what classifies wilderness area

[Brianh]

Wow...what an interesting thread of opinions. In my opinion, wilderness areas in WY are not any more rugged than some of the BLM or National Forest I hunt or backpack. Most of the time the Wilderness areas are a little further from the road, but physically not any harder. Lots of space in Wyoming to find public land for the non-resident, but it does make some of the higher country (i.e., goat, sheep and elk country) unavailable for an out of state DIY hunter. I would like to DIY my sheep tag when I get it, but may be forced to hire a guide. We all understand its a money thing, most things in life are. But what bothers me, is that the Wilderness areas are National Forest, and hence are managed and paid for by our Federal tax dollars, right? (please...correct me if I'm wrong). If that's true, I really don't think anyone should be prohibited to hunt their because they are a non-resident. And please correct me if I'm wrong, Wyoming is the only state that requires a guide on Wilderness areas in National Forests, right? I'm totally willing to pay out of state license fees, that's just part of the expense to hunt. But I also think for those fees (in addition to my taxes) I shouldn't be restricted from hunting Wilderness areas in Wyoming....just saying.

 

[JimP]

The bad thing about Wyoming's wilderness hunting law is that it only applies to hunters. If you want to go backpacking, or anything else in the wilderness then by all means you can do it.

It would be interesting if someone or a group of hunters took them to court just what the outcome would be.

And yes, that I personally know of Wyoming is the only state that has this restriction on their wilderness areas.

 

[BuzzH]

It is their responsibility to gain access to these lands not only for the public benefit but to be able to insure public lands are not being used improperly. Bad trades and land swaps has allow this to happen in many areas not too mention the fact that lots of times deeded access is locked for so many years is forgotten that its public access.

Find the law, regulation, Act or statute that says so...I'll not hold my breath, mainly because you wont find one.

I wish there was something that required them to ensure access to landlocked public lands, there simply isn't.

 

[BuzzH]

The bad thing about Wyoming's wilderness hunting law is that it only applies to hunters. If you want to go backpacking, or anything else in the wilderness then by all means you can do it.

It would be interesting if someone or a group of hunters took them to court just what the outcome would be.

And yes, that I personally know of Wyoming is the only state that has this restriction on their wilderness areas.

Correct, typically, hunting regulations only apply to hunters. There are NO restrictions on your use of wilderness areas, only a restriction on hunting big and trophy game in them. Also, a NR can hunt small game, game birds, and predators in a wilderness area without a guide...the law only applies to big game and trophy game. Also, note that wolves in the "predator zone" can be hunted legally by NR's in wilderness areas. The wolves that live in wilderness and are classified as "trophy game", you would need a guide.

Its a jacked up law, wish it wasn't so entrenched here. About on par with AK forcing NR's to hire a guide for goats, sheep, and grizzlies, that's jacked up too.

BTW, its been tried in court and upheld...it doesn't restrict your use of Federal Public Lands, only limits you from hunting the State of Wyoming's big and trophy game in one. Its a hunting regulation, not a land use regulation.

 

[Brianh]

I truly hope...that those of you posting on this link about access to public lands...are letting your legislators know your feelings about what is going on in regards to our National Monuments and selling public lands.

 

[Brianh]

Correct, typically, hunting regulations only apply to hunters. There are NO restrictions on your use of wilderness areas, only a restriction on hunting big and trophy game in them. Also, a NR can hunt small game, game birds, and predators in a wilderness area without a guide...the law only applies to big game and trophy game. Also, note that wolves in the "predator zone" can be hunted legally by NR's in wilderness areas. The wolves that live in wilderness and are classified as "trophy game", you would need a guide.

Its a jacked up law, wish it wasn't so entrenched here. About on par with AK forcing NR's to hire a guide for goats, sheep, and grizzlies, that's jacked up too.

BTW, its been tried in court and upheld...it doesn't restrict your use of Federal Public Lands, only limits you from hunting the State of Wyoming's big and trophy game in one. Its a hunting regulation, not a land use regulation.

Thanks for clarifying...its a hunting regulation and not a land use regulation. That put it totally in perspective.

 

[WY ME]

If that's true, I really don't think anyone should be prohibited to hunt their because they are a non-resident. And please correct me if I'm wrong, Wyoming is the only state that requires a guide on Wilderness areas in National Forests, right? I'm totally willing to pay out of state license fees, that's just part of the expense to hunt. But I also think for those fees (in addition to my taxes) I shouldn't be restricted from hunting Wilderness areas in Wyoming....just saying.

First off let me say I agree that the Wyoming's wilderness law isn't fair to the nonresidents. (You can hunt small game in the wilderness areas.) That said, Alaska is similar to Wyoming in that it also has nonresident guide requirements for sheep, goat and bear hunts on federal lands statewide.

The flip side to this story is that Wyoming bends over backwards to give nonresidents a generous portion of their tags to nonresidents allowing them to hunt all the big game species of our state. Many states are not as generous with their nonresident tags. Some states including some that border WY do not allow any nonresidents to hunt some of their "premier" game. Just saying there's two sides to every story.

