Transfer of Public Lands

[In God We Trust]

I just e-mailed Gardner and Bennet and thanked them for voting No on 838. A few serious Republicans that will be running for president are on the list of yes votes. I contacted them as well and told them that they can count on loosing sportsman votes in the primaries because of the crap they are pulling. Paul Ryan cracks me up. He is always putting on a hunter persona and then stabs every sportsman in America in the back every chance that he gets. What a hypocrite.

 

[highplainsdrifter]

ceby7

I really like the statement at the bottom of your posts: I recognized long ago that if I have a warehouse full of guns, but no public land or public wildlife, I have nothing!

I couldn't agree more. I wonder why more hunters are not taking this land transfer issue as serious as they would a strict gun control proposal?? If I had to decide whether to give up my guns or my public land, it would be a tough choice.

 

[Bitterroot Bulls]

I wonder why more hunters are not taking this land transfer issue as serious as they would a strict gun control proposal??

This is a great question. Both issues are equally important to me.

If I had to decide whether to give up my guns or my public land, it would be a tough choice.

The ALC would like you to think that you have to choose one or the other. The reality is, of course, that you don't. You have both now, and there is no logical reason for it to change.

 

[micropterus79]

I just e-mailed Gardner and Bennet and thanked them for voting No on 838. A few serious Republicans that will be running for president are on the list of yes votes. I contacted them as well and told them that they can count on loosing sportsman votes in the primaries because of the crap they are pulling. Paul Ryan cracks me up. He is always putting on a hunter persona and then stabs every sportsman in America in the back every chance that he gets. What a hypocrite.

Yep. We have to realize 90% of these guys/girls, whether or not they have an R or D in front of their name, go to the same ivy league schools, go to the same cocktail parties, and more or less all think alike. Very few think like "normal" everyday Americans in what we VALUE. Even if they were at one time "normal," they are so far removed from day to day life they really don't care because now they have to pander and "earn" votes. Paul Ryan will always have cool places to hunt, so will all the Bush's, Clintons, and Obamas, etc, etc... Politicians are concerned with issues, not principles. Sad.

 

[highplainsdrifter]

Recently I wrote to my two senators telling them I disagree with their vote on budget amendment #838 (transfer or sale of federal lands). Today I received the following response from Senator Barrasso:

Dear xxxx,

Thank you for contacting me about the federal budget. It is good to hear from you.

I appreciate hearing your comments about budget resolution amendment #838 proposed by Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) that would establish a reserve fund to transfer, sell, or exchange federal lands with state or local governments. This measure is non-binding and does not result in any land being transferred, sold, or exchanged. Amendment #838 is a budgetary measure to be used should additional legislation be introduced. The actual transfer, sale, or exchange of any federal land with state or local governments would require site-specific legislation to be introduced and passed by Congress and signed into law. This legislation would also need to be supported by the state or local government with whom the transfer, sale, or exchange is taking place to ensure it meets the desired land management policy objectives of the local community.

Wyoming has a proven track record when it comes to responsible land management. This amendment simply makes it easier for land exchanges, sales, and transfers to take place between federal, state ,and local governments. It does not allow the sale or transfer of land located within our national parks, national preserves, or national monuments. That said, amendment #838 passed by a vote of 51 to 49.

On March 27, 2015, the Senate passed S.Con.Res.11, the Budget Resolution, by a 52-46 vote. I voted in favor of this budget. The resolution establishes the congressional budget for the federal government for Fiscal Year 2016 (FY16) and sets forth budgetary levels for the next ten years. While this budget is not perfect, it fully balances the federal budget through responsible spending cuts without raising taxes on hardworking Americans. The final text of the resolution in available at:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/senate-concurrent-resolution/11/all-info

Many difficult decisions need to be made in order to get our country back on sound fiscal footing. It is important for me to hear from the people of Wyoming about their spending priorities so that I can make an informed decision. The American people deserve an honest, responsible budget and I believe this plan is a step in the right direction. Please know I appreciate you sharing your thoughts with me and will keep them in mind as I continue my work in the Senate.

Thank you again for taking the time to share your thoughts with me. I value your input.

John Barrasso, M.D.
United States Senator

I guess we are supposed to take comfort in the fact that the amendment does not include National Parks, National Preserves and National Monuments. But what about the 25 million acres of BLM and Forest Service land in the state??? Clearly he leaves the door open to the potential transfer or sale of these lands.

Needless to say, I am not happy with his response.

 

[micropterus79]

This looks like a patented response to me. "Nothing to see here, we're all very smart people that have your values and best interest in mind and although the decisions are hard, you can trust us to make the right one "

Also, does Wyoming have a proven track record when it comes to land management?? What do you Wyo residents think about this statement? Pinedale??

 

[highplainsdrifter]

This looks like a patented response to me. "Nothing to see here, we're all very smart people that have your values and best interest in mind and although the decisions are hard, you can trust us to make the right one "

Also, does Wyoming have a proven track record when it comes to land management?? What do you Wyo residents think about this statement? Pinedale??

