Transfer of Public Lands
- Thread starter npaden
- Start date
Was thinking along similar lines myself. Gets cold at the base of the Steens this time of the year, give em a warning, cut off power and wait...
sneakypete
Veteran member
being how the brandy's got involved, cool heads prevailing are a far cry away. i am all about fighting for what's right, the principal behind fighting for what's right. but when you are in the wrong, (if) then it just becomes a sad, landowners self justifiable rights, issue. ill be following this closely just out of interest in the matter. seems that these boys make their own old western laws and assume that everything on and off of their land is in under their order. we no longer live under the old west, boys like this need run out.
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shootbrownelk
Veteran member
That sign applies to us Go Deep....John Q. Public. We have to stay out. No such restrictions on ranchers with leases. They can also drive in where the public cannot. Totally unfair. But that's what you get with a rancher top-heavy legislature here in Wyoming.
shootbrownelk
Veteran member
There are also bills pending that outlaw photography on public lands. Bills drafted and pushed by Oil/Gas and Agriculture and bought and paid for Wyoming legislators. Violates the First amendment IMO.
shootbrownelk
Veteran member
Cliven Bundy and his kids are public land moochers that owe the taxpayers (BLM) over a million dollars in Grazing fees. They aren't the patriots they claim to be, they're just freeloaders.
highplainsdrifter
Very Active Member
It will be interesting to see how the media handles this. In the original Bundy standoff, Fox News treated Bundy like a hero until he made disparaging racial remarks. Then they dropped him like a hot potato. Until then, he was a hero standing up to the federal government.
This time around, I am hoping the media sees it for what it is: a group of radicals trying to take over OUR federal land for their own profit.
This time around, I am hoping the media sees it for what it is: a group of radicals trying to take over OUR federal land for their own profit.
Colorado Cowboy
Super Moderator
I've seen various news reports that the Hammonds are not involved and not on site. They plan on surrendering this AM according to news reports. The people at the Federal Wildlife Refuge are most outsiders according to all the reports I've seen. The same bunch that stirred up all the problems in Nevada. I hope this does not gain any more traction that it has now. What a bunch of______
Just sayin...............
Just sayin...............
In God We Trust
Very Active Member
The media will use this to paint all conservatives as radicals. Lets see if they glorify this groups as much as the black lives matters idiots.
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the Hammond's, from what it sounds like are doing as they should, the bundies are turning it into something they should not. kinda reminds me of rex rammel if you guys remember him , elk rancher from Idaho, but this is at a much larger scale. as far as Hammonds go, it is a little bizarre that after they served the sentence handed to them that a new judge stepped in long after the ordeal took place and long after time was served to had them another sentence saying previous one wasn't long enough. I'm not sure how that's even legal. fed gov deff pushes and shoves when it needs or wants something though but this has turned into a circus. I'm 110% pro rancher/slash landowner and am thankful for them. however, some of them seem to think they are a special breed exempt from actual law.
highplainsdrifter
Very Active Member
I agree that it seems unusual that someone is ordered back to prison after they have been released. But I don't know the law, and I don't have strong feelings one way or the other as to what is the proper punishment.
But to the Bundys, this is not about the unfairness of the prison sentence. Bundy and his clan are capitalizing on the emotion of that situation to promote their agenda.
Here are some additional facts followed by my opinion:
The people occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge are demanding that the entire 186,000 acre refuge be turned over to local control. Here is a link to information about the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge:
http://www.fws.gov/uploadedFiles/Region_1/NWRS/Zone_2/Malheur/Documents/malheur_brochure.pdf
Malheur Refuge, like all national wildlife refuges, is partially funded through the Federal Duck Stamp Program. Most hunters are familiar with the duck stamp program. Here is a link to more information about it:
http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/pdf/get-involved/DSOfactsheet2015.pdf
It would be extremely unfortunate if a sportsmen funded refuge were to be turned over to local control. Local management dominated by ranching interests would certainly not emphasize wildlife and recreation. While it is unlikely that this group of radicals will prevail, sportsmen need to keep a close watch on this situation.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out and what impact it will have on the entire transfer movement. Hopefully, the public will began to see transfer proponents as extremists along with the politicians that support their movement. I think they picked a poor location to make their stand. The public is likely to be more sympathetic toward a wildlife refuge than they were toward a barren chunk of BLM land in Nevada.
But to the Bundys, this is not about the unfairness of the prison sentence. Bundy and his clan are capitalizing on the emotion of that situation to promote their agenda.
Here are some additional facts followed by my opinion:
The people occupying the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge are demanding that the entire 186,000 acre refuge be turned over to local control. Here is a link to information about the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge:
http://www.fws.gov/uploadedFiles/Region_1/NWRS/Zone_2/Malheur/Documents/malheur_brochure.pdf
Malheur Refuge, like all national wildlife refuges, is partially funded through the Federal Duck Stamp Program. Most hunters are familiar with the duck stamp program. Here is a link to more information about it:
http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/pdf/get-involved/DSOfactsheet2015.pdf
It would be extremely unfortunate if a sportsmen funded refuge were to be turned over to local control. Local management dominated by ranching interests would certainly not emphasize wildlife and recreation. While it is unlikely that this group of radicals will prevail, sportsmen need to keep a close watch on this situation.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out and what impact it will have on the entire transfer movement. Hopefully, the public will began to see transfer proponents as extremists along with the politicians that support their movement. I think they picked a poor location to make their stand. The public is likely to be more sympathetic toward a wildlife refuge than they were toward a barren chunk of BLM land in Nevada.