 

[Bonecollector]

First off let me say I agree that the Wyoming's wilderness law isn't fair to the nonresidents. (You can hunt small game in the wilderness areas.) That said, Alaska is similar to Wyoming in that it also has nonresident guide requirements for sheep, goat and bear hunts on federal lands statewide.

The flip side to this story is that Wyoming bends over backwards to give nonresidents a generous portion of their tags to nonresidents allowing them to hunt all the big game species of our state. Many states are not as generous with their nonresident tags. Some states including some that border WY do not allow any nonresidents to hunt some of their "premier" game. Just saying there's two sides to every story.

Wyoming can/NEEDS to do this to properly maintain game herds as there are not enough residents living in the one of the least populated states in the union.

 

[Bonecollector]

Dumb question: What if the helicopter never lands? Simply hovers 5ft off the ground while hunters drop gear and jump down?
I'm not looking to cheat the system (the idea has potential for those who can afford a ride) but am seriously curious.

 

[BuzzH]

Dumb question: What if the helicopter never lands? Simply hovers 5ft off the ground while hunters drop gear and jump down?
I'm not looking to cheat the system (the idea has potential for those who can afford a ride) but am seriously curious.

Not legal on FS lands...no reason to do that on BLM and State of Wyoming lands.

Plus, I would imagine the FAA would like to have a little chat with any pilot that allowed that to go on, would assume their insurance company would too.

 

[JimP]

How about a ultimate hunting adventure, parachute into the area that you want to hunt?

It could be a little bit rough getting the meat out unless you also bring a hot air balloon with you.

 

[WY ME]

Wyoming can/NEEDS to do this to properly maintain game herds as there are not enough residents living in the one of the least populated states in the union.

I don't think we need any help controlling our out of control run away game populations but sure appreciate you're concern. Maybe you should move to WY so you can help us out.

 

[mustang8]

The flip side to this story is that Wyoming bends over backwards to give nonresidents a generous portion of their tags to nonresidents allowing them to hunt all the big game species of our state. Many states are not as generous with their nonresident tags. Some states including some that border WY do not allow any nonresidents to hunt some of their "premier" game. Just saying there's two sides to every story.[/QUOTE]

But I bet they like the extra $ generated from all the NR tags as well as the $ that the NR's pour into the towns they stay in. Not disagreeing with you but your right, always 2 sides to the coin.

 

[WY ME]

But I bet they like the extra $ generated from all the NR tags as well as the $ that the NR's pour into the towns they stay in. Not disagreeing with you but your right, always 2 sides to the coin.

The WG&F loves to take you're money on their overpriced nonres. tags and would like to charge you even more if they could but it doesn't help me out in the least. The outfitting industry which primarily caters to the nonresidents has leased up the private land in WY putting a financial burden on the residents that use to hunt these same properties for free or cheap in the past.

Even worse, I just heard that the once great public land area 124 is going to hell because several outfitters are now bringing in a new higher dollar clientele. The little guys can't compete with an army of guides these outfitters can afford to hire. If nonresident tags were abolished and the outfitting industry went belly up, the ranches would once again open up to the public. If my resident deer tag then went to $500 I'd still be money ahead. I'm not advocating for this but the nonresident hunting dollars do not benefit most residents.

As an example, look at Jackson which probably has a million nonresident tourists in town each year, yet it's famous for how expensive the cost of living is there. We drive 90 miles to do our non-grocery shopping in Idaho Falls.

 

[mustang8]

WY ME, I completely agree with you, my first post about this subject brought up the fact that some public land is getting landlocked due to the outfitters leasing all the surrounding properties so essentially they are turning public land in to private for their own $$$. That was my point, it is not a fair deal.

 

[Bonecollector]

I don't think we need any help controlling our out of control run away game populations but sure appreciate you're concern. Maybe you should move to WY so you can help us out.

Still trying to convince my wife!!

 

[fackelberry]

I have been trying to figure out a plan to hunt some BLM land that is REALLY hard to access for 3-4 years now. It has awesome elk hunting on it, i went to highschool with a few of the landowners that surround it and have seen pictures of the bulls they and paid hunters have shot over the years. It has about 5-8 resident bull tags left over after the first draw because of the access issues. If i could find a way into it, it would be a guaranteed tag every year. There is only one way into publicly right now and its over 7 miles of walking or riding a horse one way! We tried to get a better look at it one year in July (bad idea, was to blazing hot out to be walking) and we made it 6 miles. Still looked like another mile or so and we would of been in the good timber where the elk and deer roam. Here is the bad side. All of the water we seen on the way in was wind mills or stock damns, and you guessed it, they were all on private land as verified by GPS. I dont know if there was any further in the BLM that could of been on public, we didnt make it that far. We did walk through some dried up creek crossings on public, but it was a hot and dry year. Don't know on normal years or wet years if those would be full to utilize for horses. I thought of hiring a wrangler or someone to pack us in and drop us off for 7-10 days then come and get us, but we would have to pack our own water from what it looked like. I don't know how feasable that would be. I've tried to look at helicopters to drop us and gear off for the same amount of time. Here is the problems i have encountered so far. Wyoming is pretty sparse and no big cities with abundant helicopter charters as some other states. The ones i found close to where i want to go would be a close to 2 hour flight just for the chopper to get to where i could meet them at airport, then about 45 minute flight to hunting area. So i would have almost 3 hours of flight time at 600 or a shade more per hour one way, double that for his trip home. I'm gonna say 3600 minimum round trip, then he has to come back and get us. So minimum probably5000-6000 to do the chopper thing from what i have found so far.