As far as the proven track record: it is my opinion that the track record favors for-profit activities while paying only lip service to recreation. If the state were to take control of federal lands, I am convinced we could look forward to more of the same.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Our County Commissioners (2 of the 3) voted to join the American Lands Council by paying $1,000.00 dues. The Council "is an advocate for states having the right, if they so choose, to have federal lands transferred over to state jurisdiction" to quote one of the Commissioners. One of the Commissioners was absent from the meeting. He is a friend of mine and tomorrow I am having lunch with him to find out his views. He will get an earful from me. The thing that really ticks me off me is that this subject was not on the Commissioners agenda so the public could have advance notice and get people there who oppose this crappola!

I also wrote to my Representative to Congress and expressed my view and got a staff written response that didn't even address my concerns.

Looks like the real push on state control is coming from Utah. Our County is very anti government and hates the Forest Service & BLM. I hope I can get my point across and find out my friends views on this subject. This whole thing is madness from my point of view.

 

[micropterus79]

I don't see the actual post in this thread but it did appear on the welcome screen. Someone asked me what I was referring to when I mentioned Pinedale at the end of my last post.

All I was referring to is the fact that everyone (hunters, ranchers, enviros, etc...) at one time agreed that energy extraction was going haywire up there and really screwing things up. I was really asking if more federal land were to be purchased by the state (Wyo), do y'all think the whole stat will end up like Pinedale, worse, better?

I'm not making an argument one way or another and what happened in Pinedale might very well be totally unrelated to how the state would run things. In my mind, it is just at the forefront of an example of poor land management.

 

[Bitterroot Bulls]

Our County Commissioners (2 of the 3) voted to join the American Lands Council by paying $1,000.00 dues.

Your local government is using taxpayer dollars to fund the ALC!!!!!!

That is bats/-/1T crazy.

 

[Againstthewind]

I don't see the actual post in this thread but it did appear on the welcome screen. Someone asked me what I was referring to when I mentioned Pinedale at the end of my last post.

All I was referring to is the fact that everyone (hunters, ranchers, enviros, etc...) at one time agreed that energy extraction was going haywire up there and really screwing things up. I was really asking if more federal land were to be purchased by the state (Wyo), do y'all think the whole stat will end up like Pinedale, worse, better?

I'm not making an argument one way or another and what happened in Pinedale might very well be totally unrelated to how the state would run things. In my mind, it is just at the forefront of an example of or land management.

I was curious what you meant about Pinedale. http://www.wyohistory.org/essays/jonah-field-and-pinedale-anticline-natural-gas-success-story. Most of the land (this article says 80%) in the Pinedale Anticline production area is federal (BLM)..

As for Wyoming's track record, I think that they do a good job with the state parks. For $35 a year I can go anywhere in the state and some cool reservoirs mostly. Also the school sections have been managed so that Wyoming schools are not in the same funding crunch as other state's schools. HPD is right, that is mostly because they lean towards for profit activity. If the Pinedale area was mostly state managed, there might not be the federal oversight that has tried to correct some of the issues for wildlife and air quality. Private land blocks a lot of the migration route also, just to throw in another complication. Some of the school sections provide a good access and can be kindof a gateway to access more BLM land that is private-locked otherwise.

I also agree with CC, it seems to be kindof sneaky. When the elections were going on last fall, the people that even talked about it were called crazy and weren't elected. Now its almost done it seems like. It does seem like the way they want to manage some of the forest areas is to sell them, which I don't agree with. Some of the BLM that can't be accessed anyway, or is already leased to big mines, might be a short term solution, but after they are reclaimed, it is some good habitat and grazing if only for the great grandkids and not me.

 

[Colorado Cowboy]

Your local government is using taxpayer dollars to fund the ALC!!!!!!

That is bats/-/1T crazy.

Yep.....

With no advance notice that it would even be on their agenda!

 

[highplainsdrifter]

Yesterday, there was a story in the Denver Post blasting the recent U.S. Senate vote to transfer or sell federal lands. What caught my eye is a statement about possible legislation being introduced in the fall. We have been fighting this battle at the state level for the last several months. It seems to me the battle is now shifting to the national level.

http://www.denverpost.com/willoughby/ci_27868601/willoughby-senate-support-public-lands-transfer-is-misguided

 

[Bitterroot Bulls]

Senator Steve Daines of MT has taken some serious heat for his turn on public lands. Besides the ads Backcountry Hunters are putting in papers across MT chastising his vote, he is losing big time supporters like the Gazette Editorial staff:

http://billingsgazette.com/news/opinion/editorial/gazette-opinion/gazette-opinion-daines-flip-flopped-on-federal-lands-transfer/article_29f33d03-8faf-5c36-8fe8-8f48909c78d1.html

I hope he comes back around on this. If he doesn't, I really think his time in the Senate for Montana will be short.

