents alike can go hiking and backpacking in wilderness areas. Hell someone from "New York City" can take their first ever backpack camping trip with no experience necessary. Take the kids along to feed doughnuts to the bears. The guides and guide services have pushed this to lawmakers and won.

It'll never change and I'll never hire a guide anyways, I'm more of a public land hunter. Wyoming wilderness areas aren't what I would consider public hunting ground.

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[Vikingload]

Tough country or not. Anyone, residents and non-residents alike can go hiking and backpacking in wilderness areas. Hell someone from "New York City" can take their first ever backpack camping trip with no experience necessary. Take the kids along to feed doughnuts to the bears. The guides and guide services have pushed this to lawmakers and won.

It'll never change and I'll never hire a guide anyways, I'm more of a public land hunter. Wyoming wilderness areas aren't what I would consider public hunting ground.

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You are right and I can't say for sure why this is the law here in Wyoming. I will say there is a difference between hiking and hunting in my mind. I know I am a lot more logical hiking than when I see a big bull or buck hunting!! At that point the chase is on! Again I am glad they allow residents to take non residents as it is a non-fee service so it doesn't require you to hire a professional guide and spend that money but have a local help you out.


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[ore hunter]

a lot of states have "tough country" look at hells canyon here in Oregon,,,plenty of wilderness in other states with no restrictions,,Wyoming has very clear outfitter welfare program going on here that just isn't right,,,if you pay the price to draw a non-res tag,,,you should have the right to hunt on federal wilderness lands that we"all americans"own.this Wyoming law just torks me to no end.

 

[Bonecollector]

Out of curiosity, how many folks get into trouble hunting in these areas. I've never seen or known it to be a problem (legally).