There are many other trends that I notice as cars as drawings go. The quality tags are being pulled from the drawings and taken into the auctions every night. They hide behind a couple decent tags to make the layperson think that we are getting equal opportunity to draw a great tag. It's obvious why. Antelope island for example. 400,000$. Why a would they put it in the 5$ draw? I'm ok with that if it all goes to Fish and Wildlife! $1.50 for every 5$ is a joke. I was against the 200 tag thing when they were discussing it in Regional Advisory Council Meetings and the reasons keep materializing. Everyone was so blind and still is because they can have a lottery chance. I'm guilty of trying to draw with 5$ just because hunting is my passion and prefer it to anything. We need to put this information in all the papers in Utah. I would hope some of the local hunting Magazines would help but they are into it deep financially and may loose thousands without the expos. What other ways can we get this out to the public?
Western hunting and conservation expo, contract renewal issue
- Thread starter oneye
- Start date
Zim
Very Active Member
Here ya go. This will get ya started. After observing this crew 10 years, I can't believe they still get away with this. The Utah residents just grab their ankles and put up with it. Unbelievable.
It's a sad testament when so many hunters are well aware what SFW is doing, but choose to put their ethics to the side while they run to that Expo to buy $5 chances, rather than contacting their legislators and media to complain. They don't care they are only promoting the clowns.
http://www.themudflats.net/2011/11/16/a-disaster-for-alaskas-department-of-fish-and-game/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arizona-Sportsmen-Against-Hb-2072/274702462612489
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/us/auctions-introduce-market-forces-to-conservation-but-hunters-cry-foul.html?smid=pl-share&_r=1&
http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/columnists/group-seeking-privatized-wildlife-spreading-misinformation/article_dfb5fe10-8570-11e1-99d1-0019bb2963f4.html
http://www.mtbullypulpit.org/2012/06/pox-on-fox.html
http://www.hcn.org/blogs/range/sportsmen-stab-theodore-roosevelt-in-the-back
http://www.standard.net/Recreation/2016/02/10/Transparency-still-debated-around-2016-Western-Hunting-and-Conservation-Expo.html
https://howlingforjustice.wordpress.com/2013/03/03/urgent-sfw-founder-requests-taxpayer-money-to-lobby-for-wolf-delisting/
If you are considering starting applying in Utah from the ground floor, you need to look hard and long. Leading the west in auction tags, all pulled from the regular draw, has a cost. Draw odds for regular Joe's suck. And it ain't gonna get any better as the years pass by. SFW will only want more pie. Crunch the numbers and compare to other good states. Extremely poor return-on-investment to get in that game with no points.
It's a sad testament when so many hunters are well aware what SFW is doing, but choose to put their ethics to the side while they run to that Expo to buy $5 chances, rather than contacting their legislators and media to complain. They don't care they are only promoting the clowns.
http://www.themudflats.net/2011/11/16/a-disaster-for-alaskas-department-of-fish-and-game/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Arizona-Sportsmen-Against-Hb-2072/274702462612489
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/02/us/auctions-introduce-market-forces-to-conservation-but-hunters-cry-foul.html?smid=pl-share&_r=1&
http://missoulian.com/news/opinion/columnists/group-seeking-privatized-wildlife-spreading-misinformation/article_dfb5fe10-8570-11e1-99d1-0019bb2963f4.html
http://www.mtbullypulpit.org/2012/06/pox-on-fox.html
http://www.hcn.org/blogs/range/sportsmen-stab-theodore-roosevelt-in-the-back
http://www.standard.net/Recreation/2016/02/10/Transparency-still-debated-around-2016-Western-Hunting-and-Conservation-Expo.html
https://howlingforjustice.wordpress.com/2013/03/03/urgent-sfw-founder-requests-taxpayer-money-to-lobby-for-wolf-delisting/
If you are considering starting applying in Utah from the ground floor, you need to look hard and long. Leading the west in auction tags, all pulled from the regular draw, has a cost. Draw odds for regular Joe's suck. And it ain't gonna get any better as the years pass by. SFW will only want more pie. Crunch the numbers and compare to other good states. Extremely poor return-on-investment to get in that game with no points.
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Zim
Very Active Member
They have been 2nd worst in the west as far as that goes. I don't believe in ANY auction tags. Every one is a spit in the face to Teddy Roosevelt.
I'm going to put together some stuff for the papers and legislates. Thanks for the info. I can only try to help my kids get an equal chance at hunting as the rich man. Not to mention money to go where it should. Not in lobbyist pockets and administrative fees!!
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ZIM
TR is my favorite president and I think he would proud of what the Governor's tags are doing for Wyoming's wildlife. It seems your mind is made up on this subject and I don't expect to change it but here's some food for thought for you and others to consider when it comes to the Wyoming's Gov's Tags.
The sale of just one bull moose tag last year went for $38,000. That is equal to 339 resident moose tags (WY only sold 205 bull tags in 2015) or 27 nonresident tags (WY sold 65 bull tags in 2015). WY sells 5 tags each year and the proceeds from the 5 tags go as follows;
10% to nongame wildlife
10% to Wyoming Wildlife - The Foundation
10% to the seller and 70% to moose research, habitat improvement, etc....
This is money that the moose researchers would never see without the sale of these tags. Nonresidents complain (and rightfully so) that they are being gouged by the western states on license prices but these 5 tags raise far more $ for moose research than could otherwise be realized through the normal draw process.