 

[micropterus79]

Thank Against. That all makes sense. I apologize that last post wasn't very clear. This is a great thread and I am learning alot although I'm scared for the West.

The more I ponder this more I think it needs to be judged on an objective, case by case basis. Very difficult to say. What concerns me most is recreational opportunity expectations. If I understand this all correctly (going back to some of the very first posts), this is not a matter of not having ANYWHERE to hunt, fish, camp, etc...(at least in foreseeable future, but possibly in the future unless you're wealthy) it is more a matter of keeping the west open. I have lived in Kentucky and Texas and while I found some really cool places and met some outstanding people, it was NOTHING like being back home in Colorado when it comes to being in the outdoors. Much of that I attribute to a lack of federal land. Hell, even in Colorado the state land doesn't necessarily satisfy that itch. Sure, state parks and wildlife areas are great for taking the family and providing access and opportunities to folks that might not be physically able to hike around for miles but it still isn't a vast area of BLM or Forest Service where you can really DIY. Is this really whats at stake?

I think we also have to understand, related to this, things that work east of the rockies might not work west of the rockies. There tends to be (but not always), at least in my experience, substantial differences in outdoor recreation expectations from people that are from states that already have a lot of public land versus states that don't.

 

[Againstthewind]

Yep, those are some good points Micro, Managing a state park is a lot different than managing millions of acres of National Forest, and BLM is probably even more complicated. Its kindof like a local grocery store owner deciding that he should take over Safeway, maybe not a good analogy but oh well. Pinedale is a good example you made, I think, especially when you compare it to Gillette. Pinedale is 80% federal, Gillette, maybe that much private or at leased or something like that. Pinedale you can kindof see the how the shift in federal policy affects the locals with the energy extraction pendulum swinging one way and then the other, partly making the boom bust pretty dramatic at times, while Gillette's economy rides out even the slow years pretty well I think. Then you look at the opportunities for outdoors sports, and Gillette isn't even in the same league as Pinedale even with all there is pretty close by. Anyway, I think you made a really good example. Pinedale is kind of the way the feds do it, Gillette more private and state control, but there is still a lot of federal influence on the BLM and stuff. Pinedale has a lot of natural opportunity that makes it difficult to compare though I guess.

 

[micropterus79]

^^^I like comparisons, very nice. It at least sets up some benchmarks upon which we can hang discussions and make predictions.

I suppose that is why politics really have to take a back seat on this one but it isn't that easy, is it? You might want to vote for person X because you agree with their stance on this issue but disagree on every other policy they want to advance. Then you have the flip-side.

On top of that, you have what CC describes. Sneaky bastards.

IDK guys. I am expecting our first child here in 2-3 weeks and I am not so much afraid for her, but my grandkids for sure.

But looking at this from a historical context, how many old timers have said "man, this country really has changed."

I guess its kind of like what Gus said in Lonesome Dove when reflecting on he and Call's handiwork at being Texas Rangers "We got rid of all the people that made this country interestin' in the first place." The unintended consequence being a "taming" of the west because if you lived out on the Texas prairie in 1870's, there were dangers most of can't truly appreciate in this modern age and progress was being impeded. I could be wrong, but I would bet money that if the Charlie Goodnights of the old west could know what the region would turn into (especially Austin ), they would have left some Comanches just to keep things wild, or at least to allow another mechanism to weed out stupid people.

We hear the same justifications now; we need jobs, we need to develop our resources, we need PROGRESS which might all be true, but we, as hunters, outdoorsmen, and gun owners (or at least those that subscribe to or appreciate the more carnal side of our natural world) are kind of like the new modern Comanche (in a lose philosophical sense). There is always a price to pay for progress. On that note, I find it interesting that public land was a "progressive" idea to begin with but the progressive movement overall is what ended up "sanitizing" the west in the first place.

Maybe it is inevitable since (most of) our politicians work not for better representation, but instead struggle to maintain power.

I just don't know. Been thinking about this too much but wanted to put these thoughts down.

 

[Againstthewind]

lol, WHOOOSH! That is either the sound of all this either going over my head or through my ears.

 

[desertbull]

GREAT WORK!

I lost the insanely awesome elk country I hunted for years due to this very type of land swap. Land that would BLOW YOUR MINDS!!!

Each year, we had encounters with Monster bulls (one we know was way over 400+) and then it happened...the signs went up and we were forever locked out.

PROTECT YOUR LANDS................I lose sleep over the sounds of those cool September mornings...Thanks Eastmans!

 

[highplainsdrifter]

GREAT WORK!

I lost the insanely awesome elk country I hunted for years due to this very type of land swap. Land that would BLOW YOUR MINDS!!!

Each year, we had encounters with Monster bulls (one we know was way over 400+) and then it happened...the signs went up and we were forever locked out.

PROTECT YOUR LANDS................I lose sleep over the sounds of those cool September mornings...Thanks Eastmans!

I would also like to thank the Eastmans for providing this forum which is an excellent vehicle for discussing issues like this!!