The other helicopter place i found told me he sometimes sprays weeds for the ranchers with his chopper and he doesn't want to have any conflicts if they knew he was dropping hunters off on public land that they also hunt. And he said he told himself he didn't really want to do that and get involved. So that is what im up against so far. I know it would be a great elk hunt every year if i could find a for SURE way to do this. If it helps, the season with a rifle is Oct. 15- NOV 30. So maybe it would have water later on public or some snow, but definitely cooler than the July death march we went on! Any suggestions or ideas for me?

 

[7mag]

If there is snow you could take a snowmobile in. No restrictions for them other than wilderness areas. They are loud and stink but cant be much worse than a helicopter.

 

[Horsenhike]

I have been trying to figure out a plan to hunt some BLM land that is REALLY hard to access for 3-4 years now. It has awesome elk hunting on it, i went to highschool with a few of the landowners that surround it and have seen pictures of the bulls they and paid hunters have shot over the years. It has about 5-8 resident bull tags left over after the first draw because of the access issues. If i could find a way into it, it would be a guaranteed tag every year. There is only one way into publicly right now and its over 7 miles of walking or riding a horse one way! We tried to get a better look at it one year in July (bad idea, was to blazing hot out to be walking) and we made it 6 miles. Still looked like another mile or so and we would of been in the good timber where the elk and deer roam. Here is the bad side. All of the water we seen on the way in was wind mills or stock damns, and you guessed it, they were all on private land as verified by GPS. I dont know if there was any further in the BLM that could of been on public, we didnt make it that far. We did walk through some dried up creek crossings on public, but it was a hot and dry year. Don't know on normal years or wet years if those would be full to utilize for horses. I thought of hiring a wrangler or someone to pack us in and drop us off for 7-10 days then come and get us, but we would have to pack our own water from what it looked like. I don't know how feasable that would be. I've tried to look at helicopters to drop us and gear off for the same amount of time. Here is the problems i have encountered so far. Wyoming is pretty sparse and no big cities with abundant helicopter charters as some other states. The ones i found close to where i want to go would be a close to 2 hour flight just for the chopper to get to where i could meet them at airport, then about 45 minute flight to hunting area. So i would have almost 3 hours of flight time at 600 or a shade more per hour one way, double that for his trip home. I'm gonna say 3600 minimum round trip, then he has to come back and get us. So minimum probably5000-6000 to do the chopper thing from what i have found so far.

The other helicopter place i found told me he sometimes sprays weeds for the ranchers with his chopper and he doesn't want to have any conflicts if they knew he was dropping hunters off on public land that they also hunt. And he said he told himself he didn't really want to do that and get involved. So that is what im up against so far. I know it would be a great elk hunt every year if i could find a for SURE way to do this. If it helps, the season with a rifle is Oct. 15- NOV 30. So maybe it would have water later on public or some snow, but definitely cooler than the July death march we went on! Any suggestions or ideas for me?

Horses. And someone to take care of them. The water issue is a tough one.

They could make a trip in with supplies and back out the same day. Water at the truck. Same with hauling elk out. Lot of work though. Sounds like an adventure.

 

[fackelberry]

The one way trip is probably gonna be 7 miles to where a person would camp, so 14 miles roundtrip just to camp and back out to trucks. Once a person got into it there is at least 12 square miles of huntable BLM and State ground. I'm thinking a person would have to find a water source in there. It does show a pretty good creek on the map all on public but don't know if it runs year around. I was thinking about hiring a small plane and flying over the area with my GPS and seeing what is all around and what it looks like from the air. That would tell me alot about the place i think. I would really like to find a way into it that wouldn't be too hard or more effort than what its worth. If it was good hunting a person could hunt it every year and probably get a damn good bull. I have personally seen a 402, 360,350 and a couple 330 bulls come out of there. Not all on the same year and they were all spread out aways up and down the ridge and came off 3 different landowners but its all the same country that runs for miles. One of the landowners is a brother in-law to my friend, he was the one who shot the 350 bull. He said its stupid how many 300-320 bulls are running up there. His brother in-law made him pass up a bunch of 320 bulls he said before he shot the 350. I would like to try it one time just to see and know if it's all that good. So i will keep studying and looking into access.