To put it in perspective, I don't think that most guys wanting to hunt a WY moose are willing to pay double what they already pay for a tag in order to get a total of 5 more moose in the draw (1 in the nonres draw). For nonresidents like yourself there would theoretically be an increase of 1 moose in the draw for 1 area, the other 20 moose areas would see no increase and the draw odds would not change at all.
That is how valuable these 5 tags are for supporting the future moose projects.
2003-2014 Project Funding
Bighorn Sheep: 121 projects Funded at $1,715,133
Moose: 88 projects Funded at $701,400
Elk: 125 projects Funded at $636,427
Deer: 121 projects
Funded at $566,556
Other Wildlife: 121 projects Funded at $621,227
Cumulative: 576 projects Funded at $4,240,743
WGBLC
Zim
Very Active Member
There's plenty of folks that rationalize putting public property on the auction block, especially those benefitting financially like outfitters. But if you are a fan of TR you should know by now exactly his philosophy on the matter. And none of it includes the auction block. He made this quite clear. Do I need to post quotations? I don't have time but you can find plenty by Googling yourself.
Ouch!
TR sold federal lands in order to pay for irrigating the west.
Every time each and every one of us buys a hunting license we are in essence buying public property on the auction block. All of the oil, gas, minerals and timber we use in our daily lives that came from federal lands were sold on the auction block.
TR was concerned about the dwindling wildlife in the west and pushed hard to turn that trend around. Selling Gov's tags and spending 80% of the proceeds to the direct benefit of the wildlife is a good thing and I do feel TR would agree.
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Zim
Very Active Member
The history back in that era was long and complex. Millions of acres were sold and given away before it all settled down. But nowhere did I ever see TR speak of auctioning hunting tags.......not even once. His philosophy was even the most common man should have equal access. If you have information that TR authorized or condoned the auction of a big game tag, please post it. If not, feel free to knock yourself out putting words in his mouth to make yourself feel good. There's no shortage of outfitters that will join you.
The Ben Long article above sums it up best. Auction tags in their true definition are nothing more than wildlife prostitution.
The Ben Long article above sums it up best. Auction tags in their true definition are nothing more than wildlife prostitution.
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Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
None of us know what TR would say or feel about all the premium tags being skimmed off the top today. When he was alive and hunted there were no bag limits and no seasons....and hardly any roads & hunters in the west. The thing I hate about all these auction & governors tags is that the buyer can literally hunt almost anywhere and anytime in the state they bought the tag in. Over the years there have been allegations of outfitters literally penning up and/or herding a record book animal so that it is basically kept in jail off public land, away from others hunters. I guess having a few (and I mean damn few!) tags set aside for the gentry hunters with deep pockets is ok, but surely not in the numbers that are reserved and set aside now!
Rant over.............
Zim
Very Active Member
I can assure you, AZSFW took my comments seriously when it came to their HB2072, biggest attempted auction tag heist in US history in 2012. I personally slammed the door on them and their $300,000/year lobbyist in the AZ state house by getting the TV interviews that shut them down and sent them packin literally overnight.
You are welcome to your opinion, but the hunters of Arizona have spoken, and they agree with me. Incidently, at that time I got many emails of thanks even from outfitters, who stood to gain financially from that legislation, but were still on my side.
Not wishing to debate this further. I've found my time is better invested dealing with legislators and media rather than internet trolls.
You are welcome to your opinion, but the hunters of Arizona have spoken, and they agree with me. Incidently, at that time I got many emails of thanks even from outfitters, who stood to gain financially from that legislation, but were still on my side.
Not wishing to debate this further. I've found my time is better invested dealing with legislators and media rather than internet trolls.
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Zim
Very Active Member
laxwyo
Very Active Member
Governor tags don't have anything on landowner tags. In units with 90% public land and 40 tags, landowners can easily take 25 of them. Why would a land owner deserve a bull tag every year?? I Think they definitely deserve a tag but they can hunt cows for 4 years or more and then get the premium one. Drives me nuts that two brothers over by baggs take their landowner tag and come over to the rock springs side and kill huge bulls EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Why??
Oregon does some things wrong and some right I think. To wit, landowner tags are issued and only good on your land, good me thinks. They do a few fat cat auction tags, and about the same number of raffle tags, raffle run by ODFW, danged few of each, good me thinks. Raffle $ fund access and habitat for all hunters.
Now they have added premium draw tags, through out the state, one per unit for deer, elk and antelope where present. Not sure about these, but probably good for revenue for ODFW, so neutral on this one for now. Have not counted them up, but we have a bunch of these type of tags, 150-175 premium tags in total I'd guess.
The commonality is all are sold/controlled by ODFW, nearly all are accessible to the common man, but the few auction tags are done through several actual conservation organizations, not just one organization. The money helps a bunch, so long as the money is used to support hunting, and the vast majority of tags are available to all, not too bad me thinks.
In my mind, so long as the vast majority of the $ goes back into the resource, it can be a very good way to get opportunity for all.
Now they have added premium draw tags, through out the state, one per unit for deer, elk and antelope where present. Not sure about these, but probably good for revenue for ODFW, so neutral on this one for now. Have not counted them up, but we have a bunch of these type of tags, 150-175 premium tags in total I'd guess.
The commonality is all are sold/controlled by ODFW, nearly all are accessible to the common man, but the few auction tags are done through several actual conservation organizations, not just one organization. The money helps a bunch, so long as the money is used to support hunting, and the vast majority of tags are available to all, not too bad me thinks.
In my mind, so long as the vast majority of the $ goes back into the resource, it can be a very good way to get opportunity for all.