The govt. getting a do over and returning them to jail to serve more time seems grossly unfair and unAmerican to me. Here is a constructive outlet for those that feel the same. Site contains a link to sign a petition.
http://www.oregonfb.org/2015/10/07/statement-oregon-farm-bureau-president-barry-bushue-sentencing-steve-dwight-hammond-years-federal-prison/
Seems it would be best for all if the Bundy's and all the militia wannabe's went home. I believe that is the position of the OR ranchers too.
A very sad fact about the Malheur Wildlife refuge is it's greatly reduced caring capacity for waterfowl. Waterfowl is its main purpose as far as I know. They have an invasive species, some fish that eats the aquatic vegetation. Watched a PBS special about it. Most waterfowl forage is long gone. The staff ought to work on that and not worry so much about grazing me thinks. It is basically a very flat spot, wet years the water covers a bunch, dry years not so much. I Antelope hunted near the north border of the refuge about 10 years ago, every muddy creek had thousands of 3-6 lb. fish you could about walk across the creek on, makes sense now.
http://www.oregonfb.org/2015/10/07/statement-oregon-farm-bureau-president-barry-bushue-sentencing-steve-dwight-hammond-years-federal-prison/
Seems it would be best for all if the Bundy's and all the militia wannabe's went home. I believe that is the position of the OR ranchers too.
A very sad fact about the Malheur Wildlife refuge is it's greatly reduced caring capacity for waterfowl. Waterfowl is its main purpose as far as I know. They have an invasive species, some fish that eats the aquatic vegetation. Watched a PBS special about it. Most waterfowl forage is long gone. The staff ought to work on that and not worry so much about grazing me thinks. It is basically a very flat spot, wet years the water covers a bunch, dry years not so much. I Antelope hunted near the north border of the refuge about 10 years ago, every muddy creek had thousands of 3-6 lb. fish you could about walk across the creek on, makes sense now.
highplainsdrifter
Very Active Member
Seems to me that if some people feel the prison sentence is unfair (and it may be), then they should try to change the law and/or the judicial system. They should not try to destroy the entire refuge system which is what would happen if the feds caved to their demands at Malheur. Nor should they join a federal land transfer movement that has little to do with the terms of the prison sentence.
Sorry to hear Malheur is not as glorious as I had imagined, but it needs to be protected out of principle.
Sorry to hear Malheur is not as glorious as I had imagined, but it needs to be protected out of principle.
Agreed HPD. Two separate issues are in play. The refuge occupation was not the brain child of the OR ranchers, they do not show any support for it I can find. The NV Bundy's seems to want to use this OR issue to further their land grab mentality. Most in OR I know of want them to go back to NV.
The govt. coming back into court and saying you have to go back to jail, to the OR ranchers, after they served the first sentence, is where most see something fishy and likely unfair. Don't know of many who support their breaking the rules with the burns etc. So the initial jail time seemed fair, added time not so much. But the 9th circuit upheld the added time. Does not sound like the America I thought I lived in. Apparently I lack an understanding of the law and how the Feds can apply it, very high handed at best, to me anyway.
The govt. coming back into court and saying you have to go back to jail, to the OR ranchers, after they served the first sentence, is where most see something fishy and likely unfair. Don't know of many who support their breaking the rules with the burns etc. So the initial jail time seemed fair, added time not so much. But the 9th circuit upheld the added time. Does not sound like the America I thought I lived in. Apparently I lack an understanding of the law and how the Feds can apply it, very high handed at best, to me anyway.
For those interested in how Federal Mgmt. of lands can be abused, listen to this Rep. Walden, takes a while, but he tells a chilling story about BLM overreach in the Steens area of OR., and another case of Forest Service ignoring users in OR. Both fortunately worked out, but could have easily had serious advese consequences. It is Federal actions like this that fan the fires. He talks about the OR situation too, as well as a potential reclassification of millions of acres in OR by Feds that would likely impact hunters and other users.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bx4ocLdWE90
Not sure what the solution is, but more local control, while remaining under Federal ownership, with strict limits on Federal agencies ability to add rules seems a reasonable direction to head. It should not be a free for all to miners or ranchers to use and abuse nor a free for all for the latest Federal employee to come in and mold uses to suit their world view. Has to be some middle ground, I'd like to think anyway.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bx4ocLdWE90
Not sure what the solution is, but more local control, while remaining under Federal ownership, with strict limits on Federal agencies ability to add rules seems a reasonable direction to head. It should not be a free for all to miners or ranchers to use and abuse nor a free for all for the latest Federal employee to come in and mold uses to suit their world view. Has to be some middle ground, I'd like to think anyway.
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Here is info on a Federal reclassification of land in Malheur County, next door to the current OR dust up, which would drastically impact over 40% of the county, 2.5 Million acres. It covers some of my favorite hunting grounds. It is mentioned in my U-tube post above. Keep in mind a Federal Monument may or may not allow hunting...up to the Fed's, scary to me. Any wonder ranchers are a bit stirred up?
http://www.capitalpress.com/Oregon/20151030/hundreds-pack-gym-to-oppose-malheur-county-monument-proposal
http://www.capitalpress.com/Oregon/20151030/hundreds-pack-gym-to-oppose-malheur-county-monument-proposal